Avengers: Endgame [ SPOILERS FROM POST 613 ]

The White Wolf · 27-04-2019 02:21AM

All credit to Alan Silvestri; he's crafted an almighty score over a number of films. His Avengers theme and the variations are right up there with the best.

Penn · 27-04-2019 03:16AM

Overheal wrote: »

I was SO FREAKING PUMPED for an encore fight, too! In a weird way I was both disappointed and impressed with how he handled it.

Yet in another way I wonder how that will actually affect that timeline's Winter Soldier events.

My thinking is that given how Loki escapes for a while and how even 2012-Cap thought Future-Cap must have been Loki, the Hydra guys must then assume the Cap from the elevator was actually Loki too.

The whole Loki thing will be interesting to see how they resolve it. If it does lead into the Loki Disney+ show, it's almost a bit of a bummer that that's the version of Loki we'll be getting, without the character changes he went through as a result of Thor Ragnarok.

tony1980 · 27-04-2019 03:30AM

What was the noise in the post credits? Something to do with Tony Stark?

Agent Coulson · 27-04-2019 03:35AM

So will the Black Widow solo film be an origin story for Nat now?

Which is something we don't really need since she has been in 8 of the films so far without it.

For one of the major characters of the MCU her death was very throwaway considering how important it was to story I felt.

I wouldn't have minded it being a throwaway death if they had done the same with Stark and not given Cap his walkaway from the MCU.

Black Widow/Nat deserved more than just Hawkeye and Wanda hugging it out.

Kirby · 27-04-2019 03:43AM

Agent Coulson wrote: »

So will the Black Widow solo film be an origin story for Nat now?

Which is something we don't really need since she has been in 8 of the films so far without it.

For one of the major characters of the MCU her death was very throwaway considering how important it was to story I felt.

I wouldn't have minded it being a throwaway death if they had done the same with Stark and not given Cap his walkaway from the MCU.

Black Widow/Nat deserved more than just Hawkeye and Wanda hugging it out.

I really hope it's not an origin story. They are always so restricted in what they can do.

One "out" they have is that taking the soul stone requires a sacrifice. Perhaps Cap putting it back undoes the sacrifice? Just spitballing here but if I was to helm a black widow solo movie, it's the path I would take.

Victor · 27-04-2019 04:07AM

Slydice wrote: »

We can still have a Captain America at the end, but either he also came back from his original Universe or maybe he's an imposter.

Loki on the 11th floor.

Victor · 27-04-2019 04:24AM

GavRedKing wrote: »

He has to go back to a military base under lock down to return the tesseract to a highly secure area where they were looking for a person matching his description.

1. He now knows exactly where to go, so can be in and out very quickly.
2. He has Peggy to vouch for him.

27-04-2019 07:15AM

AMKC wrote: »

Jealousy is a terrible thing. Why do they not like her?

Probably the same reason Olsen doesn't but you'll have to ask them why

27-04-2019 07:25AM

Agent Coulson wrote: »

So will the Black Widow solo film be an origin story for Nat now?

Which is something we don't really need since she has been in 8 of the films so far without it.

For one of the major characters of the MCU her death was very throwaway considering how important it was to story I felt.

I wouldn't have minded it being a throwaway death if they had done the same with Stark and not given Cap his walkaway from the MCU.

Black Widow/Nat deserved more than just Hawkeye and Wanda hugging it out.

Yeah.
She's been there since IM2, been a fan favourite, cause of major backlash about not having her own film, and got relegated to Vision levels of send-off.
Now I love me some Vision and think Bettany was excellent but he only came in half way through Ultron.

The MCU developed as much with Nat as with Cap/IM

27-04-2019 07:27AM

Victor wrote: »

1. He now knows exactly where to go, so can be in and out very quickly.
2. He has Peggy to vouch for him.

He could have Peggy do it?

F*Ck ABC for cancelling Agent Carter anyway.

27-04-2019 08:04AM

Foxtrol wrote: »

They didn’t need this shot, but they didn’t need the other clearly forced group shots either. They’re all there as ‘f*ck yeah’ moments and though this one might not resonate for you, I’m sure it did for many (especially a group that has been grossly underrepresented by the MCU thus far).

I don’t disagree with most of your points, I just feel the consistency of the complaints is over the top and a sign of hypersensitivity we see from a lot of people when it comes to blockbusters these days.

The women were already destroying it on screen, none of the other group shots were laboured in such a way.
Nobody is complaining that Wanda completely owned Thanos, people cheered (personally would have loved her to strike the killing blow on Thanos given, from her point of view, him killing Vision has JUST happened, but it was Tony's way out).

