Avengers: Endgame [ SPOILERS FROM POST 613 ]

Patser · 28-04-2019 10:15PM

Seen it today and have to say it's good, very good for the epic end battle where everyone gets a cameo (did Korg and Miek show up for the battle?)

But....

It's not nearly as good as Infinity War, and I think the main reason is the lack of a central character, who in Infinity War was Thanos. Brolins subtle, powerful, menacing but still somehow emotional Thanos in Infinity War linked everything together, provided an over riding threat and kept the film moving, with him killing Loki at the start making no one feel safe, and then wiping out half at the end.

In Endgame, he's a weakling despatched easily early on, only to reappear at end as baddie to be beaten - all subtlety gone. And instead the movie is just Avengers moping about being sad (Nat, Stark), being just there for comedy (Antman, Thor, Hulk) or just missing, background (Capt Marvel, Rhodey). With their main missions falling into same categories.

It just lacks that threat, and central theme from Infinity War.

Also as for those commenting on how jarring the All Female Super Duper posed squad was, what really jarred more for me was the Audi placement - Wow what a dramatic engine noise that electric car has when Stark returns! How long can Cap, Nat and Lang stand beside a flash rental while visiting an old friend. They have hovering jets but no let's get a car instead

Hercule Poirot · 28-04-2019 10:28PM

Finally saw this today and loved it

It had tear-jerking moments mixed with humour and some great action

A few thoughts though:

I'm assuming Loki is alive now? Because Thanos jumped forward and then died he wouldn't have been present to kill Loki (or Heimdall for that matter) at the conclusion of Ragnarok? Articles seem to focus on Loki obtaining the space stone in 2012 but that would have been redundant when Tony and Cap jumped further forward and took it in the 70's?

Great ending for Tony Stark - starts and finishes with "I am Iron Man", brilliant

Was pleased that Black Widow went, not because I disliked the character but because the obvious trope would have been for the less well known character to die - nice to go against the grain and have her die a noble death

Loved Thor, always do, and I'd love to see him in GotG3 - not likely of course and I'm sure his absence will be explained

The girl power group did seem a bit forced if I'm honest, but feck it, it's a minor criticism

The reunion between Tony and Peter nearly brought a tear to my eye

I think the criticism of Thanos being weaker this time around is unfair, he manages the majority of the Avengers and Capt Marvel without the stones, so that in itself is an achievement until he's overwhelmed by numbers

Banner as a selfie loving man of the people seemed extremely OTT, I get that he was embracing the Hulk element of who he was but it shouldn't have turned him into a grinning idiot everytime he sees a child with a phone

To conclude, not the best MCU film, will probably break all the records, but a great film to end what has been a decade in the making

Farty88 · 28-04-2019 10:38PM

Unreal film laughed cried was disappointed with the way it ended but at the same time felt fulfilled enough to say "it's ok to let go" all in all it was amazing and ended in the best possible way it could of bravo marvel a different but very satisfying film that I expected to see

Loved professor hulk and fat drunk thor
Best performance from cap and iron man

Sparko · 28-04-2019 10:43PM

Hercule Poirot wrote: »

I'm assuming Loki is alive now? Because Thanos jumped forward and then died he wouldn't have been present to kill Loki (or Heimdall for that matter) at the conclusion of Ragnarok? Articles seem to focus on Loki obtaining the space stone in 2012 but that would have been redundant when Tony and Cap jumped further forward and took it in the 70's?

My thinking on this is that you need to look at every time jump as creating its own separate timeline, because they've made it clear that you can't change your own present time by making changes in the past. Instead it creates alternative timelines.

So there is a 2012 timeline where the 2023 Avengers popped in and messed around a bit, which led to Loki getting that timelines space stone and disappearing to wherever. We don't know what he does next (yet?)

Then there's the timeline where Thanos jumped forward to 2023 and never returned, so in that timeline he didn't go to collect the stones etc so everything from that point onwards would change, and Loki would also not be killed by him as a result.

But in the "main" timeline Loki still died when he did - Thanos coming forward in time doesn't retrospectively change all the movies to date.

