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Have we reach peak LGBT nonsense?

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    #332
    cgcsb
    Registered Users Posts: 9,306 ✭✭✭cgcsb


    Varta wrote: »
    But society is putting up with it. Calling out Folau is nothing. It does nothing to tackle the source of the hate. There is a massive reluctance to tackle the hate, most likely because to do so would clash with people's own superstitions.

    Or, more accurately, it isn't within the mandate of Australian rugby to tackle the source of hate globally. :rolleyes:

    Perhaps all they can do is something small, like keeping their player's hate in check.


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    #333
    Ave Sodalis
    Registered Users Posts: 7,548 ✭✭✭Ave Sodalis


    Once again, nobody is being fired for having a belief. If that was the case, he would have been fired last year. Everyone already knew he had those beliefs.


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    #334
    King Mob
    Registered Users Posts: 25,229 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    Ave Sodalis wrote: »
    Once again, nobody is being fired for having a belief. If that was the case, he would have been fired last year. Everyone already knew he had those beliefs.
    Yea, but why let facts get in the way of a good "pc gone mad/wont someone think of the poor oppressed bigots" rant?


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    #335
    eagle eye
    Registered Users Posts: 37,857 ✭✭✭✭eagle eye


    Oppressed bigots? We are not talking about bigots, we are talking about a religious man who thinks that drunks, homosexuals, adulterers, liars, fornicators, thieves, atheists and idolaters will all end up in hell unless they repent.
    A lot of guys on here seem to believe that he was only talking about gay people.


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    #336
    recedite
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,993 ✭✭✭✭recedite


    As a drunk and an atheist I have no problem with Folau expressing his opinion.
    And I haven't heard of any thieves, fornicators, adulterers or idolators complaining about him either.


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    #337
    King Mob
    Registered Users Posts: 25,229 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    eagle eye wrote: »
    Oppressed bigots? We are not talking about bigots, we are talking about a religious man who thinks that drunks, homosexuals, adulterers, liars, fornicators, thieves, atheists and idolaters will all end up in hell unless they repent.
    A lot of guys on here seem to believe that he was only talking about gay people.
    Saying that gay people deserve any type of torture for being gay is bigotry.
    Equating being gay to lying and stealing is bigotry.
    If they are his religious beliefs, then is beliefs are bigoted.
    They do not become not bigoted by virtue of being genuinely held or being religious in origin.

    People can split hairs all they like, but that is what is being discussed here.

    I don't think this guy who is spreading memes condemning people to eternal torture is one for nuance.


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    #338
    Guy:Incognito
    Registered Users Posts: 38,247 ✭✭✭✭Guy:Incognito


    eagle eye wrote: »
    Oppressed bigots? We are not talking about bigots, we are talking about a religious man who thinks that drunks, homosexuals, adulterers, liars, fornicators, thieves, atheists and idolaters will all end up in hell unless they repent.
    A lot of guys on here seem to believe that he was only talking about gay people.

    Do you believe being gay is equivelant to being a liar or a thief? Everything on that list is a choice bar being gay. Its not the same situation at all.



    Does your support for players free speech expend to everything? should they be supported if they decide to post thier opinions that black people are inferior and they hope they go to hell? Or start calling all muslms suicide bombers? Sure theyre only words.

    In your concern for dressing room harmony , how do you reckon a load of bigots and racists being allowed to air their views will help that along? Do you really think there are no gay top level professional footballers? Or that there are but they keep it to themselves. Possibly gay people just arent good at football? Or maybe, and mush more likely, because they dont feel comfortable coming out due to attitudes? Same goes for Rubgy and other sports.


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    #339
    eagle eye
    Registered Users Posts: 37,857 ✭✭✭✭eagle eye


    Guy:Incognito wrote:
    Do you believe being gay is equivelant to being a liar or a thief? Everything on that list is a choice bar being gay. Its not the same situation at all.
    No I dont believe it's the same thing. I'm not supporting his views, I'm saying he is allowed to have them and to say it.
    Guy:Incognito wrote:
    Does your support for players free speech expend to everything? should they be supported if they decide to post thier opinions that black people are inferior and they hope they go to hell? Or start calling all muslms suicide bombers? Sure theyre only words.
    Who is talking about supporting them? I'm simply saying it's ok to speak your mind. It's fine to disagree with somebody's thoughts to.
    Guy:Incognito wrote:
    In your concern for dressing room harmony , how do you reckon a load of bigots and racists being allowed to air their views will help that along? Do you really think there are no gay top level professional footballers? Or that there are but they keep it to themselves. Possibly gay people just arent good at football? Or maybe, and mush more likely, because they dont feel comfortable coming out due to attitudes? Same goes for Rubgy and other sports.
    This is a mess.
    Lots of what I'd call awful stuff goes on in a dressing room. It's not a place for the faint hearted.
    I'm sure there are as many adulterers as there are gay people in his dressing room.
    I understand where you are coming from as regards you are born gay and the other things are by choice or addiction.
    I think religion is a bit different though, it's drilled into a lot of people at a young age, and then there are those weak people who are identified and brainwashed into these beliefs in their late teens or early twenties or even later in some cases.
    You mightn't like their beliefs but you have to respect that they have the right to hold them.
    I believe everybody should have the right to air their views so long as they do it peacefully. I believe that if everybody is allowed air their views that we can have conversations and hopefully change minds.

