Reliable small automatic for 35k km per year

edora91 · 03-05-2019 05:03PM #1

Hi all,

I recently changed roles and will need to drive on a daily basis. I checked with colleagues and they do 30-45k km per year. Some weeks it could be Dublin - Cork - Dublin - Belfast - Dublin - Waterford - Dublin... Total change from my desk-based lifestyle. Now I'm looking at getting a reliable car. For context, I'm 28, female, working as a sales engineer for a technology company, nearly 3 years with the same company. I have a full driving license, exchanged an EU license for an Irish license, no named driver experience, active GoCar subscription.

I'm eligible for just over â‚¬650p.m. car allowance per month, so not much left after BIK. Fuel is covered (with BIK on personal use mileage), insurance and tax only up to â‚¬2000p.a. with BIK deducted. The conditions for the policy is 4 seats, up to 5 years old, representative, no sport cars, properly insured.

My personal preference is:
- automatic
- under 3 years, NCT at least until June 2020
- petrol or hybrid <1.6 / tax under â‚¬200
- up to 50k km mileage to date with full service history
- parking sensors, rear camera, cruise control
- optional but nice to have: built-in navigation, android auto, lane departure alerts and parallel parking automation.

Based on this I've narrowed down things to:
1) Volkswagen Polo or Golf, 1.2 or 1l petrol, 2016-2017, â‚¬17-20k
DSG gearbox is supposed to be reliable, most bells and whistles covered, conservative enough choice. Not sure if PCP with VW Bank would work with my mileage, but APR of 3,9% is hard to beat.

2) Nissan Micra or Note, 1,2l, 2016-2017, â‚¬11-14k
CVT gearbox, Japanese-sized, a bit too youthful for me.

3) Toyota Yaris, 1,5l hybrid, 2016-2017, â‚¬14-16k
Hybrid sounds brilliant, but getting something with lower mileage seems tricky and battery change will be a pain. I've had a few rides in hybrid cabs that were very nice, but I fear it won't be a good ride on the motorway.

I've been encouraged to look for a dealer who can source a higher spec car from the UK, but I'm not sure if it's worth the hassle. I'm hearing it's more likely to get one with sketchy history and/or cooked mileage clock, so it seems risky. Also, I'd rather have km on the dashboard, I find miles confusing. I'm still on the fence, but leaning towards an Irish used car from a main dealer as opposed to UK import.

In terms of finance, I'd like to cover the bulk with the car allowance, so PCP makes sense if I can reconcile with the mileage. I can give a deposit of up to â‚¬2k, but the bulk of my cash will be tied in with the insurance. The less I pay out of pocket, the better.

This will be the first insurance in my name after getting my license in 2016, so I'm looking at quotes in the ballpark of â‚¬2500-2700p.a. I have no named driver experience, so this can go south easily.

Any thoughts or tips on car choice / requirements / budget / finance/ insurance?

Thank you in advance!

bazz26 · 03-05-2019 05:26PM

I wouldn't fancy doing that distance regularly in a small car. Those cars are primarily designed as city cars, not long distance drivers. You should be looking at something a bit bigger that will give you a bit more comfort so that your not in bits after a long drive before you actually start work.

Also are these long trips to and from customers because that will have a bearing on the type and cost of insurance you will have to get? You are then into the realm of driving as part of your job and on behalf of your employer rather than just commuting. In other words your job starts as soon as you get into your car rather than when you get out of it. You then have to consider the extra business mileage as a factor of heavier depreciation on the car you bought and own.

Shefwedfan · 03-05-2019 06:09PM

Ok I am a little unclear with your description

You mention BIK, which means the company buys a car and gives to you
But the rest of the post is about you buying a car.

I would guess you are on a system the same as me. So you get a monthly fee for having a car but it is paid into salary and you pay tax on it. This is not BIK.

Can you ask the company to just buy a car for you ? instead of the monthly fee?

Grab All Association · 03-05-2019 06:16PM

It pains me to say this,
With mileage like that, I think you’ll need a diesel.

Damien360 · 03-05-2019 06:19PM

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Ok I am a little unclear with your description

Are you getting a company car? the company owns it and gives it to you to drive
Or are you buying a car and the company gives you an allowance?