28-04-2019 10:49PM

they made a big mess of this imo, time travel plot was lazy and ill explained and conceived

the plot mechanics as to who did what and made no sense

what characters had the power to do from scene to scene changed at the whim of what the writers needed

big holes and long efforts at emotional beats that kept missing

final battle a mess- ugly, everyone gets a bad cgi nod, the shot with all the women my god stop.

no idea what to do with the powers of magic witch or captain marvel so just had them battering ineffectively at thanos until he battered them back

poor poor finale imo

TheIrishGrover · 28-04-2019 11:01PM

Good point. Where would you rank it in the movies? While I did really enjoy it, it certainly wasn't my favourite. For me personally:
1: Thor Ragnarok (So refreshing)
2: Iron Man 3 (Gotta love Shane Black)
3: Captain America 2 (Most interesting and thrilling of the CA movies. That lift fight)
4: Endgame (Really liked it but no alarms and no surprises)
5: Infinity (Really liked this too but kind of undermined because you never believed for a second that it was gonna stay that way - Especially since they announced so many sequels even BEFORE the snap)

As for someone who asked is Loki alive now since he has the tesseract. Isn't that how he had it at the start if Infinity Wars?

Gunmonkey · 28-04-2019 11:08PM

Nah, Loki spotted the Tesseract in Odins vault while dropping the skull helm in the fire to awaken Surtur in Ragnarok. So implied he grabbed it then.

klose · 28-04-2019 11:19PM

Off topic but it always amazes me when I see avatar so far and away in the number one spot to this date, was their as much hype for the film at the time? Why did it succeed so well? Because it was a cgi fest?

Foxtrol · 28-04-2019 11:32PM

klose wrote: »

Off topic but it always amazes me when I see avatar so far and away in the number one spot to this date, was their as much hype for the film at the time? Why did it succeed so well? Because it was a cgi fest?

First movie to really use 3D so had a huge novelty factor to get audience in and the huge run was helped by no real competition so stayed in theaters for ages.

SaltSweatSugar · 28-04-2019 11:34PM

Tazzimus wrote: »

I would love to see that film.
Oh hi guys, we're just going to destroy this guy's house now, cos he called me a dickhead online again, no big deal.

I totally read that in his voice. I adore Korg, he was one of the highlights of Ragnarok for me. Loved him in Endgame too, wasn’t expecting to see him again.

Ave Sodalis · 28-04-2019 11:44PM

Just watched it again with my partner who hasn't had a chance to see it. It was completely ruined by someone in front who would not stop talking at full volume (even shouting over the movie to make herself heard). Talking about the movie, granted, but still would not shut up.

shamrock55 · 28-04-2019 11:47PM

Just back from cinema and wow what a load of ****e that was, as I said to a friend if I had a time machine I'd go back 2.5hrs and not go in the door of the cinema

Mokuba · 28-04-2019 11:53PM

I've a feeling that this is going to be like The Force Awakens whereby everybody is extremely positive about it initially but upon some thought and reflection it is held in less high esteem.

It is certainly, in my opinion, a far inferior movie to Infinity War at the very least, with numerous holes, conveniences and more which the Russos hope you will overlook because of all the fan service.

shamrock55 · 28-04-2019 11:58PM

It's up there with lego movie 2 as the worst movie I've seen in 2019

Foxtrol · 29-04-2019 12:07AM

Went to see it again today and held up really well, it really is such an epic achievement. Obviously for most of it the sense of tension was taken away, but the final battle scene still gave me goosebumps (I caught a lot more that I missed the first time) and felt the emotion of the death way more than I expected. Like the end of IW, Tom Holland adds so much to the scene. The addition of a young Spiderman, especially with him taking the role, allowed a whole new perspective to the last few movies and they would have been the worse for not making that deal with Sony to get him.

Few thoughts:

On time travel, they seemed to be at pains to say that the key for there not to be alternate timelines is to return the infinity stones to the right time and that time will self right itself otherwise. I think it could hold up in some ways, like Captain America staying back, but I don't see how Thanos leaving his timeline and dying could. Maybe they'll come out with an explanation that Tony snapped his finger and sent all the 'bad guys' back to their time, but that somehow Thanos kept some memory/vision of Tony (which is what he talks about when they meet).

Drumpot, I caught that question and confusion from Tony as well about the date of the pregnancy. That couldn't have been an accident and they must be keeping some option open for later story lines. Not sure how much of a fan I'd be of going that route with any of the current cast or trying to shoehorn something in.

