"Non book readers" - Season 8 Episode 5 "The bells" - Spoilers post 2 forward

Foxtrol · 19-05-2019 04:13PM

The White Wolf wrote: »

Well the show put in the leg work on Tyrion's and Jorah's convergence to be fair. One can be ultra cynical if they want by saying their meeting was still extremely unlikely but then again if that's your argument you might as well stop watching television altogether.

What leg work? As far as I remember we didn't hear from Jorah from the time Dany banished him out until he coincidentally ended up in the same brothel as Tyrion a fair distance away from Meereen.

My argument isn't that I have a problem with the Jorah and Tyrion meeting, it is that it is ultra hypocritical to be fine with all the other much more coincidental meetings and then try to use the coincidence of Jamie and Euron's meeting as something to beat the writers with.

Given you mentioned Euron and Jaime's unlikely clash there was a great Reddit post I saw a few days ago that compared Davos' shipwreck in season 2 to Euron's shipwreck in season 8 under similar circumstances; long story short, it's possibly the best illustration of how D&D have faltered without the source. Google it if you're interested.

It was posted earlier on the thread and to me it is a very poor argument against the writers (when to me there are plenty of valid ones to make). Firstly, there isn't a rule to what happens to people when their ship gets blown up. There could be currents that could take you either direction and a key thing being that Euron would want to swim towards KL while Davos would want to swim away from a) the Wild Fire and b) what looked like a failed attack on KL.

For GRRM it suited his story to have Davos end up on a rock away from KL, given that he wanted to reunite him with Stannis to continue his story for the next few books, while with D&D they have one episode left and needed to finish his story, I'm sure no one wants to randomly cut away on the episode tonight to Euron on a rock.

If anything someone surviving by swimming to land is much more likely than someone ending up on a rock far enough from the battle and being found by a friend from the side that lost. If anyone 'forced' their writing to me it was GRRM, if roles were reversed and D&D came up with that ridiculous Davos escape for Euron people would lose their minds.

Foxtrol · 19-05-2019 04:27PM

TerrorFirmer wrote: »

No, that's my argued opinion. I didn't say anywhere "that is fact".

On a discussion board I generally take everything anyone says as opinion, I don't expect them to preface every single point made with "Well in my opinion...."

It's taken as a given that it's their viewpoint no matter what way their opinion falls.

I only raised it in relation to a previous post because the words "that is a fact" were explicitly expressed.

In your posts today your'e acting like a martyr one minute, repeatedly claiming that posters are making out that people who don't like it aren't 'getting it', while in the same post pretty much saying that people that saw this developing in Dany's character and earning this turn since season 1 don't 'get' the difference between character development and foreshadowing. The hypocrisy is acting hurt while dishing out the same thing yourself.

Jamiekelly · 19-05-2019 04:31PM

D&D are terrible writers. That is all that needs to be said.

Foxtrol · 19-05-2019 04:33PM

is_that_so wrote: »

I think the point here is that there are some who see foreshadowing as the only arbiter of events in this episode and don't much care about whether there was plot development or not.

And there are others who see this as Dany's character developing over 8 seasons rather than it being 8 seasons of 'foreshadowing' and a flick of the switch in this episode.

Stop moaning ffs · 19-05-2019 04:58PM

Sorry but I can’t read anyone who voted in that pathetic petitions posts seriously cos they ‘wouldn’t be satisfied until B&W’s future works are derailed’. I mean come on.

is_that_so · 19-05-2019 05:32PM

Foxtrol wrote: »

And there are others who see this as Dany's character developing over 8 seasons rather than it being 8 seasons of 'foreshadowing' and a flick of the switch in this episode.

We all see things in different ways but really best not to go hinting that either group is wrong as a validation of your own view.

The White Wolf · 19-05-2019 05:39PM

Stop moaning ffs wrote: »

Sorry but I can’t read anyone who voted in that pathetic petitions posts seriously cos they ‘wouldn’t be satisfied until B&W’s future works are derailed’. I mean come on.

Could be worse.....could be a keyboard warrior afraid to quote the post you're having a dig at.

J. Marston · 19-05-2019 06:04PM

I like this version...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oGWSfFeLV8Q

Grayditch · 19-05-2019 06:05PM

The White Wolf wrote: »

Could be worse.....could be a keyboard warrior afraid to quote the post you're having a dig at.

giphy.gif?cid=790b76115ce18caa46496c342ec18fa2&rid=giphy.gif

Stop moaning ffs · 19-05-2019 06:08PM

The White Wolf wrote: »

Could be worse.....could be a keyboard warrior afraid to quote the post you're having a dig at.

