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3 phase supply

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  • 23-05-2019 12:51pm
    #1
    GreeBo
    Registered Users Posts: 27,120 ✭✭✭✭


    Hey,

    How can I easily confirm if I have a 3 phase supply?


    Moved into an old house and the meter, while new looking, seems much bigger than any I have seen before.
    If it helps the house was built in 1937, has an overhead supply of what seems to be 4 wires and the meter says:

    "AC Meter for 3-phase 3 or 4 wire unbalanced loads"
    "3 x 220/380 V 15-60 A"

    Which to me would imply that it is indeed 3 phase?

    House was owned by an engineer so he may have had it done for some reason...or perhaps they are all just 3 phase around here!

    We are looking to get a charge point for an EV so this would open then doors to a fast charger (I believe!)
    Cheers


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    #2
    2011
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 12,546 Mod ✭✭✭✭2011


    It sounds like you have a 3 phase supply.
    It would help if you posted a picture.


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    #3
    GreeBo
    Registered Users Posts: 27,120 ✭✭✭✭GreeBo


    Here ya go


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    #4
    2011
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 12,546 Mod ✭✭✭✭2011


    Looks like 3 phase.
    To be sure, can you stand back and take another photo that takes in a bit more?

    We should see the cabling arrangement and 3 fuses.


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    #5
    GreeBo
    Registered Users Posts: 27,120 ✭✭✭✭GreeBo


    Sorry added wrong file first time!

    Looks like 3 phase alright so

    Will this have any implications to getting a new fuse board and EV charge point?
    Or dual rate meter?

    Fuse board is old style fuses with one new rcbo/rcd for power shower.


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    #6
    2011
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 12,546 Mod ✭✭✭✭2011


    GreeBo wrote: »
    Looks like 3 phase alright so
    Yes, that is good news.
    Will this have any implications to getting a new fuse board and EV charge point?

    Only positive implications. Larger loads can be connected to 3 phase supplies. I have not installed any EV chargers but I would expect rapid chargers to be 3 phase. If they are not available now it is only a matter of time. This also means that you will have the capacity for multiple chargers.
    Or dual rate meter?

    Can still be done but often they don't make sense. You need to study your load profile and do the maths.
    Fuse board is old style fuses with one new rcbo/rcd for power shower.

    In need of an upgrade so. Also form the photo it looks like the tails from the 3 phase ESB fuses are undersized.

    Get a at least 3 good (recommended) REC to have a look and get a proper quotation would be my advice. Be warned some REC's get confused with 3 phase supplies (typically those that focus on domestic type installations) so go for the those that do commercial / industrial type work.


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    #7
    Risteard81
    Registered Users Posts: 2,567 ✭✭✭Risteard81


    2011 wrote: »
    Be warned some REC's get confused with 3 phase supplies
    They shouldn't. It's very basic stuff.


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    #8
    Bruthal
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,422 ✭✭✭✭Bruthal



    <Mod Snip>

    Mod note:

    The RCD discussion is an important one so it has been split off into another thread.

    This always causes confusion and debate. Please keep it civil.

    2011


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    #9
    GreeBo
    Registered Users Posts: 27,120 ✭✭✭✭GreeBo


    2011 wrote: »
    Yes, that is good news.



    Only positive implications. Larger loads can be connected to 3 phase supplies. I have not installed any EV chargers but I would expect rapid chargers to be 3 phase. If they are not available now it is only a matter of time. This also means that you will have the capacity for multiple chargers.



    Can still be done but often they don't make sense. You need to study your load profile and do the maths.



    In need of an upgrade so. Also form the photo it looks like the tails from the 3 phase ESB fuses are undersized.

    Get a at least 3 good (recommended) REC to have a look and get a proper quotation would be my advice. Be warned some REC's get confused with 3 phase supplies (typically those that focus on domestic type installations) so go for the those that do commercial / industrial type work.

    Cheers

    Care to recommend anyone in Dublin South?
    I've been googling but it's hard to distinguish a good sparks from a good website!


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    #10
    2011
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 12,546 Mod ✭✭✭✭2011


    Risteard81 wrote: »
    They shouldn't.

    Agreed.
    However some REC's (for whatever reason) simply do not understand 3 phase. A sizeable minority simply never worked with it and nobody wants their installation to be used by someone learning this.

    Electricians that are experienced with 3 phase systems are familiar with the products and techniques that work best when building a 3 phase distribution board. Any experienced electrician will tell you that they have seen three phase boards built using only single phase bus bar, with everything connected to one phase, connections strained, 3 phase loads connected to single phase MCBs, undersized earth bars, neutral bars etc.

    Don't tell me you have never had to deal with the aftermath of a REC that clearly did not understand three phase systems?


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    #11
    2011
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 12,546 Mod ✭✭✭✭2011


    GreeBo wrote: »
    Cheers

    Care to recommend anyone in Dublin South?
    I've been googling but it's hard to distinguish a good sparks from a good website!

    No, sorry.

    Ask around, (friends, family etc.) you really need a recommendation from someone that has direct experience with a REC.


