"Non book readers" - Season 8 Episode 5 "The bells" - Spoilers post 2 forward

RickBlaine · 13-05-2019 08:05PM

I'm reading some commentary online saying that this episode has undone 7 seasons of character building with regards to Dany. I really don't think it has. Dany always had a mean streak and a temper. OK, she has never slaughtered innocents en masse before but her problems as a ruler in Essos were relatively minor compared to Westeros. In Essos, she considered her enemies to be slavers and the sons of the Harpy. In Westeros, she considered herself to be at odds with the general Westeros population as a whole. She never experienced that before.

She had always expected to be greeted by the Westerosi as a great liberator, as she was in Slaver's Bay. So the fact that they were completely apathetic towards her must have been a complete shock. Also, remember that when she arrived at Dragonstone, her first impulse was a full scale attack on King's Landing but Tyrion talked her out of it. And the killing of the Tarlys was completely against Tyrion's advise, and I presume the whole reason he was her adviser in the first place was to help her navigate Westerosi politics.

This season has piled so much **** on Dany that she elects to rule by fear. This isn't in the script but my take on that is once she made that decision, she always planned to burn King's Landing to make it an example to the rest of Westeros of what would happen if they disobeyed her. She probably never expected the city to surrender. So when the bells rang, you could see her debating something in her head, definitely some kind of internal conflict. She had planned to burn the city but now there was no justifiable cause to do so, but then she snapped and became the mad queen.

What I will say is that the show hasn't done a good job at this transition because it was far too quick. I think the season needed another couple of episodes to see a more gradual disintegration of Dany's sanity.

Schwiiing · 13-05-2019 08:11PM

Cleganebowl ended up a draw. Sickened.

SuperRabbit · 13-05-2019 08:13PM

*ahem*

I haven't seen any episode of Game of Thrones and I felt the need to tell someone because I haven't in a number of days

Ah yeah :cool:

Drumpot · 13-05-2019 08:13PM

Foxtrol wrote: »

Like most characters in GoT, she isn’t simply good or bad, even after what she did in the last episode. Yes, they built up the noble aspect of her with one hand, but with the other they’ve built a character that struggled with her temper, a god complex, and a vengeful nature throughout the full 8 seasons. We get an excuse to ignore the horrible things that she did to her earlier enemies, because they are framed as bad people to a cartoon level at times, and then given excuse to ignore even worse things she has said that she wanted to do, as her circumstances or advisors stop her before she can.

I’ve no problem with people preferring that they went a different route with her or that we had more time than 1 episode to resolve what she just did, but to quote Ramsey ‘you haven't been paying attention’ if you feel there hasn’t been build up showing her potential to be a ‘mad queen’.

Agreed, not liking a story or character arc does not mean it’s either unlikely or a bad choice, in many cases it’s just a subjective personal opinion. I’ve noticed this a lot in movies and shows where people really lack insight when it comes to human behavior. Insert beloved character “wouldn’t do that or be so different” ... Somebody gave a very good synopsis on Jamie and compared them to an addict which I thought was a very good explanation.

Exclamation Marc · 13-05-2019 08:13PM

Schwiiing wrote: »

Cleganebowl ended up a draw. Sickened.

Away goal win for The Hound.

Optimalprimerib · 13-05-2019 08:23PM

I don't care, I effing loved it. It was harrowing to watch and completely unhinged. I'm happy the whole Daenerys snow love fest is done with too.

lawlolawl · 13-05-2019 08:23PM

Someone needs to do a version of the "it was me all along austin!" meme with Dany.

Essien · 13-05-2019 08:25PM

Not for the first time this season I'll say it was an incredibly entertaining episode even if, on reflection, a lot of stuff made little sense.

13-05-2019 08:25PM

I didn't really get Cleganebowl (why is it even called that...?). The hound wants to get revenge on his brother because he put his face in a fire. The mountain is a bit of prick and now a semi-zombie. Does that cover their motivations?