Nah thread derailment and shining any kind of light of such deluded entitled idiocy is counter productive

Foxtrol · 19-05-2019 06:38PM

is_that_so wrote: »

We all see things in different ways but really best not to go hinting that either group is wrong as a validation of your own view.

That was my point, despite how some posts are suddenly trying to act like the victim, no side is being 'dismissed' or told they are wrong.

It is however a basic fact that there are certain scenes that took place in the show. I think most of us accept this and just place a different meaning, justification, or importance to them. There are a group of people who just flat out refuse to accept that they exist or have any relevance to a discussion and these folk aren't being 'dismissed' when questions are raised about opinions that ignore facts.

Foxtrol · 19-05-2019 06:40PM

The White Wolf wrote: »

Could be worse.....could be a keyboard warrior afraid to quote the post you're having a dig at.

Could be worse.... could be a keyboard warrior who makes a snarky comment to avoid responding to another poster who asked them a question :rolleyes:

The White Wolf · 19-05-2019 07:04PM

Foxtrol wrote: »

Could be worse.... could be a keyboard warrior who makes a snarky comment to avoid responding to another poster who asked them a question :rolleyes:

There was nothing to respond to pal.

Paddy Cow · 19-05-2019 07:14PM

The White Wolf wrote: »

There was nothing to respond to pal.

I'm not your pal :pac:

OneOfThem Stumbled · 19-05-2019 07:47PM

Stop moaning ffs wrote: »

Sorry but I can’t read anyone who voted in that pathetic petitions posts seriously cos they ‘wouldn’t be satisfied until B&W’s future works are derailed’. I mean come on.

Did you read the statement by the guy who made the petition? I'll paste it below.

As this petition approaches (EDIT: surpasses!) a million signatures, I figured I should give a real update and explanation.

I made this petition some few days after Episode 4, “The Last of the Starks”, aired. I was just so disappointed and angry. It was simply me venting a bit. I posted it to r/freefolk on Reddit, it got nowhere, and I shrugged and went about my day. I had forgotten all about it. A week later, a coworker caught me before I was leaving for the day and asked, “Hey, is this you?” The petition had almost reached 500,000 signatures. I was blown away. I hadn’t checked the thing for a week! And look at how far it has come!

I haven’t heard from anyone HBO-related. I don’t think people can reasonably expect HBO to completely remake the season, or any part of this particular series (keep in mind the prequel spinoffs). It costs a fortune to shoot one episode, and I think most signers understand that. Will HBO lose gobs of money over this? Eh probably not. As Heath Ledger’s Joker once said, “It’s not about the money, it’s about sending a message.” And I think this message is one of frustration and disappointment at its core.

There is so much awful crap going on in the world, people like me need to escape into things like Star Wars and Game of Thrones. We fans invested a wealth of passion and time into this series. I’ve been watching religiously since Season 2, myself. I’ve read all the books and eagerly await the next two. I love this story, and I, like most of you, was crushed to see how the last season (and Season 7, let’s be real) has been handled.

Is Dany going to succumb to madness in the books? Probably. Is Arya going to kill the Night King? Well he doesn’t exist in the books as of yet so…maybe? Is Jaime going to sacrifice his entire character arc to go embrace Cersei? I’d doubt it, but that’s GRRM’s decision. The issue I have is not necessarily with what we got, it’s HOW we got there -- A rushed, laughably inconsistent mess of a season fraught with cringe-inducing, arc-slaying dialogue and “everybody is stupid” syndrome. We can expect that the books will describe a more sensical path toward the ultimate conclusions that we will see on Sunday. No pressure, Mr. Martin.

D&D adapted those books in the beginning and it became one of the greatest TV shows of all time. No one can doubt their talents there. But they seemingly became tired of the series and rushed to the end, thereby doing the show and its fans a great disservice.

I feel for the actors and actresses too. I am sure some of them are happy with their arcs or perhaps are just happy to be done with the series so they can move on, but I am also sure that many are disappointed with the writing of their characters and the plot here in the end. They put their souls into these characters, and they could be every bit as disappointed as we are.

And no one can question the talents of the casting department, and cinematography, and music, and costuming, and the CGI team, and all those technical fields that went into keeping the show such a beautiful spectacle through to the end. They deserve all the accolades they can get and this petition is not a comment on their contributions to the show.

In closing, I didn’t make this petition to be an entitled, whiny fan. I made it because I was immensely disappointed and needed to vent. Do I have a solution? I’ve got plenty of ideas, but no, I’m not a Hollywood writer. But you don’t need to be a mechanic to know your car is broken.