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    #12
    LeBash
    Registered Users Posts: 3,518 ✭✭✭LeBash


    GreeBo wrote: »
    Sorry added wrong file first time!

    Looks like 3 phase alright so

    Will this have any implications to getting a new fuse board and EV charge point?
    Or dual rate meter?

    Fuse board is old style fuses with one new rcbo/rcd for power shower.

    You'll be able to install a 22kw 3 phase charger assuming you dont have a powered shower without too much hassle.

    Most EVs only charge at 7kw at the moment thought, so single phase 32 amp.

    The EV thread will be able to help more but afaik only the Zoe charges at 22kw which is a pity.


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    #13
    GreeBo
    Registered Users Posts: 27,120 ✭✭✭✭GreeBo


    LeBash wrote: »
    You'll be able to install a 22kw 3 phase charger assuming you dont have a powered shower without too much hassle.

    Most EVs only charge at 7kw at the moment thought, so single phase 32 amp.

    The EV thread will be able to help more but afaik only the Zoe charges at 22kw which is a pity.

    There is a powered shower in the place (I'm only moved in under a week)
    Would I not still be able to get a fast charger with the 3-phase despite the shower?


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    #14
    2011
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 12,546 Mod ✭✭✭✭2011


    GreeBo wrote: »
    There is a powered shower in the place (I'm only moved in under a week)
    Would I not still be able to get a fast charger with the 3-phase despite the shower?

    It won't be an issue.
    Worst case scenario (depending on whether the shower is the instantaneous type or not) a priority unit may be required to ensure that the combined load does not exceed what can be supplied. This would just mean that the charger would disconnect when the shower is used. Not a big deal.


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    #15
    GreeBo
    Registered Users Posts: 27,120 ✭✭✭✭GreeBo


    2011 wrote: »
    It won't be an issue.
    Worst case scenario (depending on whether the shower is the instantaneous type or not) a priority unit may be required to ensure that the combined load does not exceed what can be supplied. This would just mean that the charger would disconnect when the shower is used. Not a big deal.

    Yeah I was looking at the Zappi since it will drop the draw based on what else is being used...but if it doesnt do fast charge then its not much use to me.

    also will be getting a second EV within the year (though with a fast charger I wont need another point)

    /edit turns out the Hyundai Ionic only has single phase charger on board.... :(


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    #16
    irishgrover
    Registered Users Posts: 2,496 ✭✭✭irishgrover


    2011 wrote: »
    It won't be an issue.
    Worst case scenario (depending on whether the shower is the instantaneous type or not) a priority unit may be required to ensure that the combined load does not exceed what can be supplied. This would just mean that the charger would disconnect when the shower is used. Not a big deal.

    just to confirm this. I had a priority switch installed when getting a 32amp charger installed (non 3 phase house). When shower goes on charger stops, when shower stops, charger starts again.... never had a problem with it...


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    #17
    LeBash
    Registered Users Posts: 3,518 ✭✭✭LeBash


    GreeBo wrote: »
    There is a powered shower in the place (I'm only moved in under a week)
    Would I not still be able to get a fast charger with the 3-phase despite the shower?

    It's not a massive deal, it can be done with a priority unit. If your car or potential car will only charge at 7kw, get a single phase unit and put it on another phase, then you dont need to worry about it.


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    #18
    2011
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 12,546 Mod ✭✭✭✭2011


    LeBash wrote: »
    It's not a massive deal, it can be done with a priority unit. If your car or potential car will only charge at 7kw, get a single phase unit and put it on another phase, then you dont need to worry about it.

    You are right of course in terms of single phase chargers, but the OP was asking about a fast charger (3 phase 22kW).
    GreeBo wrote: »
    Would I not still be able to get a fast charger with the 3-phase despite the shower?


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    #19
    ethernet
    Registered Users Posts: 3,568 ✭✭✭ethernet


    GreeBo wrote: »
    Yeah I was looking at the Zappi since it will drop the draw based on what else is being used...but if it doesnt do fast charge then its not much use to me.

    also will be getting a second EV within the year (though with a fast charger I wont need another point)

    /edit turns out the Hyundai Ionic only has single phase charger on board.... :(

    Just to point out: the second generation model of the Zappi is available for 3P supplies. Ok, kinda pointless if your car will only has a 7 kW onboard charger but still some element of future proofing.


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    #20
    2011
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 12,546 Mod ✭✭✭✭2011


    ethernet wrote: »
    Just to point out: the second generation model of the Zappi is available for 3P supplies. Ok, kinda pointless if your car will only has a 7 kW onboard charger but still some element of future proofing.

    Not pointless if you want to charge 2 of these EV's at the same time, it spreads the load better.


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    #21
    GreeBo
    Registered Users Posts: 27,120 ✭✭✭✭GreeBo


    2011 wrote: »
    Not pointless if you want to charge 2 of these EV's at the same time, it spreads the load better.

    but would need two zappis... right?


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    #22
    2011
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 12,546 Mod ✭✭✭✭2011


    GreeBo wrote: »
    but would need two zappis... right?

    Yes.
    I guess my point is that 3 phase is always preferable if you have the option.


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