"Non book readers" - Season 8 Episode 5 "The bells" - Spoilers post 2 forward

lawlolawl · 13-05-2019 09:06PM

ctrl-alt-delete wrote: »

I wonder what the significance was of him removing his rings?

It'll never be referenced again because the show is dumb as **** now.

TerrorFirmer · 13-05-2019 09:08PM

Overall an OK episode. Visually, very good. Definitely some incredible scenes, and the general backdrop/atmosphere of Dany torching Kings Landing was handled extremely well.

Putting aside the fact that the show badly needed a few more episodes to properly flesh out the direction the story has gone....

Golden Company....OK. Blink and you'll miss them. The immediate decimation single-handedly of the Lannister forces, Golden Company, and Iron Fleet felt way too cheap. I don't mind a one sided struggle at all and it makes sense in the context, but.....I mean the Dothraki and Drogon annihilated the Lannisters at Kings Road, but that had a way better flow and sense of hopeless, doomed one-sided battle, rather than "We'll just quickly wrap this all up and butcher them all in 30 seconds".

Cleganebowl....disappointing (though I laughed out loud at the utter schlocky death of Qyburn). Would've prefered something much more grounded, it almost felt like I was watching a scene from the Star Wars prequels.

Cersei's end was OK to me. A bit sad, even, despite her downfall being (like everything else) far too rushed which leaves it feeling empty. Jamies end is perfectly fitting too, in theory. It doesn't undo his 'redemption' arc either in my view, his coming back to Cersei says nothing other than his undying love for her. If you go back and watch the scene in S4 where Cersei tells Tywin about her and Jamie; and then later when she goes to him....it's impossible not to be OK with him gravitating back to her in the end.

I say in theory because the last season or two have been very much 'off', and as a result I've realised I've lost emotional attachment to pretty much every character. So it was more a case of "Ah right. Cersei and Jaime are dead. Grand so". A few seasons ago I'd be almost in tears if either died, as both were my favourite characters. I find now I don't really care as much.

Anyway, Euron. Swims a few KM after his fleet gets torched and decides to fight Jaime to the death mere seconds after clambouring out of the water. Utterly daft. Other stuff in the episode annoyed me a little more, but this was by far the stupidest "we've got to wrap this character up somehow" bit going.

Why couldn't they just have left Euron to be killed by Dany. Let Jaime incur his wounds fighting the Kingsguard who refuse to let him pass to see Cersei.

Anyway, it was a grand episode. Some great stuff, some bad stuff. How rushed this season has been has dealt an absolute hammer blow to the emotional impact of this episode though for me personally. E1-3 and E4-6 should have been the basis for S8 and S9 respectively, badly needed.

Sonics2k · 13-05-2019 09:11PM

Honestly one of my favourite episodes.

Those surprised by Dany going mental and killing people (albeit more than even I expected) really need to go back and pay attention. Dany has always had a temper and is prone to excess. Throughout the seasons we've seen her become more and more extreme in her attitudes. Gone are the days of her being forgiving.

TheValeyard · 13-05-2019 09:13PM

Dragon Queens be cray cray

scudzilla · 13-05-2019 09:14PM

This season, IMO, is by far the weakest, i'm useless at predicting things but have got most of this nailed on, and how rushed does it all seem

TheValeyard · 13-05-2019 09:16PM

scudzilla wrote: »

This season, IMO, is by far the weakest, i'm useless at predicting things but have got most of this nailed on, and how rushed does it all seem

I would agree about it getting rushed. Could easily do this over another season

Notorious · 13-05-2019 09:17PM

Quite a disappointing episode IMHO. Character arcs are being tied up far too quickly.

Since her aspirations to rule became clear, Daenerys has been warning us that she wouldn't be "the Queen of ashes". I think the seasons poor writing is blatantly evident here in how she's transitioned from being a little harsh with some of her punishments, to burning down an entire city and murdering innocents. A city of people who didn't chose to be ruled by Cersei or the Lannisters. Yes we could see how she didn't appear to be a competent ruler, and she lacked an advisor - but I don't believe she'd suddenly go postal. I expected her to fly towards the Red Keep.
Grey Worm, a soldier who has been brought up void feelings has lead his troops to commit war crimes. I don't think the death of Missandei would unhinge his character enough to provoke his murder of a soldier who has dropped his sword and surrendered.
Euron emerging from the water as Jamie crossed the beach was ridiculous. Then Euron easily overpowers Jamie after swimming over 20km from his boat to the shore. Only for Jamie to survive and then die in the collapse of the Keep.
Last week Daenerys' dragon was killed after a surprise attack by a fleet of ships (again, ridiculous). Her moving dragon was hit with what appeared to be the first shot of a bolt at a distance. This week all of the scorpions on the Golden Companies ships didn't even injure the last dragon, and all the soldiers on the wall barely let a shot off. Very convenient.