Thank you to everyone for signing this silly thing. I will post another update if something tangible happens.

Valar Morghulis

-Dylan

Stop moaning ffs · 19-05-2019 07:50PM

If only these morons got as upset and active about real world problems in their localities and countries.

The stupidity and arrogance is astounding. Any clown signing it is beneath contempt.

Stop moaning ffs · 19-05-2019 07:53PM

Free tickets available to this. It’s on in Glasnevin talent garden. June 20th
Look up talent garden on fb

Join us for this special seminar with Jonathan Symmonds, multi-award winner and Lead Animator at Pixomondo for Game of Thrones, as he shares insights into the production, creation and animation of the dragons of Game of Thrones. He will showcase how the dragons were conceived from initial concept to final designs, including details about anatomy and texture reference.

Foxtrol · 19-05-2019 08:01PM

OneOfThem Stumbled wrote: »

Did you read the statement by the guy who made the petition? I'll paste it below.

As this petition approaches (EDIT: surpasses!) a million signatures, I figured I should give a real update and explanation.

I made this petition some few days after Episode 4, “The Last of the Starks”, aired. I was just so disappointed and angry. It was simply me venting a bit. I posted it to r/freefolk on Reddit, it got nowhere, and I shrugged and went about my day. I had forgotten all about it. A week later, a coworker caught me before I was leaving for the day and asked, “Hey, is this you?” The petition had almost reached 500,000 signatures. I was blown away. I hadn’t checked the thing for a week! And look at how far it has come!

I haven’t heard from anyone HBO-related. I don’t think people can reasonably expect HBO to completely remake the season, or any part of this particular series (keep in mind the prequel spinoffs). It costs a fortune to shoot one episode, and I think most signers understand that. Will HBO lose gobs of money over this? Eh probably not. As Heath Ledger’s Joker once said, “It’s not about the money, it’s about sending a message.” And I think this message is one of frustration and disappointment at its core.

There is so much awful crap going on in the world, people like me need to escape into things like Star Wars and Game of Thrones. We fans invested a wealth of passion and time into this series. I’ve been watching religiously since Season 2, myself. I’ve read all the books and eagerly await the next two. I love this story, and I, like most of you, was crushed to see how the last season (and Season 7, let’s be real) has been handled.

Is Dany going to succumb to madness in the books? Probably. Is Arya going to kill the Night King? Well he doesn’t exist in the books as of yet so…maybe? Is Jaime going to sacrifice his entire character arc to go embrace Cersei? I’d doubt it, but that’s GRRM’s decision. The issue I have is not necessarily with what we got, it’s HOW we got there -- A rushed, laughably inconsistent mess of a season fraught with cringe-inducing, arc-slaying dialogue and “everybody is stupid” syndrome. We can expect that the books will describe a more sensical path toward the ultimate conclusions that we will see on Sunday. No pressure, Mr. Martin.

D&D adapted those books in the beginning and it became one of the greatest TV shows of all time. No one can doubt their talents there. But they seemingly became tired of the series and rushed to the end, thereby doing the show and its fans a great disservice.

I feel for the actors and actresses too. I am sure some of them are happy with their arcs or perhaps are just happy to be done with the series so they can move on, but I am also sure that many are disappointed with the writing of their characters and the plot here in the end. They put their souls into these characters, and they could be every bit as disappointed as we are.

And no one can question the talents of the casting department, and cinematography, and music, and costuming, and the CGI team, and all those technical fields that went into keeping the show such a beautiful spectacle through to the end. They deserve all the accolades they can get and this petition is not a comment on their contributions to the show.

In closing, I didn’t make this petition to be an entitled, whiny fan. I made it because I was immensely disappointed and needed to vent. Do I have a solution? I’ve got plenty of ideas, but no, I’m not a Hollywood writer. But you don’t need to be a mechanic to know your car is broken.

Thank you to everyone for signing this silly thing. I will post another update if something tangible happens.

Valar Morghulis

-Dylan

I'd say it is pretty rare that people set out with the intention of being entitled but that's what their act ends up being.

Fair play for owning it and 'going viral', but it says a lot about where we are as a society that an appropriate way to vent is seen to be demanding that an art form is remade to their liking (whether they think their request would ever happen or not).

youreadthat · 19-05-2019 08:03PM

Doesn't really matter who signed what, Seasons 7-8 are still sucky messes using expensive set pieces as a mask for good writing & scripting. Now let's all get our coat and take our favourite pet to the vet tomorrow to give it the quick dignified end it sorely needs.

lawred2 · 19-05-2019 08:06PM

That petition is cringe inducing

J. Marston · 19-05-2019 08:12PM

"Stupidity and arrogance."

