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How is a man supposed to find a woman in the 21st century

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  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 37,589 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    Ok. I think we should move away from the PUA stuff. If ye would be so kind...

    We sat again for an hour and a half discussing maps and figures and always getting back to that most damnable creation of the perverted ingenuity of man - the County of Tyrone.

    H. H. Asquith



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Ok. I think we should move away from the PUA stuff. If ye would be so kind...

    but what if its how you get a girl in the 21st century?

    (kidding, kidding)


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,754 ✭✭✭Deebles McBeebles


    What are the actual rules of posting pictures of yourself or your partner on this forum? I never see anyone do it so I assumed it was banned? In fact I seem to remember a whole thread for it called "Know your boardsies" which I now can not even find any more? Was it deleted?

    ^^^
    Maybe our mod friend could answer?


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,293 ✭✭✭pinkyeye


    best tip is never ever be or have anything to do with PUA culture

    What's PUA?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 10,375 ✭✭✭✭kunst nugget


    pinkyeye wrote: »
    What's PUA?

    Portuguese for knobend.


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  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    pick up artistry

    its

    and i dont mean to offend anyone

    its somewhat aligned with a worrying trend towards categorisation of women and men as easily-simplified carbon copies that react in predictable ways to certain situations and stimuli and can therefore teach you how to get the laydeez eatin out of your palm with a few neat tricks.

    its not all toxic, id say myself that its close enough to a gateway to toxic as makes no difference


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,733 ✭✭✭OMM 0000


    I see PUA as faking confidence and charm.

    And perhaps you can fake it 'til you make it.

    But I feel PUA misunderstands women.

    Most women just want a "normal" guy.

    Reliable, doesn't look like ****, has a future, makes her feel happy and safe.

    Almost every guy can become this guy with a little bit of effort.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,733 ✭✭✭OMM 0000


    Pepperpans, out of respect I watched the entire video.

    I have serious issues with this video.

    These are my comments:

    1. "She pretends she loses interest in the conversation".

    Women don't play this game. This entire logic ("When she pretends to lose interest in you") is psycho. I've chatted up literally hundreds of women, and no woman has ever done this. Women don't pretend to lose interest in you. WTF. This PUA guy does not understand women.

    Some of the things he says are correct: be masculine, be confident.

    What he doesn't understand is real confidence, real charm, real humour is what makes women like you. The way you get this is through self improvement, therapy, education, class, etc.

    2. "Use teasing jokes to bring her back to her childhood schoolyard teasing mentality".

    No, just no. Be funny like a normal human without the manipulation.

    Humour should be normal, it should not be about manipulation whatsoever. It should not be about trying to "create feelings of attraction".

    So ****ing creepy.

    "You're the prettiest, no the second prettiest, no the third prettiest, no not at all". This is just rude and weird.

    The guy in the video comes across as really unattractive. Fake, creepy, just not attractive.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,733 ✭✭✭OMM 0000


    ^--- seems the post with the video was deleted.


  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,101 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    I fully understand why our own Ancapailldorcha has asked to get away from this whole PUA thing(never mind that it attracts the reregs like flies to poo), but too many men are getting into this stuff, with a few going right down the rabbit hole and guys need to be warned to put on their cynicism hats.

    Now if a bloke looking to up his chances - and I'd reckon in 90% of cases said blokes just want a girlfriend, not to become whoremasters - watches these vids on youtube, be 100% aware they are adverts. Adverts for "systems" these shillers want to sell to you.

    They usually take the approach of email spam. Fire out dozens of these vids hoping a percentage will stick. They get the guys in by promising "free" advice. Though almost always there's a twist of you should buy their e-book, sign up for some subscription, even sign up for so called boot camps where you can learn to BangSuperModelsOnTheStreet™ or whatever. A few use well tried out marketing techniques designed to make guys feel like some secret group who know the Secret™. These are tremendously effective hooks for lonely guys. Some get into it to the point of obsession. QV our rereg guys who sign up daily to this site and others. And these chancers with the bigger setups can make a pretty penny from it(or did as the market seems swamped now).

