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Ana Kriegel - Boys A & B found guilty [Mod: Do NOT post identifying information]

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Comments

  • #662
    GT_TDI_150
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,917 ✭✭✭✭GT_TDI_150


    Zeek12 wrote: »
    I'm not disputing the kids can be very resourceful (actually I just made that exact point in my post).

    But does this technology still make the school primarily responsible for stopping bullying on social media platforms?

    Imo parents have a responsibility to educate themselves on what tech their kids are using and what they get up to.
    It can't be all down to the school

    Agree 100% but parents are getting left behind with all the tech.... I do the checking, locking down apps devices etc as my wife can barely drive the coffee machine, and she will freely admit this. But there are couples where both parents are tech illiterate


  • #663
    El_Bee
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 933 ✭✭✭El_Bee


    The handwaving of the effects of hardcore pornography on the minds of 12 year old boys and "sure there's nothing we can do just forget about it" attitude that I'm seeing popping up in this thread is depressing as it is disturbing.


  • #664
    shesty
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 6,917 Mod ✭✭✭✭shesty


    jmayo wrote: »
    I somewhat agree.
    Maybe it is too many late nights watching Criminal Minds, but why didn't Boy A turn on Boy B ?

    Some say Boy B was a bit simple, but I agree with others and think the opposite.
    If he was supposedly simple he would have collapsed at the start and admitted everything.

    He was calculating in his lies, and only included things when he had no other choice.
    The statement from Boy A where he said Boy B had wanted to kill Ana was a calculated move to try drop him in it, but it dropped himself in it in that he previous knowledge ahead of the event.

    He tried to spin his way out of it and this isn't spinning to a teacher you know or a parent.
    This is spinning in multiple garda interview.

    I think he was confident he could spin himself out of blame and dump A in it.

    A on the other hand was bang to rights and just said nothing.
    Why never say anything about B?
    Why the loyalty or could he be the mastermind after all?

    Why didn't or can't his parents convince their son to tell all to maybe absolve him of some of the blame ?

    There is a weird dynamic at play here and the Dads, maybe mums have some questions to answer as well.

    I actually think Boy A is the really dangerous one.He did it,consciously knew he did it, didn't try to deny it.

    I am not for one second trying to clear Boy B.He saw what was happening, he ran away and he said nothing.He lied and lied and lied.To me that is the sign of someone who is a seriously weak and maybe terribly immature child.Not realising or accepting that there were going to be consequences out of what had happened?Not realising how stupid he sounded trying to lie his way through a number of Garda interviews?Running away and not teling someone what was going on, or trying to stop it?? (I can't get over that bit, how he saw it, could have stopped it, yet turned and ran??).It says an awful lot about his character and sorry, about how he has been brought up, if that is what he thinks is the way to deal with bad things.He is dangerous in a different way to me because he is weak, easily led and clearly doesn't think all that deeply (despite the intricate lying).I still think he deserves what he got, even just to open his eyes to the reality of the world and realise there are consequences for your behaviour.But boy A is the one I would consider to have fairly serious psychological problems.


  • #665
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 11,195 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    El_Bee wrote: »
    The handwaving of the effects of hardcore pornography on the minds of 12 year old boys and "sure there's nothing we can do just forget about it" attitude that I'm seeing popping up in this thread is depressing as it is disturbing.

    the constant linking of it to this horrific crime is ridiculous


  • #666
    Boggles
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 43,359 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    Seathrun66 wrote: »
    Psychologist's testimony for Boy B was excluded. That'll form the basis of an appeal. Doctor had stated that he had PTSD as a result of witnessing the attack and was trying to cover himself with lies. Had he known she was about to be killed then why collect her from the house then walk through a park with lots of CCTV. He didn't represent himself well but he may have been a stupid kid manipulated by a more evil one. We may never know. But I think he'll be freed on appeal.

    The judge certainly erred in not allowing the testimony IMO. His reasons for not allowing it are also pretty weak.

    Basically he said all the jurors at some point were teenagers so they should so they should understand teenagers.

    Also this my caught my eye.
    The doctor said the boy's first experience of confinement was when he was detained after being arrested for murder. He was the only child ever to request Lego in the detention centre.