Can see them definitely using the snaps to bring in either fantastic 4 or mutants. They go out of their way to say the energy output (mostly gamma) has never been seen before and there was 3 on earth in the space of 5 years, with the other planet seeing a snap being uninhabited.

Ave Sodalis · 29-04-2019 12:13AM

Foxtrol wrote:

Drumpot, I caught that question and confusion from Tony as well about the date of the pregnancy. That couldn't have been an accident and they must be keeping some option open for later story lines. Not sure how much of a fan I'd be of going that route with any of the current cast or trying to shoehorn something in.

I just took it to mean that he never really thought about it, or thought that his father particularly cared enough to mention it.

Foxtrol · 29-04-2019 12:16AM

Mokuba wrote: »

I've a feeling that this is going to be like The Force Awakens whereby everybody is extremely positive about it initially but upon some thought and reflection it is held in less high esteem.

It is certainly, in my opinion, a far inferior movie to Infinity War at the very least, with numerous holes, conveniences and more which the Russos hope you will overlook because of all the fan service.

Decent chance of that trend, but it'll probably be more so due to the hardcore fans seeing it early and being satisfied, whereas it won't work as a standalone and people who have only seen a few MCU movies won't get near the payoff.

pah · 29-04-2019 12:30AM

In relation to the time travel and the multiverse theory. It's generally accepted that there are infinite possible alternate realities out there but I wonder does going back in your timeline to specifically make changes and artificially causing branches to your own original timeline going to create some of the multiverse worlds that we might see in future movies?

Specifically Loki disappearing with the tesseract in 2012 and Thanos disappearing from 2014?

It seems to be following Star Trek 2009 rules relating to alternate timelines, In a similar way to Cap going back at the end to live out his life while the younger version of himself is frozen in the ice waiting to be awoken around 2012. Spock goes back in time and lives out the end of his life while the younger version of himself continues with his life on the enterprise. It's just that Older Cap doesn't impact the timeline much to cause any notice, compared to Star Trek where Nero followed Spock back and ended up causing massive changes.

nix · 29-04-2019 12:38AM

shamrock55 wrote: »

It's up there with lego movie 2 as the worst movie I've seen in 2019

And whats your favourite so far? :pac:

ceegee · 29-04-2019 12:56AM

Drumpot wrote: »

Saw it again and still not sure how I feel about it. 7-10 still feels fair. I think noisy people don’t help also in convinced the sound was a millisecond behind the visual.

One thing I noticed was Tony being a bit confused when his dad said his wife was pregnant(in the lift). Almost like the date didn’t match up with what Tony thought or something like that. Not sure if that’s an opening for something else maybe?

Also makes a difference when you are at a screening with people who get all the jokes and the nods. The Crowd today were more casual viewers who didn’t get some of the nods like the Cap in the lift with hydra or even the Cap v Cap “yeh I know”!!!

The date Tony gave to Cap to go back to was 7th April 1970, he was born May 29th so he shouldn't have been surprised to hear she was pregnant.

Foxtrol · 29-04-2019 01:02AM

ceegee wrote: »

The date Tony gave to Cap to go back to was 7th April 1970, he was born May 29th so he shouldn't have been surprised to hear she was pregnant.

That's good to know. Seemed awkwardly scripted/acted though. Tony was a bit vague about how he knew that time was when they should travel to, maybe his parents had told him stories about working there when he was due to be born and Pym came up at some point.

pah · 29-04-2019 02:51AM

shamrock55 wrote: »

Just back from cinema and wow what a load of ****e that was, as I said to a friend if I had a time machine I'd go back 2.5hrs and not go in the door of the cinema

If you went back 2.5 hrs you'd be 30 mins into the movie.

Good lad.

IncognitoMan · 29-04-2019 03:32AM

pah wrote: »

If you went back 2.5 hrs you'd be 30 mins into the movie.

Good lad.

Maybe he really enjoyed the opening 30 minutes :pac:

FunLover18 · 29-04-2019 03:50AM

I am so tired of people asking "how did all the female characters find each other?". F*ck. Off.

