giving your name to the gardai on the street if requested or told.

25-05-2019 12:31AM #1

I consider Ireland to quite lawless maybe excluding dealing with major crimes after the fact that the victim is dead, ( I was once told by a garda when I reported a threat to be stabbed that they could do nothing unless the knife was sticking out of my chest, When in fact I later discovered that such threats can be dealt with in law).
These are two hypothetical situations,
1.what legal requirement is there to give your name or do anything when told by a member of garda siochana if you are just going about your own business not in a motor vehicle and aren't interfering or hindering them in any way and have done nothing,
Personally I prefer to not want to have my name recorded in any kind of interaction with the gardai, I just think easier and safer to avoid them, but if they aren't or won't avoid me and insist?
and
2. If hypothetically and unrelated to (1.) if I was the victim of an assault and defended myself and ended up injuring my attacker sufficiently to stop ( possibly seriously) them and no more and there were no witnesses but I was accused of injury by my assailant at the time, what law requires me to give my name or details to the gardai? I can see in this situation it may be better to do so, and to highlight that I was the victim, I'm cautious in that if i ever have to defend myself (which I think is highly likely as i have had to in the past) because the gardai are ineffective at deterring the kind of people from low level crime but which is usually the type of crime that affects someone who is a victim badly, I knew someone that was held up with a syringe and they seemed to suffer a bit of ongoing anxiety over it. Im concerned I could end up being accused of assault as usually the kind of people that would resort to attacking someone will do so when they are convinced they can only win or achieve what they want, to defend against that requires to be equally or excessively violent in return, something which should not be required but can be.

RobbieMD · 25-05-2019 03:05AM

1874 wrote: »

I consider Ireland to quite lawless maybe excluding dealing with major crimes after the fact that the victim is dead, ( I was once told by a garda when I reported a threat to be stabbed that they could do nothing unless the knife was sticking out of my chest, When in fact I later discovered that such threats can be dealt with in law).
These are two hypothetical situations,
1.what legal requirement is there to give your name or do anything when told by a member of garda siochana if you are just going about your own business not in a motor vehicle and aren't interfering or hindering them in any way and have done nothing,
Personally I prefer to not want to have my name recorded in any kind of interaction with the gardai, I just think easier and safer to avoid them, but if they aren't or won't avoid me and insist?
and
2. If hypothetically and unrelated to (1.) if I was the victim of an assault and defended myself and ended up injuring my attacker sufficiently to stop ( possibly seriously) them and no more and there were no witnesses but I was accused of injury by my assailant at the time, what law requires me to give my name or details to the gardai? I can see in this situation it may be better to do so, and to highlight that I was the victim, I'm cautious in that if i ever have to defend myself (which I think is highly likely as i have had to in the past) because the gardai are ineffective at deterring the kind of people from low level crime but which is usually the type of crime that affects someone who is a victim badly, I knew someone that was held up with a syringe and they seemed to suffer a bit of ongoing anxiety over it. Im concerned I could end up being accused of assault as usually the kind of people that would resort to attacking someone will do so when they are convinced they can only win or achieve what they want, to defend against that requires to be equally or excessively violent in return, something which should not be required but can be.

In relation to your second question, if you defend yourself against an attacker, get the better of them, seriously injure them, no witnesses to provide an independent account and your attacker accuses you of assault and you refuse to give your details to whatever Garda arrives, I imagine you would find yourself arrested on suspicion of assault. But sure whatever floats your boat.

trixiebust · 25-05-2019 03:21AM

Answer to your first question..you do not have to give your name under those circumstances. Happened to me & I refused to give any details & questioned if I was required to do so.

Nothing was done because I refused to give my details.

hullaballoo · 25-05-2019 11:37AM

You're required to give your name if requested by a member of AGS if they have reason to suspect you have committed or may commit a crime.

Would be a pretty toothless police force if they didn't have such a power.

km991148 · 25-05-2019 11:48AM

trixiebust wrote: »

Answer to your first question..you do not have to give your name under those circumstances. Happened to me & I refused to give any details & questioned if I was required to do so.

Nothing was done because I refused to give my details.

hullaballoo wrote: »

You're required to give your name if requested by a member of AGS if they have reason to suspect you have committed or may commit a crime.

Would be a pretty toothless police force if they didn't have such a power.

So you do not need to give a name unless the officer suspects you - that means all they have to do is make up some flimsy excuse?

Either of you have links to back up your statements?

Tell me how · 25-05-2019 11:55AM

km991148 wrote: »

So you do not need to give a name unless the officer suspects you - that means all they have to do is make up some flimsy excuse?

Either of you have links to back up your statements?

Google is relatively new in some places. But it is worth checking out.

From Citizens Information

Most of the powers given to the Gardaí to stop and question members of the public are set out in law (known as statutory powers). There are, however, a number of instances where a Garda is entitled to stop and question you where no statutory power exists. This is known as a common law power.

An example of this would be where a Garda observes you acting suspiciously late at night, in an area where a lot of crimes are being committed. The Garda is entitled to stop you in order to detect and prevent crime. You are under no legal obligation to co-operate with the Garda and the Garda cannot use force to restrain your freedom under common law, short of arresting you.