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  • #667
    tupenny
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,439 ✭✭✭tupenny


    Seathrun66 wrote: »
    Psychologist's testimony for Boy B was excluded. That'll form the basis of an appeal. Doctor had stated that he had PTSD as a result of witnessing the attack and was trying to cover himself with lies. Had he known she was about to be killed then why collect her from the house then walk through a park with lots of CCTV. He didn't represent himself well but he may have been a stupid kid manipulated by a more evil one. We may never know. But I think he'll be freed on appeal.

    Ffs


  • #668
    Edgware
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,874 ✭✭✭Edgware


    The pupils in her school didn't make her life easy either. They have a lot to answer for


  • #669
    El_Bee
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 933 ✭✭✭El_Bee


    Edgware wrote: »
    The pupils in her school didn't make her life easy either. They have a lot to answer for


    I think the fact she was so isolated and victimized contributed to her being singled out by the two.


  • #670
    Suckit
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,211 ✭✭✭✭Suckit


    shesty wrote: »
    I actually think Boy A is the really dangerous one.He did it,consciously knew he did it, didn't try to deny it.

    I am not for one second trying to clear Boy B.He saw what was happening, he ran away and he said nothing.He lied and lied and lied.To me that is the sign of someone who is a seriously weak and maybe terribly immature child.Not realising or accepting that there were going to be consequences out of what had happened?Not realising how stupid he sounded trying to lie his way through a number of Garda interviews?Running away and not teling someone what was going on, or trying to stop it?? (I can't get over that bit, how he saw it, could have stopped it, yet turned and ran??).It says an awful lot about his character and sorry, about how he has been brought up, if that is what he thinks is the way to deal with bad things.He is dangerous in a different way to me because he is weak, easily led and clearly doesn't think all that deeply (despite the intricate lying).I still think he deserves what he got, even just to open his eyes to the reality of the world and realise there are consequences for your behaviour.But boy A is the one I would consider to have fairly serious psychological problems.



    I don't think Boy B did run away. I think that was one of his lies.

    To me that makes a huge difference. I think Boy B gave boy A the masking tape for a reason.
    I think Boy B got off on it, and I think the Garda investigating think that too.


  • #671
    petrolcan
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 898 ✭✭✭petrolcan


    Edgware wrote: »
    The pupils in her school didn't make her life easy either. They have a lot to answer for

    Not just them but the school itself after reading that RTE report.


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  • #672
    Larbre34
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,805 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    the constant linking of it to this horrific crime is ridiculous

    It isn't ridiculous.

    Hundreds of thousands of young people see porn from fairly harmless to extreme perversion and they have the mental capacity to deal with it, compartmentalise it and not let it become an obsession and a negative actor in their lives.

    But these two and some others you hear about in the news around the world cannot and do not deal with it in the right way and it contributes to crimes like this.

    Tell Ana's parents the link is ridiculous. No? Thought not.


  • #673
    El_Bee
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 933 ✭✭✭El_Bee


    Deleted User wrote: »
    the constant linking of it to this horrific crime is ridiculous


    Why?


  • #674
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 45,738 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    There's porn and then there's child and animal porn. Bit of a difference tbf.


  • #675
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 11,195 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Larbre34 wrote: »
    It isn't ridiculous.

    Hundreds of thousands of young people see porn from fairly harmless to extreme perversion and they have the mental capacity to deal with it, compartmentalise it and not let it become an obsession and a negative actor in their lives.

    But these two and some others you hear about in the news around the world cannot and do not deal with it in the right way and it contributes to crimes like this.

    Tell Ana's parents the link is ridiculous. No? Thought not.

    you think them being in a .00001% strengthens your argument

    and that last line is also ridiculous.

    pornography has existed a long long time and sadistic murder has existed a long long time and hanging an agenda on these instances will never not be lamentable behaviour.


  • #676
    Hal3000
    Closed Accounts Posts: 818 ✭✭✭Hal3000


    Edgware wrote: »
    The pupils in her school didn't make her life easy either. They have a lot to answer for

    Nothing will happen and nothing will change. Our leaders have no balls to change anything and as a nation neither do we. We've become nutured by Netflix and ruled by snowflakes who are afraid to do anything that may infringe someone's civil liberties. Best you can do is be internet savvy and teach your kid human values and hope they stick. Don't expect anything else from anyone anymore especially schools or Governments.