"Beneath contempt."

"Cringe-inducing."

The outrage about the petition is more embarrassing than people actually signing it. Vast majority are probably signing it for a laugh or to be part of a meme. Taking it so seriously is ridiculous.

Stop moaning ffs · 19-05-2019 08:13PM

Foxtrol wrote: »

I'd say it is pretty rare that people set out with the intention of being entitled but that's what their act ends up being.

Fair play for owning it and 'going viral', but it says a lot about where we are as a society that an appropriate way to vent is seen to be demanding that an art form is remade to their liking (whether they think their request would ever happen or not).

Well said.

Has it not occurred to anyone how transient and fleeting these outrage events seem to be? The last Jedi. Onto endgame. Onto game of thrones.

Same MO each time. Endless moaning and outrage and a of course a petition.

Where will they go now? Nothing big happening until Christmas.

Stop moaning ffs · 19-05-2019 08:15PM

J. Marston wrote: »

"Stupidity and arrogance."

"Beneath contempt."

"Cringe-inducing."

The outrage about the petition is more embarrassing than people actually signing it. Vast majority are probably signing it for a laugh or to be part of a meme. Taking it so seriously is ridiculous.

Have a read through this thread. The last few pages in particular.
That much commitment to whinging. About a tv show. Up to and including people signing that petition seriously, Is actually ridiculous

https://touch.boards.ie/thread/2057980606/14/#post110225357

OneOfThem Stumbled · 19-05-2019 08:24PM

Stop moaning ffs wrote: »

Have a read through this thread. The last few pages in particular.
That much commitment to whinging. About a tv show. Up to and including people signing that petition seriously, Is actually ridiculous

https://touch.boards.ie/thread/2057980606/14/#post110225357

But whinging about whinging about a tv show isn't ridiculous?

There's also plenty of posts you could say are whinging about whinging about whinging about a tv show in this thread. Of course there are also rebuttals to such posts (yourself included), which are whinging about whinging about whinging about whinging about a tv show

Stop moaning ffs · 19-05-2019 08:27PM

OneOfThem Stumbled wrote: »

But whinging about whinging about a tv show isn't ridiculous?

There's also plenty of posts you could say are whinging about whinging about whinging about a tv show. Of course there are rebuttals to such posts, which are whinging about whinging about whinging about whinging about a tv show

You’re dead right. Just always wonder why bother. Don’t like it? Move on.
Nobody has ever changed anybody’s mind by complaining. Vast majority of people who enjoy something just don’t engage or even bother. They like it and move on.
The ones who don’t like stuff though, they’ll rail against it and anyone who liked it, seemingly endlessly.

Foxtrol · 19-05-2019 08:30PM

OneOfThem Stumbled wrote: »

But whinging about whinging about a tv show isn't ridiculous?

There's also plenty of posts you could say are whinging about whinging about whinging about a tv show in this thread. Of course there are also rebuttals to such posts (yourself included), which are whinging about whinging about whinging about whinging about a tv show

Whinging is one thing but how sad would you think a person would be to go to the effort of creating a petition demanding boards delete and recreate the thread because it didn't go the way they hoped?

Pure entitlement and attention seeking is very different to plain old whinging.

youreadthat · 19-05-2019 08:30PM

Foxtrol · 19-05-2019 08:31PM

J. Marston wrote: »

"Stupidity and arrogance."

"Beneath contempt."

"Cringe-inducing."

The outrage about the petition is more embarrassing than people actually signing it. Vast majority are probably signing it for a laugh or to be part of a meme. Taking it so seriously is ridiculous.

It won't get close to being as embarrassing until one of those posters creates a petition against the petition :pac:

lawred2 · 19-05-2019 08:40PM

J. Marston wrote: »

"Stupidity and arrogance."

"Beneath contempt."

"Cringe-inducing."

The outrage about the petition is more embarrassing than people actually signing it. Vast majority are probably signing it for a laugh or to be part of a meme. Taking it so seriously is ridiculous.

Outrage?

That word had lost all meaning if you think I'm 'outraged' by some cringey internet petition

Grayditch · 19-05-2019 08:41PM

This is the place people would come to discuss liking or disliking things pertaining to the Game Of Thrones TV show.

If you didn't write this season... Don't worry about the criticisms on... um... Boards!

"Non book readers" - Season 8 Episode 5 "The bells" - Spoilers post 2 forward

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