I think you are option B. That means BIK is not involved.

I'll add to that. Is that 650pm allowance before tax. Highly likely so you will have 325pm cash to work with. The company is paying your buisness mileage at what rate ? Not usually all paid. Will be a mileage rate. If you are buying, why are they putting insurance amounts allowed to you ?

If on the other hand the company is giving you a 650 allowance and they are purchasing, you will be paying BIK on a brand new price regardless of age of the car. This will have fuel fully covered typically except private miles at an agreed rate. So based on your mileage, your BIK is 18% of car new car value per year (depending on your pay bracket, that is 9% out of your pocket).

Companies cannot reclaim vat on petrol so if they are purchasing, it will be diesel.

Shefwedfan · 03-05-2019 06:39PM

As above you need to figure out what you are been offered. I would guess you are getting 650 into wages and the pay tax

In that situation I would go to company and ask can you get a company car. It would cost you a fortune to keep a car on the road and 650 before tax is nothing, especially with the high mileage

tedpan · 03-05-2019 06:48PM

Grab All Association wrote:

It pains me to say this, With mileage like that, I think youâ€™ll need a diesel.

I do 35k kms in my leaf annually in perfect electric comfort!

Shefwedfan · 03-05-2019 07:02PM

tedpan wrote: »

I do 35k kms in my leaf annually in perfect electric comfort!

Dublin to Cork on a regular basis

Unless getting a 64kWh Kona or similar then electric is non starter

Shefwedfan · 03-05-2019 07:03PM

Grab All Association wrote: »

It pains me to say this,
With mileage like that, I think you’ll need a diesel.

If the OP goes company car then diesel or electric are best options

edora91 · 03-05-2019 07:06PM

The company is not buying cars anymore, I'm just getting a car cash allowance with the conditions mentioned. Mileage goes on a fuel card and I'm supposed to declare a percentage for personal use, i.e. 5-10% for personal use would be taxed (BIK?), the rest is covered as business purposes.
I thought about diesel, but I'm worried it will drive the insurance premium even higher and this is money out of my pocket. Same with car size.
Comfort is an issue, safety as well, since I'm likely to spend a good chunk of the driving time in (conference) calls.
I'm still a bit confused around the insurance policies, likely will have to get some business coverage (class 1?). I'm not carrying people of products, just myself and the occasional colleague.
I often grab a ride with the sales reps and live 20 min walk/10 min drive from the office, so my personal commute time is much shorter. I wouldn't be surprised if I drive much less, but time will show. I'd rather be prepared for 35k and drive 20k than vice versa.

Shefwedfan · 03-05-2019 07:20PM

You should just pay for fuel off the car, I don’t think you need to use BIK

You need to forget about the 650, that’s not what you are getting, if you look at the company car thread on here it has calculator so you can work out how much extra per month you will get into your hand after tax. Then I would get onto your insurance and get advice, what will keep the cost down

The look at cars, really you need a diesel as you won’t have 40k to buy a long range electric. Get something practical , Ford diesel are boring but they are great for long driving and are solid as a rock, I done similar mileage a few years back and I drive the ass out of 2 mondeos over 4 years

edora91 · 03-05-2019 07:30PM

Shefwedfan wrote:

You need to forget about the 650, thatâ€™s not what you are getting, if you look at the company car thread on here it has calculator so you can work out how much extra per month you will get into your hand after tax. Then I would get onto your insurance and get advice, what will keep the cost down

I'm currently doing my spreadsheet with the budget assuming I will have about 45% net after tax, hence the car budget I've set. I will have another look at the Fords, thanks for the tip!

Damien360 · 03-05-2019 07:33PM

Right so. Your allowance is 325pm cash after tax to cover car tax, insurance, finance, running cost including tyres. Fuel by fuel card is fine. The BIK is hard to calculate as you can get up to the state allowances but anything over is taxable as BIK. Look up mileage rate allowances on revenue site and calculate for 35000km.

Work out your affordability on 325pm. Finance insurance by monthly installments. The biggest problem with this is upfront payments and how good your company is at paying in good time. Time your financial withdrawals to come after payment. Set aside money for tyres, servicing etc.