The "how and when" is the balls, not about resonating. It jarred against the story, indeed much like the Spidey flag waving nonsense.
They can and should sell the message better (they were selling it better to be fair)
I've been part of project teams with marketing and conceptual designers and yeah it prob has made me much more cynical, listening to them talk about "Hank" the target customer. I can just picture the circle jerk, in the room, story telling be damned.

The Wakandans coming through the portal got major approval from the 15 or so black people behind me because it was timed well, integrated well, flowed well, and the Wakandans are awesome. That row wasn't the only row going "fu*k yeah" even though it was targetted directly at them, everyone loved it.

So yeah, a 10 second slot can bug me. Because it broke me out of the story and I'm a cynical f*ck who thinks that those female characters deserve more effort

Penn · 27-04-2019 08:30AM

Kirby wrote: »

I really hope it's not an origin story. They are always so restricted in what they can do.

One "out" they have is that taking the soul stone requires a sacrifice. Perhaps Cap putting it back undoes the sacrifice? Just spitballing here but if I was to helm a black widow solo movie, it's the path I would take.

I don't think it's an origin story as such, but rather about what causes her to split from the Black Widow programme and what she does to cause the red in her ledger. I think that could be quite an interesting story to follow, and word is it might even go 18s and be more bloody and adult than the rest of the MCU.

TerrorFirmer · 27-04-2019 08:44AM

Really a good film and the best testament to that if how quickly those near 3 hours just pass by so effortlessly. A fitting end to a number of character arcs too.

If I had to moan about the film, I thought the first two acts were incredibly well done, but the third descended into the usual CGI-vomit that really lacked any sense of proper character or visual flair. Still entertaining mind, but it felt a bit soul-less and there was no real weight to most of it.

My biggest complaint now is that with Stark and Rogers gone, my enthusiasm for the next phase of the MCU has seriously declined. It's been a blast to follow this story arc and it couldn't last forever, but they'll be sorely missed and they were a major part of the glue holding the whole thing together. Would still be interested in GOTG3 and other linked movies, but the next wave...less so.

Some of my other thoughts/questions:

Washed up bum Thor was genuinely a riot. I seriously admire their commitment to it as well, was expecting some magical transformation but nope. Right to the end, an intensely likable beer swilling homeless vagrant. I loved it but can see why it wouldn't be for everyone to be fair.

Falcon as Captain America? What am I missing? Putting aside that Anthony Mackie/Falcon has the charisma and screen presence of a baked potato, what made Rogers Captain America was surely the super serum? Just a normal dude who usually rocks a jetpack donning the shield seems way off to me and most definitely not thrilled with the choice of actor/character.

Rogers going back in time and predictably staying there. What I don't get - and I know it's not wise to get too bogged down in the deeper questions of a 'time heist' movie....surely there would've been another Rogers still existing in that time waiting to be discovered in ice? What happened that Rogers? And surely everyone would know Peggy Carters husband was Captain America, unless he lived his life in a basement? This had me scratching my head.

Was afraid Captain Marvel was going to show up and save the day without lifting a finger. How they used her in the movie and the end-act was, to my relief, perfectly fine and she simply did her bit like the rest of them.

Not going to dwell on this too much but it seemed a bit all over the place in how it just randomly altered peoples previously established powers/abilities for plot convenience. Thor wielding two weapons and being unable to best Thanos without the gauntlet?

Paul Rudd was just great. Brilliant comic timing.

The whole scene in the Avengers Tower, particularly the clever Rogers v Rogers scenario attributable to Loki, and the absolutely amazing elevator scene with Crossbones. Even the subtle brilliance in that whole section...the way 2012 Rogers was slouched on the floor after being knocked out and his future self furtively glancing at his ass.

Overall I'm not disappointed. It's not a perfect movie or even the best Avengers movie but I have to admire how they managed to bring together 21 previous films in such a meaningful, satisfying way. Honestly, just compare that to the utter disaster and unholy mess that is the DCU with far, far less movies produced.

flazio · 27-04-2019 10:07AM

The White Wolf wrote: »

All credit to Alan Silvestri; he's crafted an almighty score over a number of films. His Avengers theme and the variations are right up there with the best.

To be fair, we've had some pretty decent composers across many of the MCU cinema and television outings.
Ramin Djawadi, Brian Tyler (who composed the current Marvel fanfare, Patrick Doyle, James Gunn compiling the Awesome Mix and over on TV Bear McCreavey, John Paesano and Trevor Morris to name a few.
Marvel music is epic.

pah · 27-04-2019 11:19AM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

The women were already destroying it on screen, none of the other group shots were laboured in such a way.
Nobody is complaining that Wanda completely owned Thanos, people cheered (personally would have loved her to strike the killing blow on Thanos given, from her point of view, him killing Vision has JUST happened, but it was Tony's way out).