    Note that the more established companies nearly always tell men that looks don't really matter, neither does money, or height etc, but personality and attitude and with their Course of Power Dynamics™ or whatever, you'll be able to get the women you want. This is utter bollocks. Of course they say this as the men with looks, money and height are generally not concerned about this stuff. If looks didn't matter then why do the vast majority of couples match in objective physical attractiveness? We're not talking about fat billionaires with blonde dolly birds half their age waiting for them to tap out for the will, we're talking about ordinary people. Now no doubt a few men - and it's almost always men - will chime in and say their girlfriend is way out of their league, but I will bet the farm that if you asked random men and women they'd rate them the same or damned close to it. There have been a lot of studies done on this down the years that back this up. Looking back on my own relationship history, though at the time I thought they were the most gorgeous women on earth and they were to me, objectively they were about the same level as me. With one exception who was a peg above me, but she had more screws loose than a Mongolian made scooter in an earthquake, so..

    Thats another thing with these chancers, a large number of these pickup bullshit artists are objectively OK, physically attractive, even some good looking men. Men can be often very bad at judging physical attractiveness in other men so don't spot this. Example. After I had a quick google on the phenomenon, though there were plenty of small scale books before on how to pick up girls(How to win friends and influence people was a major best seller along the same lines), the current crop came out of a group of guys in the early noughties who as young lads often will went out to clubs and tried to stand out from the crowd. The more geeky of them decided to see if there was a technique that would add to a guys chances and off it went. Now back then they were doing stuff like wearing purple hats and yellow pants to stand out, but one of their leaders was a guy nicknamed Mystery. All daft pants and hats. This is him minus all that stuff.

    tumblr_n4au7lkD6i1rryqc9o1_500.jpg

    He is an objectively physically attractive man. He was also very tall(I presume he still is..). Quite the number of these chancers are similar, though usually not obviously "handsome" as far as many men think that is.

    Then they may show videos of their Technique3000™ on the street or in the club. Many of these have been shown to be fakes using actresses. Not a shock. Or encounters that were nothing to do with romance or getting a date. Hell, I could get someone to video me in Paris or wherever, pretending to be an Irish tourist asking some good looking woman for directions. Most people are polite and generally like having a chat, particularly if it's someone out of the ordinary, mute the sound to "preserve her privacy"(and cover what's actually going on) have a bit of a laugh with her and the video could look like I was going great guns. Try this say twenty times in a day and I'm 100% certain I could get a set of "pickup" videos that would have a load of lads thinking my "system" worked.

    Now some of this stuff does work with women. Some women, a minority. The honest guys in the game will tell people their spiel works with maybe 1-50 or 1-100. Even the most threadbare net will catch a fish if you cast it wide enough.

    TL;DR? While there is some truth in what they may say, said truth is heavily preselected on the women it works for, but the vast majority of their spiel is a sales pitch to buy into their bullsh1t and give them money. Buyer beware. Now it can easily be argued many men do need some guidance, but this really isn't it.

    Rejoice in the awareness of feeling stupid, for that’s how you end up learning new things. If you’re not aware you’re stupid, you probably are.



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  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,101 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    OMM 0000 wrote: »

    The guy in the video comes across as really unattractive. Fake, creepy, just not attractive.
    I'm sure OMM, but who are his audience likely to be? Guys who feel unattractive and have been accused of being "creepy" because they have not so great social skills. Which is more likely to get more suckers buying into it; An obviously handsome Pearce Brosnan lookalike telling them they can be like him with women, or an average looking yahoo spouting stuff they might themselves?

    Aside: Something I'be noticed down the years. if you look at adverts aimed at women, 9 times outa 10 they show extremely attractive women selling the product. Y'know the ones slimming ads with a lass of 17 that a stiff breeze would carry away, anti aging creams on a 22 year old model and the like. When plus sized models hit magazine covers they almost always trend low in sales. Men seem to have a different approach, so you have ads for armpit spray where an ordinary enough pudgy looking bloke gets hordes of women throwing themselves at him. :D Generally men seem to want to see a stand in for themselves in adverts, whereas women want to see what they might become if they buy Special K or whatever.