A few colleagues run cars instead of company cars, but they don't get a fuel card but claim a mileage back at civil service rates and therefore do not pay BIK.

Insurance class 1 for buisness is expensive and I fail to see it's benefit. But maybe legally you have to get it. I wonder how many people really do have it.

You can decide on car and age. 35000km per year is closing in on diesel. You will have far more choice with diesel in second hand market. It's also enough mileage to consider larger or more comfortable than you stated above. You wanted low tax (200 or less). That's principally diesel cars.

edora91 · 03-05-2019 08:16PM

Shefwedfan wrote:

Unless getting a 64kWh Kona or similar then electric is non starter

Electric with a plug won't work,even if distance is okay, getting a charger at home will be an issue as I rent.
I'd rather get a conventional car and look into electric next time I'm in the market, i.e. in 3-4 years time when the technology is more mature. I wouldn't mind trying out one of these E-Golfs :-)
Self-charging hybrid could work though, in so far as it's effective both in town and on the motorway. From my talks with hybrid can drivers, it sounds like efficiency diminishes over time, so I'd be looking at getting a new battery before long.

OldMrBrennan83 · 03-05-2019 08:19PM

edora91 wrote: »

Electric with a plug won't work,even if distance is okay, getting a charger at home will be an issue as I rent.
I'd rather get a conventional car and look into electric next time I'm in the market, i.e. in 3-4 years time when the technology is more mature. I wouldn't mind trying out one of these E-Golfs :-)
Self-charging hybrid could work though, in so far as it's effective both in town and on the motorway. From my talks with hybrid can drivers, it sounds like efficiency diminishes over time, so I'd be looking at getting a new battery before long.

Is it not the plug-in hybrids that work on the motorway? 'Self charging hybrid' just seems to be Toyota marketing speak.

Shefwedfan · 03-05-2019 08:22PM

edora91 wrote: »

Electric with a plug won't work,even if distance is okay, getting a charger at home will be an issue as I rent.
I'd rather get a conventional car and look into electric next time I'm in the market, i.e. in 3-4 years time when the technology is more mature. I wouldn't mind trying out one of these E-Golfs :-)
Self-charging hybrid could work though, in so far as it's effective both in town and on the motorway. From my talks with hybrid can drivers, it sounds like efficiency diminishes over time, so I'd be looking at getting a new battery before long.

I have eGolf :P

I can't bring myself to say the other word, standard hybrid you are restricted mostly to Toyota and Lexus. Lexus will be outside budget so Toyota. The new models are lovely but the price has gone up. I was looking at RAV4 for my other car and it is 40k new :eek:

If you are doing that long range Cork-Dublin on a regular basis then really diesel is the option. You could go big like Mondeo/Passat etc. Personally I would drop down a size. Golf diesel or Audi A3 diesel. Both are the same car just the Audi is a nicer place to be. You can get high spec Golf;s which will be similar to the Audi only a good bit cheaper......

All in, as you are on first run out a diesel Golf with a high spec, you can'tgo far wrong with them and they will resell, even with high mileage

The Black Oil · 03-05-2019 09:34PM

I bought a Yaris Hybrid in the UK in 2016. Odo is in miles, speedo has kms and miles. Handy if you're ever driving in the North. I commute on the M1 and M50. Don't have to make many longer journeys, bar family stuff, or bank holiday weekends. I've put 27,000 miles on it, already had 26k when I picked it up. I like it, but might have another view were I doing higher annual mileage and in another job (bar the odd trip off site it sits in the car park at work). I've never heard anything about replacing the battery. Don't pay much heed to Toyota's PR. Happy car hunting.

edora91 · 03-05-2019 09:49PM

Shefwedfan wrote: »

I have eGolf :P

I can't bring myself to say the other word, standard hybrid you are restricted mostly to Toyota and Lexus. Lexus will be outside budget so Toyota. The new models are lovely but the price has gone up. I was looking at RAV4 for my other car and it is 40k new :eek:

If you are doing that long range Cork-Dublin on a regular basis then really diesel is the option. You could go big like Mondeo/Passat etc. Personally I would drop down a size. Golf diesel or Audi A3 diesel. Both are the same car just the Audi is a nicer place to be. You can get high spec Golf;s which will be similar to the Audi only a good bit cheaper......