The "how and when" is the balls, not about resonating. It jarred against the story, indeed much like the Spidey flag waving nonsense.
They can and should sell the message better (they were selling it better to be fair)
I've been part of project teams with marketing and conceptual designers and yeah it prob has made me much more cynical, listening to them talk about "Hank" the target customer. I can just picture the circle jerk, in the room, story telling be damned.

The Wakandans coming through the portal got major approval from the 15 or so black people behind me because it was timed well, integrated well, flowed well, and the Wakandans are awesome. That row wasn't the only row going "fu*k yeah" even though it was targetted directly at them, everyone loved it.

So yeah, a 10 second slot can bug me. Because it broke me out of the story and I'm a cynical f*ck who thinks that those female characters deserve more effort

I think the majority here are in agreement, the sentiment was good but the execution was poor.

Guy:Incognito · 27-04-2019 11:43AM

RickBlaine wrote: »

Imagine if someone's wife was lost in the snap and within the five years he moved on, met another woman and got married.

Then the first wife was brought back. From her point of view, no time has passed (based on Peter's chat with Tony). How messed up is that situation.

Castaway?

Guy:Incognito · 27-04-2019 11:45AM

Sparko wrote: »

I wonder where everyone reappeared after Hulk's snap. Was it where they originally got dusted?

Say you were dusted on a plane, did you reappear in midair? That'd be a tough break - dead, back, splat.

What if you werent dusted but the pilots were and you died in the crash. Harsh.

27-04-2019 11:52AM

Ha. As much as I did enjoy it at the time, they've really ****ed up the franchise going forward with all the time travel and ambiguity.

It's definitely a great popcorn film and a great END, but as a film to reflect on or as a launchpad for a new generation of films, it's absolute gash.

Guy:Incognito · 27-04-2019 12:32PM

micks_address wrote: »

So in caps altered timeline he goes back in time spends life with Peggy.. does she still get Alzheimer's or perhaps they have kids and one or those kids gets caps powers..

Maybe Sam is their kid ............. :pac::pac::pac:

Paddy Cow · 27-04-2019 01:00PM

AMKC wrote: »

Jealousy is a terrible thing. Why do they not like her?

She's got the personality of a cactus. Very prickly and nothing to be jealous of.

27-04-2019 01:52PM

pah wrote: »

I think the majority here are in agreement, the sentiment was good but the execution was poor.

My post in TLDR version

Foxtrol · 27-04-2019 02:16PM

Deleted User wrote: »

The women were already destroying it on screen, none of the other group shots were laboured in such a way.
Nobody is complaining that Wanda completely owned Thanos, people cheered (personally would have loved her to strike the killing blow on Thanos given, from her point of view, him killing Vision has JUST happened, but it was Tony's way out).

The "how and when" is the balls, not about resonating. It jarred against the story, indeed much like the Spidey flag waving nonsense.
They can and should sell the message better (they were selling it better to be fair)
I've been part of project teams with marketing and conceptual designers and yeah it prob has made me much more cynical, listening to them talk about "Hank" the target customer. I can just picture the circle jerk, in the room, story telling be damned.

The Wakandans coming through the portal got major approval from the 15 or so black people behind me because it was timed well, integrated well, flowed well, and the Wakandans are awesome. That row wasn't the only row going "fu*k yeah" even though it was targetted directly at them, everyone loved it.

So yeah, a 10 second slot can bug me. Because it broke me out of the story and I'm a cynical f*ck who thinks that those female characters deserve more effort

Again, I don’t disagree with most of that (though I found the group shots in Avengers and AoU just as labored), but my point is that the need some feel to comment on it far outweighs the ‘bugging’ the 10 second slot caused or deserved.

I don’t remember a consistent complaint after the original Spiderman movie being that flag scene. People just accepted it as 10 seconds of forced pandering during a movie they enjoyed and moved on, whereas in our current climate and because it is a group of women it looks like many feel the need to push back on it.

27-04-2019 03:07PM

Foxtrol wrote: »

Again, I don’t disagree with most of that (though I found the group shots in Avengers and AoU just as labored), but my point is that the need some feel to comment on it far outweighs the ‘bugging’ the 10 second slot caused or deserved.

It's not the 10 sec shot, it's the breaking of immersion. Lasts longer than 10 seconds for an unnecessary sequence.
Did something like that need to be there? Arguably yes
Should it have been written better? Yes
Did they completely over egg it? Yes

It's not what they were trying to do that warrants comment, it's how badly they did it.

I understand that you're not, in principal, disagreeing and I had my fill of marketing types so am more prone to the roll eyes when it's so ham-fisted than most. So we're prob not going to be able to close that gap.

Foxtrol · 27-04-2019 03:58PM

Deleted User wrote: »

It's not the 10 sec shot, it's the breaking of immersion. Lasts longer than 10 seconds for an unnecessary sequence.
Did something like that need to be there? Arguably yes
Should it have been written better? Yes
Did they completely over egg it? Yes

It's not what they were trying to do that warrants comment, it's how badly they did it.