Feisar · 13-05-2019 08:31PM

Arya to kill Danny in the finale.

average hero · 13-05-2019 08:32PM

Wow. A great episode for me. Was probably the best in the season so far.

Personally I really preferred this battle and set piece to the white walker story arc. I always felt that the Lannisters versus the others, with all of the political maneuvering, scheming and whispers going on was much more compelling than the white walkers etc. I understand some people won't feel that way but that's my opinion!

Loved the amount of main characters deaths in it and also the 'snapping' of Dani. Emilia Clarke plays crazy Dani way better than previous Dani in my opinion.

Interestingly, I saw some people praise how Cersei went out. I am a bit disappointed to be honest. I feel that she should have died at the hands of someone rather than the roof. If the night king could die from Arya, surely Cersei could have been? Also I didn't like how she emotionally crumbled in that episode. This woman stared down the undead brought to her from beyond the wall, decided not to go fight them, schemed her way out of the 'light of the 7' situation with the dragonfire explosion and did loads more besides. I don't have a problem with her showing emotion when she knows it's over, but I think the hysterical breaking down betrays the character a little. She is one of the toughest characters in the series. Yes, I am a Cersei fan haha.

Great episode.

Gwynplaine · 13-05-2019 08:33PM

On second watch here now. Watched it this morning at 6am. Loved it. Some brilliant scenes.
My favourite character from the whole thing is now gone. I believe he now eating a snack box.

paw patrol · 13-05-2019 08:36PM

i thoight visually it was a great episode. story was it was all over the place.

They are trying to rush this season...

random thoughts:

last week the Quburn's arrow could lash the dragons out of it , this week with 100's of them they couldn't lay a scratch . And the single dragon just wrecked and entire city.
The Golden company...like WTF...I hope the lannisters get a refund on that bag of sh1te.
Tyrion has turned into a fool
Cersai (like the night kings) dies ..just like that ...you'd wonder what the 8 seasons of fuss was over.

Funny after all the character development the hound is the most honorable of them all.

I really like GOT but this season is meh.

Arghus · 13-05-2019 08:41PM

The Lanisters being stopped in their tracks by a dead end and then perishing as the foundations collapse is a good metaphor for the state of the show as it is now.

Assetbacked · 13-05-2019 08:44PM

Assetbacked wrote: »

Well this can be updated. Finally, the tide is turning against her and it is funny to see so much shock and hysteria as if she could just waltz into King's Landing with her dragons to seize the iron throne.

Jaime and Cersei have a story to resolve and Danys and the Starks also have something to resolve. This is how I see it being split. Danys nor the Starks will have to kill Cersei who will die but whoever emerges from the Stark/Danys conflict will, without having to kill Cersei, sit on the iron throne.

In terms of what happens then, we have Arya disappearing again into the wilderness so it would seem that potentially she will emerge to protect Jon from Danys and kill her. Jaime will kill Cersei and his unborn child to redeem himself from everything that has happened. Jaime and Tyrian are now on Bronn's hit list.

As for Bran, we don't know what he told Sansa and Arya, we just assume we know. I don't think it was just what we thought it was. That should've been a significant event, Arya and Sansa finding out that information as well as their reactions but we did not get to see it. Arya then wandered off with the hound. There is definitely more to that then we might think.

Well, an update to this from last week's episode. I'm still curious what Bran said to Arya and Sansa.

It does appear that Arya is likely to kill Danys though who has succumbed to her single sighted, ruthless vision. The way she has talked of being on the iron throne is not the talk of a ruler. She was feared because of her dragons but she had not the qualities of a leader, more like an entitled, self-righteous warped claim.

Tyrian and Jon cannot face Danys and Greyworm again without killing each other so I don't know in what situation they will face each other again. Also, Bran and Sansa were absent from the entire episode so need to be brought in again to play apart. But I think it is not a good message to have dragons do all your work and get you to the top without having earned it and the show is rather predictable the final series so Danys will not survive til the end.

lawlolawl · 13-05-2019 08:45PM

Master schemer and plotter Cersei Lannister standing on a balcony simpering like an idiot whilst her entire military might is destroyed by one huffy young one on a dragon was kinda lame.