    Rejoice in the awareness of feeling stupid, for that’s how you end up learning new things. If you’re not aware you’re stupid, you probably are.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,733 ✭✭✭OMM 0000


    Wibbs wrote: »
    I'm sure OMM, but who are his audience likely to be? Guys who feel unattractive and have been accused of being "creepy" because they have not so great social skills. Which is more likely to get more suckers buying into it; An obviously handsome Pearce Brosnan lookalike telling them they can be like him with women, or an average looking yahoo spouting stuff they might themselves?

    That's a good point. "If he can do it so can I".

    Wibbs wrote: »
    Aside: Something I'be noticed down the years. if you look at adverts aimed at women, 9 times outa 10 they show extremely attractive women selling the product. Y'know the ones slimming ads with a lass of 17 that a stiff breeze would carry away, anti aging creams on a 22 year old model and the like. When plus sized models hit magazine covers they almost always trend low in sales. Men seem to have a different approach, so you have ads for armpit spray where an ordinary enough pudgy looking bloke gets hordes of women throwing themselves at him. :D Generally men seem to want to see a stand in for themselves in adverts, whereas women want to see what they might become if they buy Special K or whatever.

    Women aren't complicated. Just like men aren't complicated.

    Here's a scenario:

    Man is not fat. (This is important; lose weight if you're fat).

    He grows his hair long, and shaves the back and sides. Think Brad Pitt in Fury.

    Stubble.

    Casual suit jack (dark colour).

    T-shirt (dark colour).

    Jeans (dark colour).

    Converse or simple vans or sand boots.

    He looks good.

    Women will be attracted to him.

    Now he just needs to not be a weirdo.

    Therapy, proper socialisation, meditation, honesty.

    It's not rocket science.

    It might take 6 months, it might take 2 years, but it's 100% doable for almost every guy.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,733 ✭✭✭OMM 0000


    What often happens in a flirtatious interaction between a man and woman is the woman will test the man, whether it concious or subconcious. She wants to know that his confidence is genuine, that he's not faking it. So she might make a comment to see if he's phased by it. If he does become phased by it she'll lose whatever attraction she had for him. If he takes it in his stride and has fun with it the attraction is usually amplified.

    Bull****. Women don't test men.

    Men just need to be themselves.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 10,070 ✭✭✭✭pq0n1ct4ve8zf5


    What often happens in a flirtatious interaction between a man and woman is the woman will test the man, whether it concious or subconcious. She wants to know that his confidence is genuine, that he's not faking it. So she might make a comment to see if he's phased by it. If he does become phased by it she'll lose whatever attraction she had for him. If he takes it in his stride and has fun with it the attraction is usually amplified.

    Change about three nouns, leave the general content and tone as it is and you've got you some David Attenborough voiceover right there.

    I'm picturing...lizards or some kind of vole.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,733 ✭✭✭OMM 0000


    I can maybe accept women might test men who are incredibly weak and fake...

    But that's a good thing.

    Fix yourself, become a real person, have feelings, look OK, have passion and drive. Do this for you and the women will follow.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,179 ✭✭✭Viscount Aggro


    "Fix yourself, become a real person, have feelings, look OK, have passion and drive. Do this for you and the women will follow"

    Really... what if you have a head like a smashed turnip?
    Its all about looks these days.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,733 ✭✭✭OMM 0000


    "Fix yourself, become a real person, have feelings, look OK, have passion and drive. Do this for you and the women will follow"

    Really... what if you have a head like a smashed turnip?
    Its all about looks these days.

    Looks are super important, but you can control this too.

    Get fit and strong.

    Hairstyle.

    Good clothes.

    Good posture.

    You can even hire a photographer to take good photos of you.

    You have to make an effort.


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,634 ✭✭✭Doctor Jimbob


    "Fix yourself, become a real person, have feelings, look OK, have passion and drive. Do this for you and the women will follow"

    Really... what if you have a head like a smashed turnip?
    Its all about looks these days.

    Find someone else with a head like a smashed turnip. Simple.

