2019 French Open

RosyLily · 09-06-2019 08:31PM

JuanBerrosa wrote: »

Can't see anyone bar Nadal as favourite for Wimbledon.

So obvious he is doping but no one will address it, the ATP seem to be afraid of the guy.
He will literally be still winning the French Open in his 40s.

Farce of a competition

Please read the charter. No doping accusations. Thanks.

BarryD2 · 09-06-2019 09:02PM

At least the women's game is throwing up more variety in recent times in terms of grand slam winners. Very hard to figure how the aging men like Nadal, Djok and Federer are not being more regularly overthrown by a new generation. It's a pity Thiem couldn't keep up the intensity today and take it to 5 sets, you'd suspect Nadal if the physical pressure really came on.

mzungu · 09-06-2019 09:27PM

CFA Level 2 wrote: »

What makes you so certain he won't win another slam?

At this point he is competitive but will always flounder when faced with either Djokovic or Nadal. After his victory at the 2018 AO he has been a bit so-so . QF at Wimbledon (threw it away against Anderson), 4R at the US, ditto the 2019 AO. He played well at RG this year with Wawrinka being his only real test before Nadal hit him off court (no shame there). One swallow does not a summer make. I don't see it happening, but we will know in a few weeks.

CFA Level 2 wrote: »

He's playing well and his best slam begins in a few weeks. People said in 2008, 2010, 2013 and so on that he was finished winning slams. In 2013 on this forum I said he could still win slams again even though he was playing the worst tennis of his career.I was ridiculed enforcement believing he could still win slams in 2013. In 2013 you thought he was finished winning slams. The reason I thought he could win slams again was he began the transition to his new 97 square inch racquet in 2013. For years he handicapped himself with a small racquet, he has since gained a lot of power and consistency to make up for the lack of precision that comes with age.

Ah c'mere. How do you know what I thought back in 2013?

As for the improvement in his game over the past few years being attributed to the switch, Federer himself (and Edberg who was with him around the time of the change) have mentioned it a fair bit so it's no big secret. Sampras mentioned at the time that the switch would give him a more power but it may take a while to get used to it.

As an aside, Sampras regrets not switching during his career.

CFA Level 2 wrote: »

Therefore, I have more insight than most, including you. Your mind is lost in the emotions of the moment, you lose the higher level perspective that I have. Federer can still win slams, 2019 Wimbledon is 50:50 in my book.

I assure you my mind is fine, there are no emotions to get lost in! This is not meant as an insult towards you, but as a general rule I am always wary of people than claim to have things like "insight" or "higher level perspective", and that counts tenfold for the internet.

What you have is an opinion, the same as me, the same as everybody else that posts here and on other forums.

lostcat · 09-06-2019 09:51PM

To be honest I had Djokovic down to win the FO this year, but the pressure looks to have gotten to him.
Nadal will likely catch Federer before he finishes, Djokovic may not. I'd have Djokovic as pretty strong favourite for the other two slams this year, but not winning here may take more out of him than one would think.

Chivito550 · 09-06-2019 09:52PM

Given how useless the younger lads are, you can’t really write off Federer winning Wimbledon. He’s the second favourite being realistic. Nadal is very susceptible to going out early at SW19.

Being second favourite to win a slam closing in on 38 is pretty damn impressive.

His performances at Indian Wells and Miami suggest there’s life in him yet.

Would likely need a Djokovic slip up I feel though. Could happen.

Christy42 · 10-06-2019 07:11AM

JuanBerrosa wrote: »

Who are you referring to here ?
Nadal or Federer has another shot at wimbledon ?

Woops Federer.

Someone said he wouldn't win another. I figure he has a good shot at taking one somewhere if the draw goes his way.

walshb · 10-06-2019 12:59PM

Chivito550 wrote: »

Given how useless the younger lads are, you can’t really write off Federer winning Wimbledon. He’s the second favourite being realistic. Nadal is very susceptible to going out early at SW19.

Being second favourite to win a slam closing in on 38 is pretty damn impressive.

His performances at Indian Wells and Miami suggest there’s life in him yet.

Would likely need a Djokovic slip up I feel though. Could happen.

Yes, if any more slams in RF I think SW19 his best bet.....kind of the easiest slam in the physical sense for his style of play and at his age...as well as it being the surface less suited to Nole than hard court, and less suited to Rafa than clay. But has to be 2019.....2020 I think RF is well cooked.

jr86 · 10-06-2019 01:05PM

Interestingly ND's Wimbledon wins have coincided with 'disappointing' French Open exits

2011 - lost semi as heavy favourite to Federer
2014 - ok in fairness no great shame in ever losing to Nadal at RG, but was a very underwhelming performance after pushing him to the brink the year before
2015 - lost final to Stan as heavy favourite after knocking out Nadal
2018 - lost quarters to unseeded Checcinato as heavy favourite

BazBox · 10-06-2019 01:31PM

JuanBerrosa wrote: »

Can't see anyone bar Nadal as favourite for Wimbledon.