How much time was there between Hulk snapping everyone back and the battle, five, maybe ten minutes. How did they manage to recap everyone in time for the battle? How did Wakanda gather their forces so quickly? So did everyone manage to find a wizard to magic up a portal so quickly? But no, a group of people, who are already on the same battlefield, finding each othee is the stupid bit!?!? Yes, it's pandering and the MCU isn't nearly representative as it should be or thinks it is but as a man who's seen male action heros stand and fight together is pretty much every single one of these movies (in most movie tbh) I can't even imagine what it must have felt like for a young girl seeing that kind of female empowering on the big screen and f*ck anyone who thinks they're being edgy or in any way clever for sh*tting on it. You're just being a d*ck.

29-04-2019 04:00AM

FunLover18 wrote:

How much time was there between Hulk snapping everyone back and the battle, five, maybe ten minutes. How did they manage to recap everyone in time for the battle? How did Wakanda gather their forces so quickly? So did everyone manage to find a wizard to magic up a portal so quickly? But no, a group of people, who are already on the same battlefield, finding each othee is the stupid bit!?!? Yes, it's pandering and the MCU isn't nearly representative as it should be or thinks it is but as a man who's seen male action heros stand and fight together is pretty much every single one of these movies (in most movie tbh) I can't even imagine what it must have felt like for a young girl seeing that kind of female empowering on the big screen and f*ck anyone who thinks they're being edgy or in any way clever for sh*tting on it. You're just being a d*ck.

I've always wondered what type of horse a white knight would ride.

Apparently it's a high one.

pah · 29-04-2019 04:13AM

FunLover18 wrote: »

I am so tired of people asking "how did all the female characters find each other?". F*ck. Off.

How much time was there between Hulk snapping everyone back and the battle, five, maybe ten minutes. How did they manage to recap everyone in time for the battle? How did Wakanda gather their forces so quickly? So did everyone manage to find a wizard to magic up a portal so quickly? But no, a group of people, who are already on the same battlefield, finding each othee is the stupid bit!?!? Yes, it's pandering and the MCU isn't nearly representative as it should be or thinks it is but as a man who's seen male action heros stand and fight together is pretty much every single one of these movies (in most movie tbh) I can't even imagine what it must have felt like for a young girl seeing that kind of female empowering on the big screen and f*ck anyone who thinks they're being edgy or in any way clever for sh*tting on it. You're just being a d*ck.

I must say it stood out to me as a little bit forced the first time I saw it. On second viewing not as much. (Everyone also appears to be magically on Comms with each other)

Cap says "Danvers we need an assist here" and Carol lands next to Peter to get the gauntlet, wouldn't be hard to spot her she's lit up like an xmas tree, Plenty time for them to gravitate toward her for backup.

My girls 15, 11 and 6 all let out an audible gasp as that scene progressed which was awesome.

Fukk the begrudgers

Podge_irl · 29-04-2019 04:41AM

I mostly thought it was stupid as she clearly didn’t need their help. I didn’t even cop that they were all women at the time and still thought it was a poorly done scene.

“How will you get through all that?”

Dunno mate, probably the same way she just flew through a ship and destroyed it.

Agent Coulson · 29-04-2019 05:44AM

Anyone else think RDJ really didn't look healthy in the film?

The White Wolf · 29-04-2019 06:50AM

klose wrote: »

Off topic but it always amazes me when I see avatar so far and away in the number one spot to this date, was their as much hype for the film at the time? Why did it succeed so well? Because it was a cgi fest?

Cameron just seems to be a god over in America and elsewhere. Remember Titanic came before Avatar in the BO smashing stakes.

29-04-2019 08:59AM

I am worried about seeing it again TBH.
Now that I will know the emotional beats ahead of time I fear the the whole time travel house of cards will tumble down on a second viewing.

I knew that they were creating massive holes in the timeline plot like... fine you are not changing the present by changing the past rather you are creating a different universe; so, you are now in that universe, how do you get back to your "present" if that is not in the future of the universe you just spun out?

I fear that they have made it a convoluted mess that I just did not have time to think of due to the pacing (didn't want to either as I was enjoying it) but will not be avoidable on repeat.

Avengers: Endgame [** SPOILERS FROM POST 613 **]

Comments

Avengers: Endgame [ SPOILERS FROM POST 613 ]