  • #677
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 21,290 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    El_Bee wrote: »
    The handwaving of the effects of hardcore pornography on the minds of 12 year old boys and "sure there's nothing we can do just forget about it" attitude that I'm seeing popping up in this thread is depressing as it is disturbing.

    I reckon that somewhere in the future our society will look back at the free internet access afforded to children of today with the same disdain that we look back on the past “culture” of mother & baby homes etc etc. Prople will be asking “How did they let that happen? Why did they give full internet search devices to children?” The future may bring restricted and supervised child-friendly information division(s) and networks on the web which cannot be linked into broader internet searches, and it may become a crime to knowingly allow a child to acquire a full internet search device. There was a time children were sent up chimneys... child protection is a work in progress.


  • #678
    Fan of Netflix
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,167 ✭✭✭Fan of Netflix


    Deleted User wrote: »
    the constant linking of it to this horrific crime is ridiculous
    Its absurd to claim there is no link. Boy A was watching extreme pornography and other things very similar to the actual crime


  • #679
    Stop moaning ffs
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,850 ✭✭✭Stop moaning ffs


    McCrack wrote: »
    I would think so, they will be a target in there

    Just saw a picture of it. It looks like a small enough facility. Guess it woukd Be east enough to separate them from each other just stagger their meal times and excercise time. I was told these kids in there are free to walk around though and it’s more like a youth hall than a prison.

    How in the name of god will they do this?


  • #680
    Hal3000
    Closed Accounts Posts: 818 ✭✭✭Hal3000


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    I reckon that somewhere in the future our society will look back at the free internet access afforded to children of today with the same disdain that we look back on the past “culture” of mother & baby homes etc etc. Prople will be asking “How did they let that happen? Why did they give full internet search devices to children?” The future may bring restricted and supervised child-friendly information division(s) and networks on the web which cannot be linked into broader internet searches, and it may become a crime to knowingly allow a child to acquire a full internet search device. There was a time children were sent up chimneys... child protection is a work in progress.

    Until big Corp have earned their moneys worth from advertising it will remain free to everyone.


  • #681
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 12,694 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    GT_TDI_150 wrote: »
    Agree 100% but parents are getting left behind with all the tech.... I do the checking, locking down apps devices etc as my wife can barely drive the coffee machine, and she will freely admit this. But there are couples where both parents are tech illiterate

    The mere fact that you are making an attempt to monitor it is part of it even if you do no succeed you are signaling to them the type of behavior you would like form them while I presume talking to them about it and being realistic that they may be hiding some things from you.

    Its the parents who are not making any attempt to monitor it and dont seem to care that are the issue.


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  • #682
    knucklehead6
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,808 ✭✭✭knucklehead6


    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=107086571&postcount=690

    While we may not be able to identify publicly the two boys involved in this case here’s someone we can identify.

    The absolute thanks whore who posted this, acting like he’s all in the know.

    The only thing is that it was posted a few days before
    her actual funeral where her family requested colour and sparkle.


  • #683
    Nerdlingr
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,381 ✭✭✭Nerdlingr


    Read that Irish Times article and found it interesting how when it was a missing persons case at the start, gardai used PULSE to find out Boy B's address.


  • #684
    Stop moaning ffs
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,850 ✭✭✭Stop moaning ffs


    optogirl wrote: »
    Surely this was more likely to have been defensive wounds from Ana?

    Hadn’t read the full report when I posted. but that seems likely.

    But it is odd he and his father were walking near enough by when the gardai searching came across them.

    I don’t have kids but what 13 year old goes for a walk with his da? especially one internet obsessed and fond of fvcked up videos about torture?

    Something doesn’t add up.


  • #685
    Larbre34
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,805 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    you think them being in a .00001% strengthens your argument

    and that last line is also ridiculous.

    pornography has existed a long long time and sadistic murder has existed a long long time and hanging an agenda on these instances will never not be lamentable behaviour.