All in, as you are on first run out a diesel Golf with a high spec, you can'tgo far wrong with them and they will resell, even with high mileage

The new prices are high alright, I was wondering if I’m on the right page when I ran the Volkswagen configurator for a 191/192 model. The eGolf looks like a dream if you’re going electric. What’s your experience so far?

Agreed, a Golf just seems very balanced and covers most of the basics. I drove a manual one for a bit and I’m pretty happy with it. Ideally I’d love a cheaper first car, but I can’t afford to go car shopping every year, so I need something to tide me over for a while and retain some value for the next deposit. This one ticks the boxes, even if slightly over budget. I’m starting to think of it is an office on wheels....

I found a few Golfs under EUR20k with reasonable 3-4y mileage:
https://www2.volkswagen.ie/en/used-cars/34582
https://www2.volkswagen.ie/en/used-cars/34325
https://www2.volkswagen.ie/en/used-cars/32274
https://www2.volkswagen.ie/en/used-cars/10929
https://www2.volkswagen.ie/en/used-cars/15241
https://www2.volkswagen.ie/en/used-cars/15636
Any thoughts on these?

My understanding is I would need to find a Comfortline+extras or Highline to get the parking sensors, etc. Anything else I should watch out for with the Golfs? Any experience with the DSG automatic gearbox?

ddarcy · 03-05-2019 10:10PM

I was in a similar situation to you not to long ago. I went with the Golf highline. I don’t have the auto gearbox, but the manual suites me just fine.

The highline has the sensors and reverse camera as well. You might find some comfort lines with that too.

I’ll throw an odd one out there anyways, what about the Peugeot 308? I preferred the Golf over it but I know some people really like it.

There is also the new Ford Focus. It has a feature to automatically parallel park for you if you need it. It would come in less than a Golf anyways.

Casati · 04-05-2019 08:31AM

https://m.carsireland.ie/detail.php?ad_id=2067408&r=s.php%3Fm%3D72%26o%3D619%26f%3D2%26t%3D2%26yn%3D2015%26g%3D0

Megane’s are v comfortable if doing a lot of driving and much cheaper than a Golf. Likely to be more reliable too - wasn’t always like that but since 2009 they have been good cars

Seat Leon has same mechanicals as the Golf. Spec is a bit lower but they are a lot cheaper too - your looking at 1.6 DSG and they are quite popular

V rare to see auto Focus diesel but they are another good option if you find one.

Shefwedfan · 04-05-2019 08:39AM

Go auto, if you can get adaptive cruise then get it. Self parking is a waste of time but some people like it.

Really auto, the days of manual are dying fast, especially if doing big mileage you will not regret it

edora91 · 04-05-2019 09:19AM

Thank you for the tips, I definitely need to widen my options. I have the license for a manual, but diving so much is going to be tiring at best, I’ve pretty much ruled it out as a health hazard. Otherwise I’d be looking at getting one of these sporty Fiat 500, I’ve been dreaming of driving one of these since I was a kid!

I don’t see many used Seat cars with the parameters I’m looking for. The next VW group option is Skoda. I read somewhere they’re a generation behind the VW models, but I’m not sure how much this would impact performance and reliability...

I didn’t realise used Renault come with 2 year warranty, this could be a nice bonus. Any experiences with their automatics?

Shefwedfan · 04-05-2019 09:37AM

Whats your budget? 20K?

Shefwedfan · 04-05-2019 09:50AM

https://www.carsireland.ie/detail.php?ad_id=2242450&r=s.php%3Fm%3D93%26o%3D812%26g%3D14%26z%3D-8

https://www.carzone.ie/used-cars/volkswagen/golf/used-2016-161-volkswagen-golf-1-6tdi-carlow-fpa-201903296406399?SOURCE_ID=SOURCE_ID_FPA_FROM_FEAT_LIST

I dont like carsireland as you dont seem to get the spec. I use carzone

The carzone one has adaptive etc. Also if you buy from a main dealer use VW bank. They should be offering more competitve rates than the Banks with 6+% interest.