So obvious he is doping but no one will address it, the ATP seem to be afraid of the guy.
He will literally be still winning the French Open in his 40s.

Farce of a competition

Boooooooooo Hoooooooooo

yerwanthere123 · 10-06-2019 01:47PM

JuanBerrosa wrote: »

Can't see anyone bar Nadal as favourite for Wimbledon.

So obvious he is doping but no one will address it, the ATP seem to be afraid of the guy.
He will literally be still winning the French Open in his 40s.

Farce of a competition

Ah, so this is the_monkey's latest account :pac: Tbf, The doping is probably pretty widespread on the tour. If Nadal is, then there's a lot more of them doing it.

walshb · 10-06-2019 01:55PM

yerwanthere123 wrote: »

Ah, so this is the_monkey's latest account :pac: Tbf, The doping is probably pretty widespread on the tour. If Nadal is, then there's a lot more of them doing it.

How do you now it's pretty widespread?

Have you any evidence her to label the sport like so?

yerwanthere123 · 10-06-2019 02:05PM

walshb wrote: »

How do you now it's pretty widespread?

Have you any evidence her to label the sport like so?

Oh I dunno. I find it a little suspicious that most of the time it's only the players in the lower ranks that get caught out. Then there's players who take breaks for months at a time and come back stronger than ever. Players who previously struggled/pulled out of matches becoming phenemonal athletes with seemingly superhuman endurance. The limited drug testing, the fact that on the rare occasions that players are caught they're allowed to try and cover it up (Cilic, Agassi) until it gets leaked elsewhere. The TUE's, those Spanish blood bags that never saw the light of day etc.

walshb · 10-06-2019 03:36PM

This talk of superhuman endurance needs to end....

How exactly are you measuring it?

Superhuman endurance is not needed for tennis matches...

They have plenty breaks and stops during their matches....

What are people seeing here during these matches that somehow leads them to think "has to be PEDs?"

lostcat · 10-06-2019 03:47PM

jr86 wrote: »

Interestingly ND's Wimbledon wins have coincided with 'disappointing' French Open exits

2011 - lost semi as heavy favourite to Federer
2014 - ok in fairness no great shame in ever losing to Nadal at RG, but was a very underwhelming performance after pushing him to the brink the year before
2015 - lost final to Stan as heavy favourite after knocking out Nadal
2018 - lost quarters to unseeded Checcinato as heavy favourite

he has a lot on the line every time he plays the FO - trying to win one, then trying to be the first person to win each slam twice, to hold all at the same time, etc.. as well as just trying to chase down nadal/federer.

the pressure gets to him on occasion (this year, the year stan bet him) and other years he played very well but was just outplayed (federer in 11, the year he took nadal to 9- 7 in the 5th)...

it is to him what the Aus Open is to Nadal, just seems to be the one where all the misfortune aligns

it look slike he just loosens up when he hits the grass afterwards

Pero_Bueno · 10-06-2019 09:10PM

OK leaving out the drug ****e, JuanBerrosa has a point, despite Djokovic winning 3 out of 4 last slams Nadal still dominates.
Nadal would have blasted through AO without dropping a set had it not been for Djokovic in the final.
He would have won Wimbledon easily too.
OK Del Petro beat him in the US but he was injured.

So really Nadal could easily have just won his 5th slam in a row.

As he said and it is a good point, Nadal only needs to worry about Djokovic - literally, just one man - and he is getting weaker.
Nadal is getting stronger.

Djokovic doesn't need to worry about Nadal - but they are now for the foreseeable future seeded to meet in finals only, so he does need to worry about the other lads - the new guys can actually beat Djokovic - not Nadal ironically.

So what we will see happening a lot is someone doing Nadal a favour and dispatch Nole, letting him blast his way through the tournaments.
Can honestly see Nadal winning (easily too) another 5/6 maybe 7 slams.

dominatinMC · 10-06-2019 09:23PM

Christ, there is a lot of ****e being spouted here in the aftermath of Nadals win! Some claiming that Nadal is "stronger" than ever, with the implication being that some sort of doping regime is responsible for this. Come on, be realistic, he is now extremely injury-prone (even more so than before, if that were possible!). His movement and speed around the court have obviously declined with age (as expected), so I'm really not sure where the "stronger" evidence is. From what I've seen of Nadal, he has compensated for his declining movement+speed by improving other aspects of his game (serve, backhand, net-play). I wouldn't necessarily say he is stronger in a physical sense, but has certainly improved weaker elements of his game.