It was always going to be hard to finish Game of Thrones. But for characters like Jamie and Cersei who have been developed across seasons, to die in a collapsing building? Surely we deserve a more fitting ending? I'm very disappointed with the progression of the show since Season 7, but I thought they'd at least give us a good ending.

Drumpot · 13-05-2019 09:19PM

TerrorFirmer wrote: »

Cleganebowl....disappointing (though I laughed out loud at the utter schlocky death of Qyburn). Would've prefered something much more grounded, it almost felt like I was watching a scene from the Star Wars prequels.

Interesting you should I say that because when the camera panned to Dani who had won the war while the bells where ringing it reminded me of when Anakin was in the Jedi temple agonizing over whether he should go and save Palpatine. That moment when a character is about to go full retard.

Anakin was crying cause he knew he had to save Palpatine so he could save Padme. Dani was desperate for plain old revenge, she wanted to burn the city and was disgusted that she wasn’t going to get her chance legitimately so she made it happen!!!

Drumpot · 13-05-2019 09:20PM

Murray TheDemonic TalkingSkull wrote: »

Dragon Queens be cray cray

They really love their nephews though....

namloc1980 · 13-05-2019 09:22PM

WTF is Jon going to do about all those Northern soldiers who went on a killing spree of innocent people? Unsullied turned into war criminals also.

Scott Tenorman · 13-05-2019 09:24PM

I’ve moaned a lot about this season but I really enjoyed that.

Wasn’t expecting Dany to go full Mad Queen like that

walshb · 13-05-2019 09:26PM

This blonde lass is about as charismatic as a scabby toenail..

TheValeyard · 13-05-2019 09:28PM

Is there even a throne room left for the Queen of Ashes?

J. Marston · 13-05-2019 09:29PM

namloc1980 wrote: »

WTF is Jon going to do about all those Northern soldiers who went on a killing spree of innocent people? Unsullied turned into war criminals also.

"On second thoughts Tormund, can I come too?"

Ghost snarls.

13-05-2019 09:31PM

The closest thing which came to a distracting contrivance for me in this episode was Euron arriving at that cove to meet Jamie. But...why was Jamie there in the first place? Because there was a passage way up to the Red Keep right there. It's not outside the realms of possibility to think that Euron might be there for that same purpose. It's not as if it were just any random beach in KL Jamie and Euron met at, and it's not like Euron just washed up on it unwillingly.

Euron was an abomination in the show overall, but his scenes in this week's episode are nowhere near the worst of his story for me. From the writers POV, sure he stumbled onto that beach to have a showdown with Jamie, but the show did give me enough to make me believe that they crossed paths on their way back to Cersei. We know Jamie was going to save her, but I reckon from the few words Euron said to Jamie that Euron was on his way to steal what he could and sail off.

expectationlost · 13-05-2019 09:38PM

namloc1980 wrote: »

Euron showing up at that exact moment on that exact beach was bloody stupid. Really stupid. Added nothing to the episode whatsoever as Jaime was going to die in the dungeon with Cersei anyway. Ridiculous.

it was the beach with access to the red keep

walshb · 13-05-2019 09:46PM

Cersei...all we need is one good shot...

Who writes this garbage?!

OneOfThem Stumbled · 13-05-2019 09:48PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Euron was an abomination in the show overall

He will always be fondly remembered for killing all the sand snakes though.

Dave0301 · 13-05-2019 09:50PM

walshb wrote: »

Cersei...all we need is one good shot...

Who writes this garbage?!

Not GRRM anyway :pac:

Foxtrol · 13-05-2019 09:53PM

Notorious wrote: »

Quite a disappointing episode IMHO. Character arcs are being tied up far too quickly.
Since her aspirations to rule became clear, Daenerys has been warning us that she wouldn't be "the Queen of ashes". I think the seasons poor writing is blatantly evident here in how she's transitioned from being a little harsh with some of her punishments, to burning down an entire city and murdering innocents. A city of people who didn't chose to be ruled by Cersei or the Lannisters. Yes we could see how she didn't appear to be a competent ruler, and she lacked an advisor - but I don't believe she'd suddenly go postal. I expected her to fly towards the Red Keep.

A little harsh in her punishments is quite the understatement there. She has been threatening and itching to burn down cities since her dragons were born, she was just talked out of it each time.

The people also didn’t choose her, which she brought up numerous times. If you aren’t with her you’re against her.

[*]Grey Worm, a soldier who has been brought up void feelings has lead his troops to commit war crimes. I don't think the death of Missandei would unhinge his character enough to provoke his murder of a soldier who has dropped his sword and surrendered.

War crimes??? That is historical standard sacking of a city and they were following their Queen. The Unsullied kill babies if their master tells them, killing a few soldiers is nothing.

[*]Euron emerging from the water as Jamie crossed the beach was ridiculous. Then Euron easily overpowers Jamie after swimming over 20km from his boat to the shore. Only for Jamie to survive and then die in the collapse of the Keep.

Agreed, they needed to stop trying to make Euron a thing.