However, if the Garda has reasonable grounds for suspecting that you committed an offence, the Garda can use a statutory power to demand your name and address. If you refuse to provide them, then the Garda can arrest you.

To counter a previous poster, if a Garda asked you your name and you refused to give it, I would imagine that a judge would accept the Garda's view that that was reasonable grounds to suspect you had committed an offence.

Why would they waste their time asking anyone to provide their name for absolutely no reason.

Victor · 25-05-2019 12:07PM

km991148 wrote: »

So you do not need to give a name unless the officer suspects you - that means all they have to do is make up some flimsy excuse?

Possibly, but the basis for this could be challenged in any subsequent court case.

km991148 · 25-05-2019 05:44PM

Tell me how wrote: »

Google is relatively new in some places. But it is worth checking out.

From Citizens Information

Wow - and did you do that all by yourself? You even managed to do the URL properly with a title and all - go you!

Its a legal discussion forum, so better to deal with fact than generalisations, no? The links were for the benefits of others wandering into the discussion.

Tell me how wrote: »

Why would they waste their time asking anyone to provide their name for absolutely no reason.

Some times people in real life can be pricks as well.

25-05-2019 06:32PM

hullaballoo wrote: »

You're required to give your name if requested by a member of AGS if they have reason to suspect you have committed or may commit a crime.

Would be a pretty toothless police force if they didn't have such a power.

first, thanks for all replies.
They seem pretty toothless most of the time anyway unless dealing with non serious type crimes, I realise they are probably aware prosecutions may go nowhere but I still think that needs to occur and there is a cohort of society fully engaged in that, by which I mean scum. I would never go about looking for trouble, but I think if I was attacked and ended up dealing with it myself, I think I'd prefer not involve AGS if I could just walk away, as is mentioned I could come under suspicion of having started something.
As I suspected was the case, no obligation to give name for no reason, but easy for AGS to circumvent and for it to be made appear if you've nothing to hide why not cooperate, on the second point I think I would give details but wanted to know what the law that gives the power of that.

Gonad · 25-05-2019 06:42PM

A few years ago myself and my ex girlfriend were up the Dublin mountains pulled in just looking up at the sky to see one of the space shuttles going over in the clear night sky .

The guards pulled up and a female Garda asked my ex girlfriend for her full name . As it turned out my ex knew Irish law and proceeded to start calling laws back to the Garda . The ban Garda was fuming and said if my ex didn’t give her full name and address she would be physically removed from the car and brought to the station.

You should have seen the Garda’s face when my ex pointed at her dash cam (they were rare at the time ) and she proceeded to tell her this recording goes directly back to her home pc and it’s stored for 48 hours .

Never seen a Garda get get put back in a box as quick and retreat with her tail between her legs .

Would have been easier to just give her name but by law she didn’t have to and shouldn’t have been put in that position when we were minding our own business .

GM228 · 25-05-2019 09:21PM

hullaballoo wrote: »

You're required to give your name if requested by a member of AGS if they have reason to suspect you have committed or may commit a crime.

Would be a pretty toothless police force if they didn't have such a power.

But it depends on the offence, for example the Criminal Justice (Public Order) Act 1994 probably provides the widest scope for demanding of name or address, but it only applies to certain relevant offences under that Act.

Same with the various Road Traffic Acts which provides that you must give your name and address in certain situations, but not for all.

The common law powers and duties to investigate crimes or make enquiries do not create an equal requirement for the public to assist or comply with them, for example Gardaí have a common law power to stop and talk informally with any member of the public or to make enquiries of any motorist to prevent or investigate a crime, but the common law does not put the public under any obligation to engage with the Guard (unless specifically required under statute).

25-05-2019 10:19PM

Gonad wrote: »

A few years ago myself and my ex girlfriend were up the Dublin mountains pulled in just looking up at the sky to see one of the space shuttles going over in the clear night sky .

The guards pulled up and a female Garda asked my ex girlfriend for her full name . As it turned out my ex knew Irish law and proceeded to start calling laws back to the Garda . The ban Garda was fuming and said if my ex didn’t give her full name and address she would be physically removed from the car and brought to the station.

You should have seen the Garda’s face when my ex pointed at her dash cam (they were rare at the time ) and she proceeded to tell her this recording goes directly back to her home pc and it’s stored for 48 hours .

Never seen a Garda get get put back in a box as quick and retreat with her tail between her legs .

Would have been easier to just give her name but by law she didn’t have to and shouldn’t have been put in that position when we were minding our own business .

There are a lot of videos on YouTube about this very topic. In the US, apparently police must state why they have stopped you when they pull you over- I.e broken tail-light etc however what a lot of police do is ask for ID first, then they tell you. While most people give their name to police they actually don’t have to unless informed

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=yjjofpHTEIw

However there’s very good reasons for people not to give their name until they are informed why they are being stoped - racial profiling is very common in US police forces whereby ethnic minorities are stopped constantly for no apparent reason - here’s a lovely example of racial profiling FAIL

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=iiUkbE_ktHs

And this poor guy has balls of steel standing up for his rights and refusing to give his name - on his own lawn in another racial profiling incident.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=y6Q1qqMp5_o

giving your name to the gardai on the street if requested or told.

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