Angliru · 10-06-2019 10:52PM

Not saying any of them are definitely doping or definitely clean but out of the big three Nadal's career progress is probably the most believable. Anyone who thinks he's stronger than ever needs to watch some prime Nadal footage. The guy has lost chunks of every physical attribute he had. He's become a far more shrewd, consistent and polished player technique wise and mentally too which is why he has kept up a high standard when his physical attributed faded. I find it funny people always revert back to the doping whenever Nadal shines again but no mention of Federer's bat**** crazy lazarus revival at a much later age or Djokovic going from 100 to zero to arguably beyond 100 again. Far more extreme turn arounds than Nadal seemingly overcoming niggling injuries, which he still suffers from on occasion.

Now I'm not naive, I understand the tiny margins that exist between great and elite and most of all I'm aware of tennis terrible doping checks, almost as bad as the NBA but anyone cribbing about Nadal and Nadal alone needs their head checked, or at least their eyes.

dominatinMC · 10-06-2019 11:21PM

Angliru wrote: »

Not saying any of them are definitely doping or definitely clean but out of the big three Nadal's career progress is probably the most believable. Anyone who thinks he's stronger than ever needs to watch some prime Nadal footage. The guy has lost chunks of every physical attribute he had. He's become a far more shrewd, consistent and polished player technique wise and mentally too which is why he has kept up a high standard when his physical attributed faded. I find it funny people always revert back to the doping whenever Nadal shines again but no mention of Federer's bat**** crazy lazarus revival at a much later age or Djokovic going from 100 to zero to arguably beyond 100 again. Far more extreme turn arounds than Nadal seemingly overcoming niggling injuries, which he still suffers from on occasion.

Now I'm not naive, I understand the tiny margins that exist between great and elite and most of all I'm aware of tennis terrible doping checks, almost as bad as the NBA but anyone cribbing about Nadal and Nadal alone needs their head checked, or at least their eyes.

100% agree. FWIW, I've always been slightly suspicious of Djokovic, who went from being unable to finish a Bo5 match to being a complete monster in Bo5. All this due to a gluten free diet. Of course, it's entirely plausible that eliminating gluten is the reason for his success, but that always struck me as more suspect than anything Nadal has ever done. I guess we're gone a bit off topic anyway! :pac:

TomSweeney · 11-06-2019 07:39AM

dominatinMC wrote: »

Christ, there is a lot of ****e being spouted here in the aftermath of Nadals win! Some claiming that Nadal is "stronger" than ever, with the implication being that some sort of doping regime is responsible for this. Come on, be realistic, he is now extremely injury-prone (even more so than before, if that were possible!). His movement and speed around the court have obviously declined with age (as expected), so I'm really not sure where the "stronger" evidence is. From what I've seen of Nadal, he has compensated for his declining movement+speed by improving other aspects of his game (serve, backhand, net-play). I wouldn't necessarily say he is stronger in a physical sense, but has certainly improved weaker elements of his game.

Well I understand the "stronger" aspect here as not physically so, but as a player - so he has changed these aspects of his game to make up for his less speed etc.
And overall he is better.
Now whether he'll win 7 more slams ? trolling here ??
But he is on 18 now and should at least equal Federer on FO's alone.

Thats pretty much guaranteed, will most likely surpass him.
I just hope he doesn't win another AO - can't have him having the double career slam.

Chivito550 · 11-06-2019 08:48AM

Pero_Bueno wrote: »

OK leaving out the drug ****e, JuanBerrosa has a point, despite Djokovic winning 3 out of 4 last slams Nadal still dominates.
Nadal would have blasted through AO without dropping a set had it not been for Djokovic in the final.
He would have won Wimbledon easily too.
OK Del Petro beat him in the US but he was injured.

So really Nadal could easily have just won his 5th slam in a row.

As he said and it is a good point, Nadal only needs to worry about Djokovic - literally, just one man - and he is getting weaker.
Nadal is getting stronger.

Djokovic doesn't need to worry about Nadal - but they are now for the foreseeable future seeded to meet in finals only, so he does need to worry about the other lads - the new guys can actually beat Djokovic - not Nadal ironically.

So what we will see happening a lot is someone doing Nadal a favour and dispatch Nole, letting him blast his way through the tournaments.
Can honestly see Nadal winning (easily too) another 5/6 maybe 7 slams.

Bit OTT. Del Potro had the beating of Nadal at Wimbledon last year. There was nothing in it. Nadal got by Thiem by a whisker at the US Open, which battered him up for Del Potro in the semi final (the injury only ever appears when he’s losing!). Cilic wore him down in Oz, and Dimitriov and Zverev bottled it in Oz the previous year.

Going back, Nadal was always more susceptible than Federer and Djokovic to going out to lowly ranked players. His Wimbledon record over the past 7 years shows that.