I understand that you're not, in principal, disagreeing and I had my fill of marketing types so am more prone to the roll eyes when it's so ham-fisted than most. So we're prob not going to be able to close that gap.

The same marketing types likely pushed for the Spidey flag shot and the group shots in AA and AoU etc and none received the same need for people to go out of their way to point out how 'forced', 'cringey', 'eye-rolling' they were.

The fact that posters are implying, in some instances just stating, that having powerful female characters, having 3 on screen at the same time with no men during a battle scene, or having Wakandans at all is some form of tokenism that they are gracious enough to be ok with really says a lot.

Yeah, we aren't going to close the gap on this and for you and the many others who commented on scene I never really expected to be able to do that. My aim was more to highlight that these forced shots are pretty consistent in previous movies and that people may need some self reflection why this forced shot required push back when the others get a pass.

alchemist33 · 27-04-2019 04:00PM

8/10 for me. My main issue was the time heist section in the middle was a little dull. The girl power scene was eye-rolling but not enough to dock a point.

Overall it was a fitting climax and suitably heroic.

Mitch Connor · 27-04-2019 04:03PM

Foxtrol wrote: »

The same marketing types likely pushed for the Spidey flag shot and the group shots in AA and AoU etc and none received the same need for people to go out of their way to point out how 'forced', 'cringey', 'eye-rolling' they were.

The fact that posters are implying, in some instances just stating, that having powerful female characters, having 3 on screen at the same time with no men during a battle scene, or having Wakandans at all is some form of tokenism that they are gracious enough to be ok with really says a lot.

Yeah, we aren't going to close the gap on this and for you and the many others who commented on scene I never really expected to be able to do that. My aim was more to highlight that these forced shots are pretty consistent in previous movies and that people may need some self reflection why this forced shot required push back when the others get a pass.

Imo the team ups in the other movies made sense in how they came together. My issue with the shot 8n this one is it just doesn't make sense. It could have been done as a rolling shot through them doing cool stuff rather than for some reason JUST all the women converge in one spot and go from a standing start there. It's a weird shot.

AMKC · 27-04-2019 04:12PM

Deleted User wrote: »

He could have Peggy do it?

F*Ck ABC for cancelling Agent Carter anyway.

I agree. It was a great show and deserved to get more than one 1 season.

Any chance of Agent Carter getting her own film?

Paddy Cow wrote: »

She's got the personality of a cactus. Very prickly and nothing to be jealous of.

Ye maybe your right. While I enjoyed the Captain Marvel film I did think she could have done with some humour.

RayCun · 27-04-2019 04:19PM

Enjoyed it enough while watching, but I think it was a fairly weak movie.

The tone was all over the place. On the one hand its supposed to be terribly sad and everyone is in shock from the snap, on the other every two minutes there is a blatant wink to the audience and call back to a previous film. Someone above mentioned the Stan Lee cameos - every cameo would drop you out of the story so you could say, "look, it's Stan Lee!". The time travel scenes were an excuse for twenty minutes of "hey, remember this? And him? And that thing?"

The Thor jokes went on too long. Also it felt obvious that if he was going to die in this movie he'd have lost the dad bod and spent more time looking sad and serious.

And the final battle didn't work for me. In infinity war, the fight on Titan was good, and the last bit of the fight in Wakanda. This was too obviously a big CGI fest, with the hand to hand fight with Thanos feeling forced (didn't fit with how close the fights were in the previous movie, too clearly designed to include specific moments) and the glove chase lacking any weight, manufactured to give some characters their required screen time.

It's often said that the Marvel movies are good at connecting to each other, but in this one it really felt like a burden.

Paddy Cow · 27-04-2019 04:48PM

The Thor joke was funny in the beginning but after he had the talk with his mother I thought he'd buck up. I didn't expect to see him all buff but it was disappointing that he showed no character progression.

Slydice · 27-04-2019 05:28PM

USA money is on the board!

Day 3: $643 Million
https://www.boxofficemojo.com/movies/?id=marvel2019.htm

Now at position 3 on the 2019 board:
https://www.boxofficemojo.com/yearly/chart/?view2=worldwide&yr=2019&p=.htm

All-Time Worldwide. Position 131:
https://www.boxofficemojo.com/alltime/world/?pagenum=2&p=.htm

Slydice wrote: »

Day 2: $305 Million
Now at position 7 on the 2019 board
Also now showing on the All-Time Worldwide. Position 452

Slydice wrote: »

Day 1: $169 Million
On the 2019 board at number 10

Can it do a billion in one weekend?

:eek: Is that even possible?

Avengers: Endgame [** SPOILERS FROM POST 613 **]

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Avengers: Endgame [ SPOILERS FROM POST 613 ]