Please note I have no vested interest in VW. I see Renault etc posted above. All options but the Renault will lose a fortune and the Skoda's can be an awful place to be in. Seat are nice but rare in Ireland, Seat are only making a push in last 12 months.

You are not 100% on what mileage you are doing so for your first car while doing the job I would go with something which is reliable and will be nice place to be. If you do large mileage then you will still be able to resell but if you dont it will hold it's value and you can sell on. The Golf ticks all those boxes.

Of course it depends, I am a VW person. Like the interior, layout etc. Some people are not. So test drive one. I do advise adaptive cruise if possible as it is great for motorway driving.....

Casati · 04-05-2019 10:15AM

Shefwedfan wrote: »

https://www.carsireland.ie/detail.php?ad_id=2242450&r=s.php%3Fm%3D93%26o%3D812%26g%3D14%26z%3D-8

https://www.carzone.ie/used-cars/volkswagen/golf/used-2016-161-volkswagen-golf-1-6tdi-carlow-fpa-201903296406399?SOURCE_ID=SOURCE_ID_FPA_FROM_FEAT_LIST

I dont like carsireland as you dont seem to get the spec. I use carzone

The carzone one has adaptive etc. Also if you buy from a main dealer use VW bank. They should be offering more competitve rates than the Banks with 6+% interest.

Please note I have no vested interest in VW. I see Renault etc posted above. All options but the Renault will lose a fortune and the Skoda's can be an awful place to be in. Seat are nice but rare in Ireland, Seat are only making a push in last 12 months.

You are not 100% on what mileage you are doing so for your first car while doing the job I would go with something which is reliable and will be nice place to be. If you do large mileage then you will still be able to resell but if you dont it will hold it's value and you can sell on. The Golf ticks all those boxes.

Of course it depends, I am a VW person. Like the interior, layout etc. Some people are not. So test drive one. I do advise adaptive cruise if possible as it is great for motorway driving.....

Golf is a fine car but 20k for a 2016 is huge money for a small car with just one year warranty left, buying at this level will see heavy depreciation over the next three years as well as potential for out of warranty repair costs

Skoda Octavia is another good option, v comfortable and interior is v similar to the VW’s too. They are based on the same platform as the Golf too, often Skoda get the latest engine options before VW so are certainly not a generation behind

Casati · 04-05-2019 10:20AM

Casati wrote: »

Golf is a fine car but 20k for a 2016 is huge money for a small car with just one year warranty left, buying at this level will see heavy depreciation over the next three years as well as potential for out of warranty repair costs

Skoda Octavia is another good option, v comfortable and interior is v similar to the VW’s too. They are based on the same platform as the Golf too, often Skoda get the latest engine options before VW so are certainly not a generation behind

This 2018 Leon DSG looks v cheap. With main Seat dealer & two years manufacturers warranty too. Probably drop the price a fair bit and potentially do a a pcp finance also

https://www.donedeal.ie/cars-for-sale/seat-leon-1-6tdi-115hp-se-auto/20700071

SE is a similar to Golf Comfortline spec - has cruise but not adaptive, rear sensors but no camera, no sat nav but should have apple car play option. This one has desirable 17in alloy upgrade

Shefwedfan · 04-05-2019 11:40AM

Casati wrote: »

Golf is a fine car but 20k for a 2016 is huge money for a small car with just one year warranty left, buying at this level will see heavy depreciation over the next three years as well as potential for out of warranty repair costs

Skoda Octavia is another good option, v comfortable and interior is v similar to the VW’s too. They are based on the same platform as the Golf too, often Skoda get the latest engine options before VW so are certainly not a generation behind

They will see heavy depreciation anyway because of mileage. But take that out of it, why exactly would they see heavy depreciation?

I don't see loads of 151/141 Golfs for sale very cheap? if anything they are holding value better than any of the other cars in market

Casati · 04-05-2019 01:30PM

Shefwedfan wrote: »

They will see heavy depreciation anyway because of mileage. But take that out of it, why exactly would they see heavy depreciation?