It's been bothering me more throughout the day. I was expecting some kind of twist in the tale but, nope, she nuked em all.

Drumpot · 13-05-2019 08:50PM

Be mad if Dani killed everybody who knew about Jons claim and then Varys letter ends up with somebody who can challange her ?! I think that letter could be important because they made a point to show him writing it.

namloc1980 · 13-05-2019 08:50PM

Euron showing up at that exact moment on that exact beach was bloody stupid. Really stupid. Added nothing to the episode whatsoever as Jaime was going to die in the dungeon with Cersei anyway. Ridiculous.

namloc1980 · 13-05-2019 08:51PM

Drumpot wrote: »

Be mad if Dani killed everybody who knew about Jons claim and then Varys letter ends up with somebody who can challange her ?! I think that letter could be important because they made a point to show him writing it.

Did he not burn it? Or was that something else.

Tikki Wang Wang · 13-05-2019 08:52PM

Where can you start with how bad this is? How awful this season it?

Captain Red Beard · 13-05-2019 08:52PM

lawlolawl wrote: »

Master schemer and plotter Cersei Lannister standing on a balcony simpering like an idiot whilst her entire military might is destroyed by one huffy young one on a dragon was kinda lame.

It's been bothering me more throughout the day. I was expecting some kind of twist in the tale but, nope, she nuked em all.

I thought it was pretty good, she realises her whole existence was pointless. Same with her anonymous death.

TheValeyard · 13-05-2019 08:56PM

Well, I think she has topped Joffrey as most insane monster.

Drumpot · 13-05-2019 08:56PM

namloc1980 wrote: »

Did he not burn it? Or was that something else.

I think he was but some of it could be left, it just feels like a lot of time was given to that scene that could of been trimmed to just show him being taken into custody.

Arghus · 13-05-2019 09:00PM

It was a spectacular episode of television to look at, but Dany's sudden heel turn wasn't the least bit earned, nor was Cersei's sudden disintegration into a simpering fool and her and Jaime's death were so throwaway to be practically insulting. A lot of the internal logic went out the window in this episode - it was a total rush job: under-cooked and over-stuffed. I know the show has been in decline for the last few seasons, but I'm genuinely gutted that this is the way it's looking like it's going to go out: spectacular, but totally unsatisfying illogical bollocks.

lawlolawl · 13-05-2019 09:01PM

namloc1980 wrote: »

Euron showing up at that exact moment on that exact beach was bloody stupid. Really stupid. Added nothing to the episode whatsoever as Jaime was going to die in the dungeon with Cersei anyway. Ridiculous.

The writers had to mash their action figures together again.

ctrl-alt-delete · 13-05-2019 09:02PM

Drumpot wrote: »

I think he was but some of it could be left, it just feels like a lot of time was given to that scene that could of been trimmed to just show him being taken into custody.

I wonder what the significance was of him removing his rings?

TheValeyard · 13-05-2019 09:03PM

Feisar wrote: »

Arya to kill Danny in the finale.

I'm hoping she does.

Also, Sansa and the Onion night for the win.

namloc1980 · 13-05-2019 09:03PM

Wish the Night King could have beaten them all now at this stage.

TheValeyard · 13-05-2019 09:03PM

ctrl-alt-delete wrote: »

I wonder what the significance was of him removing his rings?

Payment for delivery of the letter? Greater the risk, greater the reward?

Drumpot · 13-05-2019 09:05PM

ctrl-alt-delete wrote: »

I wonder what the significance was of him removing his rings?

Unless it’s a sort of dignified ending? Did he leave the rings with the burnt letter?

I just thought that maybe he started to burn the letter to make it look like not worth investigating? And but then put the lid quite quickly so it could eerily be still there. Maybe it’s nothing but giving a long time character a final scene on his own!

"Non book readers" - Season 8 Episode 5 "The bells" - Spoilers post 2 forward

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