Chivito550 · 11-06-2019 09:22AM

Nadal has been quoted as saying he has missed 15 grand slams due to injury. This is complete fabrication.

walshb · 11-06-2019 10:04AM

Chivito550 wrote: »

Nadal has been quoted as saying he has missed 15 grand slams due to injury. This is complete fabrication.

Did he miss 15?

josip · 11-06-2019 10:15AM

I lost, I think, around 15 or even more Grand Slams in my career for injuries,” Nadal said.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-tennis-frenchopen-nadal/sanguine-nadal-says-he-is-not-obsessed-about-federers-record-idUSKCN1TA0RX

So perhaps he includes in that 15 those Grand Slams that he competed in while injured but was beaten?
I suspect something was lost in translation here, because even if he believes that, he'd have more cop on than to say it.

BazBox · 11-06-2019 10:56AM

One of the greatest players in his sport, but he only wins cos he is doping:rolleyes:

The man barely has any use left in his knees, has lost a load of muscle and had to change the way he plays. Yeah must be those superdrugs.

His pure dedication to the sport has to be admired. I remember in 2005 when he won the FO, then got knocked out early at Wimbledon by someone and everyone said he was just a Clay player, but he stayed on to watch Federer's run to the final to learn from the best.

walshb · 11-06-2019 11:07AM

BazBox wrote: »

One of the greatest players in his sport, but he only wins cos he is doping:rolleyes:

The man barely has any use left in his knees, has lost a load of muscle and had to change the way he plays. Yeah must be those superdrugs.

His pure dedication to the sport has to be admired. I remember in 2005 when he won the FO, then got knocked out early at Wimbledon by someone and everyone said he was just a Clay player, but he stayed on to watch Federer's run to the final to learn from the best.

Spot on....

There are some knobs out there on this constant cheating/doping angle for anyone who seems to succeed...

Hector Savage · 11-06-2019 11:14AM

walshb wrote: »

Spot on....

There are some knobs out there on this constant cheating/doping angle for anyone who seems to succeed...

ONE poster has mentioned doping ... ONE!!!

walshb · 11-06-2019 11:35AM

Hector Savage wrote: »

ONE poster has mentioned doping ... ONE!!!

It was a general observation I made. Not specifically related to this thread..

Chivito550 · 11-06-2019 12:16PM

josip wrote: »

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-tennis-frenchopen-nadal/sanguine-nadal-says-he-is-not-obsessed-about-federers-record-idUSKCN1TA0RX

So perhaps he includes in that 15 those Grand Slams that he competed in while injured but was beaten?
I suspect something was lost in translation here, because even if he believes that, he'd have more cop on than to say it.

Silly to even say that:

1) If you toe the line, you leave the pre-planned excuses about not being fully fit at home.
2) He gets injured a lot because of his style of play. This is not misfortune. This is self-inflicted.

Chivito550 · 11-06-2019 12:22PM

Spain has a VERY bad culture regarding doping in sport. Operation Puerto was a real eye opener to how endemic the problem is there. Dr Fuentes said he worked with people from all sports, such as football, tennis, athletics, basketball, yet only the cyclists names were ordered to be made public by the judge. There were countless others in the files, but their names were protected, while the cyclists were thrown under a bus. Football is part of life there, and is such a huge part of their economy, it was protected by people in high places. But it is well known high profile footballers from the biggest clubs in La Liga were on his books.

Ditto for tennis players, who were also protected. Does this mean Nadal was one of the names? Not at all. But tennis players were on his books, and Nadal was at the time, the biggest name in Spanish tennis.

None of this proves that Nadal is/was doping, but it should make people ask questions. Why were the cyclists named and shamed while the Spanish stars from football and tennis protected?

BazBox wrote: »

One of the greatest players in his sport, but he only wins cos he is doping:rolleyes:

The man barely has any use left in his knees, has lost a load of muscle and had to change the way he plays. Yeah must be those superdrugs.

His pure dedication to the sport has to be admired. I remember in 2005 when he won the FO, then got knocked out early at Wimbledon by someone and everyone said he was just a Clay player, but he stayed on to watch Federer's run to the final to learn from the best.

Again, I’m not saying that Nadal is or isn’t doping, but you do realise that there are many different benefits from doping? Doping allows somebody to recover from incredibly hard sessions, to go again the next day. Doping allows sportspeople to return from injury faster than if done by natural means. Doping allows somebody to have more endurance so they can last deep into 5 sets and not falter. There’s more to doping than bulking up. Not all dopers look like Ben Johnson.

Dopers train incredibly hard. Many have incredible work ethic. Michelle Smith was one of the hardest trainers there were. The drugs allowed her to train hard.

walshb · 11-06-2019 01:11PM

So, really, this hunch is based off one man who is Spanish, and there are some issues in Spain.....

Nadal is not doping, and likely never did.

Can easily replace his name with Federer or Murray or Nole, and some others....

None are or were doping...

2019 French Open

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