I don't see loads of 151/141 Golfs for sale very cheap? if anything they are holding value better than any of the other cars in market

Golfs are typically sold up to four/ five year old through main dealers with massive overinflated price tags, when you get them outside main dealers the prices drop massively, get older or higher mileage you can see tonnes of them at small money, eg a friend was offered a v clean 2013 1.6 TDI with 80k last week for 6k. Say it was an auto higher spec it might fetch 8k, meaning 12k in depreciation over 3 years

That Leon I listed could be bought for 18k but in three years would still be worth north of 10k - so 8k depreciation over three years. Obviously based on current prices so can’t be sure of what the future holds.

Golfs are a v popular car to import from the UK where they are cheap over four year old or when they hit higher mileage and loads of them swim across every week

Idbatterim · 04-05-2019 01:53PM

Depreciation is likely going to be your biggest cost by far with 35,000 km a year. I’m not saying it’s huge mileage, but it’s enough.

Bass Reeves · 04-05-2019 03:04PM

OP if I was you I start looking for another job. Yor employer is starting to penny pinch. If you are doing 25-30K KM a year and your employers is unwilling to give you a company car there is something drastically wrong. even with a fuel card you are going to end up sudsdizing your company business out of your wages. This sh!t about a fuel card for fuel is another red herring. Any car putting up 35K a year will depreciate drastically. Car's with over 200K( and this is diesels) 8-10 years old are unsalable and garages do not want to trade them in.

325/month works out at 3900/year. This is to cover Maintenance, Insurance, Car tax and depreciation. Taking any car with a value of 18K with average mileage second hand it will only be worth 4-5K in 4 years time with another 140K on it. That is depreciation of 13-14K. Insurance will cost you in the region of 1000-1500 euro for business class insurance. With that mileage you can expect to pay about 1500-2K at least in servicing, tyres and maintenance along with car tax and NCT costs. The real sting is the insurance risk you are taking on any accident will drive your insurance costs well up above 2K and doing that sort of mileage driving long distances in all weather rises the risk of accident or incidents.

Looking at the costs over 4 years. I would estimate your real cost excluding fuel which your employer will pay 85-90% of will be in the region of 6500 minimum/year or 550/month. Unless your company is willing to pay mileage at civil service rates any other proposal will end up costing you money.

However if you do intend to carry and purchase I consider a low mileage 7-8 year old 2L diesel. Cars like Mondeo's, Avensis's, IX40's with 150-180K in KM can all be bought for around 7.5K ish. These cars are designed for putting up high mileage and would jsut about break even money wise for you.

If you want to make money after costs as your employer is paying for fuel go back to a 10 year old petrol guzzler like an Toyota Avensis below
https://www.donedeal.ie/cars-for-sale/toyota-avensis-1-8-vvt-i-luna-automatic-nct-tax/21447897

At this price it is overpiced by 2K at least and will struggle to do 3O mpg as you go 120 KPH up the motorway but your employer will be paying for the petrol so who cares. As these are considered Granddad cars insurane will not be loaded as nuch as on overpriced GOlfs or POLO's. Pay 2-300 euro to get a good car phone kit installed and it will do 4 years+ if you can keep it between the ditches. Another petrol choice would be a automatic petrol SUV like a Honda CRV, Toyota RAV or a Ford KUGA at least 10 years old however you would be trading extra cost for comfort. All would seriously disappoint your penny pinching employer as his fuel costs would be near double your present choice's

Shefwedfan · 04-05-2019 04:03PM

Casati wrote: »

Golfs are typically sold up to four/ five year old through main dealers with massive overinflated price tags, when you get them outside main dealers the prices drop massively, get older or higher mileage you can see tonnes of them at small money, eg a friend was offered a v clean 2013 1.6 TDI with 80k last week for 6k. Say it was an auto higher spec it might fetch 8k, meaning 12k in depreciation over 3 years

That Leon I listed could be bought for 18k but in three years would still be worth north of 10k - so 8k depreciation over three years. Obviously based on current prices so can’t be sure of what the future holds.

Golfs are a v popular car to import from the UK where they are cheap over four year old or when they hit higher mileage and loads of them swim across every week

You can resolve all of the above by just going back to the main dealer

Buying via a main dealer and buying off back street dealer is always going to have a huge price difference but then you don’t have to worry about clocking, can get extended warranty and also use VW bank for finance

Reliable small automatic for 35k km per year

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