[*]Last week Daenerys' dragon was killed after a surprise attack by a fleet of ships (again, ridiculous). Her moving dragon was hit with what appeared to be the first shot of a bolt at a distance. This week all of the scorpions on the Golden Companies ships didn't even injure the last dragon, and all the soldiers on the wall barely let a shot off. Very convenient.

Each dragon was taken out by surprise shots. Ignoring the leap you have to take for them not to see Euron previously, they had all the time to prepare a shot and hit it while it is far harder when they're being surprised. This is what everyone was telling Cersei for the last 2 seasons but she believed in that one shot making it through.

It was always going to be hard to finish Game of Thrones. But for characters like Jamie and Cersei who have been developed across seasons, to die in a collapsing building? Surely we deserve a more fitting ending? I'm very disappointed with the progression of the show since Season 7, but I thought they'd at least give us a good ending.

If GoT is somewhat constant with anything, you rarely get what you deserve. After the pre-War of Winterfell episode, I feared they were going full standard TV show and pander to the viewers with everything. It’s far from perfect but I’m happy it looks like they’ve avoided that.

is_that_so · 13-05-2019 09:57PM

Sonics2k wrote: »

Honestly one of my favourite episodes.

Those surprised by Dany going mental and killing people (albeit more than even I expected) really need to go back and pay attention. Dany has always had a temper and is prone to excess. Throughout the seasons we've seen her become more and more extreme in her attitudes. Gone are the days of her being forgiving.

People have been watching. She had an arc which allowed her to develop to a point of some complexity. I think people expected a lot more actual plot development to lead up to it rather than what the hell let's have her go berserk in the second last episode.

13-05-2019 09:58PM

OneOfThem Stumbled wrote: »

He will always be fondly remembered for killing all the sand snakes though.

There was that of course - One abomination destroys another.

Here's to Euron so - What is dead may never die

Sonics2k · 13-05-2019 10:01PM

Right, proper follow up.

I'm not happy they decided to do 6 episodes instead of 10. I'm enjoying the season, but it all feels rushed.

Cersei's downfall made sense to me. For years she's simply schemed her way through things, with a massive amount of false bravado. When she finally see's Dany in action, she -still- thinks she'll be fine. Even after her army abandons her she carries on this belief. It's only when the Red Keep is literally falling down she accepts it.

Tyrions betrayal of Lord Varys surprised me. What surprised me more was Jon being so okay with the punishment.

The scene with Ayra escaping Kings Landing was intense, incredibly well done and very dizzying.

Dany going mental. Saw that coming years ago, it was the only way it would go. Crazy Dragon lady was always going to be a thing

namloc1980 · 13-05-2019 10:03PM

What was the story with Arya and the horse at the end?

is_that_so · 13-05-2019 10:03PM

Foxtrol wrote: »

If GoT is somewhat constant with anything, you rarely get what you deserve. After the pre-War of Winterfell episode, I feared they were going full standard TV show and pander to the viewers with everything. It’s far from perfect but I’m happy it looks like they’ve avoided that.

It's really not what viewers deserve nor their disappointment at plotlines not going how they expected it's disappointment the show descended into some very bad writing and galloped via a whole lot of shallow spectacle to an ending that may well define it.

is_that_so · 13-05-2019 10:04PM

namloc1980 wrote: »

What was the story with Arya and the horse at the end?

Pixie dust! Symbolic tosh!:rolleyes:

Paddy Cow · 13-05-2019 10:05PM

Notorious wrote: »

Grey Worm, a soldier who has been brought up void feelings has lead his troops to commit war crimes. I don't think the death of Missandei would unhinge his character enough to provoke his murder of a soldier who has dropped his sword and surrendered.

Grey Worm was devoid of feelings until he fell in love with Missandei. As far back as season 5 he was saying he was afraid he wouldn't see her again. In season 7 he said she was his weakness. I can understand him cracking when she was murdered. She was the only good and real thing in his life. Grey Worm would've let the soldiers go. It was only when Dany ignored the peace bells that she was basically giving the go ahead to Grey Worm.

meeeeh · 13-05-2019 10:06PM

namloc1980 wrote: »

WTF is Jon going to do about all those Northern soldiers who went on a killing spree of innocent people? Unsullied turned into war criminals also.

Do you think solders don't become dehumanized in war if they are fighting for the 'good' side?

Bonzo Delaney · 13-05-2019 10:08PM

namloc1980 wrote: »

What was the story with Arya and the horse at the end?

Death rides a pale horse
It's mentioned in the bible somewhere.
Anyhoo surely Jon will retreat to the north live a peaceful life and let the mad dragon lady rule her ruins.

How Soon Is Now · 13-05-2019 10:08PM

So instead of repeating whats already been said and mentioning what i liked or didn't like about that episode im gonna jump in here with.......

Who wants to do me the honor of explaining wtf they done or tried to do with Arya Stark in that episode!!??

"Non book readers" - Season 8 Episode 5 "The bells" - Spoilers post 2 forward

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