    Of course it is. One dead teenage girl having been beaten and sexually assaulted is too many. How many is enough for you, 0.01%, 1%, ten? Its churlish and obtuse of you to ignore the ubiquity of hardcore violent and demeaning porn since the advent of the internet and just shrug at the history of sadistic murder. Go and read the reports allowed today of the phones of these two creatures that was not presented in evidence, search histories of massive depravity and one of them had 5,000 porn images on it for **** sake.

    Able to freely access dark corners of the internet unhindered, but too stupid and naive to wipe a smartphone after committing murder. That tells society all it needs to know.


  • #686
    iamwhoiam
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,409 ✭✭✭✭iamwhoiam


    shesty wrote: »
    I actually think Boy A is the really dangerous one.He did it,consciously knew he did it, didn't try to deny it.

    I am not for one second trying to clear Boy B.He saw what was happening, he ran away and he said nothing.He lied and lied and lied.To me that is the sign of someone who is a seriously weak and maybe terribly immature child.Not realising or accepting that there were going to be consequences out of what had happened?Not realising how stupid he sounded trying to lie his way through a number of Garda interviews?Running away and not teling someone what was going on, or trying to stop it?? (I can't get over that bit, how he saw it, could have stopped it, yet turned and ran??).It says an awful lot about his character and sorry, about how he has been brought up, if that is what he thinks is the way to deal with bad things.He is dangerous in a different way to me because he is weak, easily led and clearly doesn't think all that deeply (despite the intricate lying).I still think he deserves what he got, even just to open his eyes to the reality of the world and realise there are consequences for your behaviour.But boy A is the one I would consider to have fairly serious psychological problems.

    But are we sure Boy B ran ? He lied about everything and every move so why believe he ran ? For all we know its another lie and maybe he cheered A on ? We don’t know


  • #687
    HalloweenJack
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,512 ✭✭✭HalloweenJack


    There was also something which seemed like a throwaway comment on first reading that Boy A was noticeably limping when he appeared in court the first time.


  • #688
    Flippyfloppy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,746 ✭✭✭Flippyfloppy


    Deleted User wrote: »
    the constant linking of it to this horrific crime is ridiculous

    Yes, somebody think of the violent porn makers.
    Nothing to see here, it obviously has no link whatsoever to this case, in any way shape or form. Even though the murder was of a similarly violent and sexual nature. Perfectly natural for the developing brain of a child to be exposed to.


  • #689
    Hurrache
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,509 ✭✭✭✭Hurrache


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    I reckon that somewhere in the future our society will look back at the free internet access afforded to children of today with the same disdain that we look back on the past “culture” of mother & baby homes etc etc. Prople will be asking “How did they let that happen? Why did they give full internet search devices to children?” The future may bring restricted and supervised child-friendly information division(s) and networks on the web which cannot be linked into broader internet searches, and it may become a crime to knowingly allow a child to acquire a full internet search device. There was a time children were sent up chimneys... child protection is a work in progress.

    Conflicts with the outcry over the opt in to porn with mobile and broadband providers that some people get their knickers into a knot over. Sure, it's not foolproof but it's a start.


  • #690
    gctest50
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,534 ✭✭✭gctest50


    Fan of Netflix wrote: »
    Its absurd to claim there is no link. Boy A was watching extreme pornography and other things very similar to the actual crime


    So if they were watching Deadpool they'd be jumping of buildings n stuff ?

    "Born that way "and you can't seem to accept it looking at that post trying to explain it away

    Boy B put his hands up to his face in disbelief when the hammer dropped

    Boy B's father went out of the courtroom in disbelief and returned to slow-clap

    It's genetics ...... ( or cr@p parenting )


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  • #691
    HalloweenJack
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,512 ✭✭✭HalloweenJack


    iamwhoiam wrote: »
    But are we sure Boy B ran ? He lied about everything and every move so why believe he ran ? For all we know its another lie and maybe he cheered A on ? We don’t know
    I don't see why people are so certain that this is the height of Boy B's involvement when he repeatedly lied to the Guards and only changed his story every time they proved he was lying. He only told them what he knew he had to.


This discussion has been closed.
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