    I'm half joking, but the fact some people seem to feel entitled to someone objectively more attractive than them is baffling.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,858 ✭✭✭Church on Tuesday


    OMM 0000 wrote: »
    Bull****. Women don't test men.

    Men just need to be themselves.

    They absolutely do.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,733 ✭✭✭OMM 0000


    They absolutely do.

    No they don't.

    They might test losers and fakers, but they don't test men.

    Do you think men test women?


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  • Posts: 5,121 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Aye. Was debating it. Will have to wait until next month. Not sure about the workplace thing though. Meant to be unprofessional, no?
    Maybe they meant - go for it - get the seven cats.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,858 ✭✭✭Church on Tuesday


    OMM 0000 wrote: »
    No they don't.

    They might test losers and fakers, but they don't test men.

    Do you think men test women?

    They won't be able to root out the 'losers' and 'fakers' unless they do test men.

    A lot of the time it's just to see if you're a dry ****e or can't take a joke.

    No one wants to go out with someone who's moody or touchy.

    Yes, men test women also. That's the men who know what they want from a relationship longterm.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,733 ✭✭✭OMM 0000


    They won't be able to root out the 'losers' and 'fakers' unless they do test men.

    A lot of the time it's just to see if you're a dry ****e or can't take a joke.

    No one wants to go out with someone who's moody or touchy.

    Yes, men test women also. That's the men who know what they want from a relationship longterm.

    I'm sorry, but this is nonsense.

    How many women have you been with?


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,858 ✭✭✭Church on Tuesday


    OMM 0000 wrote: »
    I'm sorry, but this is nonsense.

    How many women have you been with?

    In terms of relationships?


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,733 ✭✭✭OMM 0000


    In terms of relationships?

    Relationships + sex.

    Thanks for your honesty btw.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,858 ✭✭✭Church on Tuesday


    OMM 0000 wrote: »
    Relationships + sex.

    Thanks for your honesty btw.

    Two longterm relationships the last of which ended some three years ago, single since.

    I'm not going to disclose how much sex I've had to a stranger on the internet.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,733 ✭✭✭OMM 0000


    Two longterm relationships the last of which ended some three years ago, single since.

    I'm not going to disclose how much sex I've had to a stranger on the internet.

    My opinion is you need to drop the idea of women "testing" you, and you need to stop testing women.

    It's not normal.

    Be the best version of you (as best as you can) and put yourself out there.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,858 ✭✭✭Church on Tuesday


    OMM 0000 wrote: »
    My opinion is you need to drop the idea of women "testing" you, and you need to stop testing women.

    It's not normal.

    Be the best version of you (as best as you can) and put yourself out there.

    But you said yourself only a few posts back that women test to root out 'losers' and 'fakers'?

    I think women test to see if a man is, basically, sound.

    I don't think there is any sinister motive at play.

    Y'know it's a bit like when you see a cat and they are a bit dubious at first, but when you show you mean no harm and just want to have the craic they soon warm to you.

    Same thing.

    Also I never said I test women myself.

    I think I'm pretty awesome as is tbh; I don't really need a relationship to feel any better about myself, that would ultimately defeat the purpose.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,733 ✭✭✭OMM 0000


    But you said yourself only a few posts back that women test to root out 'losers' and 'fakers'?

    I think women test to see if a man is, basically, sound.

    I don't think there is any sinister motive at play.

    Y'know it's a bit like when you see a cat and they are a bit dubious at first, but when you show you mean no harm and just want to have the craic they soon warm to you.

    Same thing.

    Also I never said I test women myself.

    I think I'm pretty awesome as is tbh; I don't really need a relationship to feel any better about myself, that would ultimately defeat the purpose.

    In fairness I didn't say that. I said I can accept women might do that. (I've never personally seen it.)

    I think men have this weird idea of women from movies, YouTube and other sources.

    Women have weird ideas of men too.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,858 ✭✭✭Church on Tuesday


    OMM 0000 wrote: »
    In fairness I didn't say that. I said I can accept women might do that. (I've never personally seen it.)

    I think men have this weird idea of women from movies, YouTube and other sources.

    Women have weird ideas of men too.

    It's pretty much the same thing.


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