    By the way anybody who despises the views of another is a bigot. So all those castigating Folau's views are bigots.


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    #340
    cgcsb
    Registered Users Posts: 9,306 ✭✭✭cgcsb


    eagle eye wrote: »
    Oppressed bigots? We are not talking about bigots, we are talking about a religious man who thinks that drunks, homosexuals, adulterers, liars, fornicators, thieves, atheists and idolaters will all end up in hell unless they repent.
    A lot of guys on here seem to believe that he was only talking about gay people.

    hating on other people doesnt make him not a biggot


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    #341
    cgcsb
    Registered Users Posts: 9,306 ✭✭✭cgcsb


    The verbal gymnastics and whataboutary to defend this eejit on this thread is a laugh if nothing else.


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    #342
    mcmoustache
    Registered Users Posts: 7,236 ✭✭✭mcmoustache


    Why is it that any time some bigot says something bigoted and experiences some consequences from an organisation that it gets spun into a free speech issue? Whether it's Gemma O Doherty, Alex Jones, Tommy Robinson or some other upstanding citizen, the refrain is the same. The free speech concerns might be a bit more believable if there was some concern shown for the rights of an organisation to express themselves as an organisation.

    Instead, the free speech philosophers hold off on advocating for free speech until a bigot suffers some consequences.


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    #343
    King Mob
    Registered Users Posts: 25,229 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    eagle eye wrote: »
    By the way anybody who despises the views of another is a bigot. So all those castigating Folau's views are bigots.
    So by your definition Folau is a bigot?:confused:


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    #344
    sydthebeat
    Subscribers Posts: 41,266 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    eagle eye wrote: »
    I'm not supporting his views, I'm saying he is allowed to have them and to say it.

    hes allowed to have them....

    hes not allowed to broadcast them as an employee of a company, whose stated inclusion policy says:
    "Pride in Sport is Australia’s only sporting inclusion program which helps sporting organisations and clubs with the inclusion of Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, Transgender and Intersex (LGBTI) employees, players, volunteers and spectators.

    Rugby Australia is a Foundation Member of Pride in Sport and works with them to ensure all Australians are able to enjoy our great game.

    This means improving all aspects of LGBTI inclusion, achieving best practice as bench-marked by the Pride in Sport Index and creating better health outcomes for LGBTI workers, players, coaches, referees, volunteers and fans through creating inclusive spaces which remove homophobia, stigma and discrimination."


    do you STILL not understand why he cannot broadcast his extreme religious views as an emplyee of a company who holds the above ethos .....


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    #345
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    sydthebeat wrote: »
    hes allowed to have them....

    hes not allowed to broadcast them as an employee of a company, whose stated inclusion policy says:




    do you STILL not understand why he cannot broadcast his extreme religious views as an emplyee of a company who holds the above ethos .....

    well, he can

    he just gets sacked

    why ppl confuse this with free speech is a mystery to me


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    #346
    recedite
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,993 ✭✭✭✭recedite


    Guy:Incognito wrote: »
    Everything on that list is a choice bar being gay. Its not the same situation at all.
    So what.
    Do gays think they have an exclusive right to have a hissy fit because they are so precious and special?


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    #347
    Bannasidhe
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 19,219 Mod ✭✭✭✭Bannasidhe


    recedite wrote: »
    So what.
    Do gays think they have an exclusive right to have a hissy fit because they are so precious and special?

    Where is your evidence that 'gays' actually had anything to do with this?

    This is between an employee and his employer.
    An employer who made clear their stance on inclusivity and previously warned the employee that he was in breech of their anti-discrimination policies.
    He then repeated the offence for which he received that warning.
    So they sacked him.

    Jazuz - some people aren't happy unless they are blaming the gays... or the Muslims... for other people thinking they can do exactly as they please even when they have been warned of the consequences.


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    #348
    cgcsb
    Registered Users Posts: 9,306 ✭✭✭cgcsb


    mcmoustache wrote: »
    Why is it that any time some bigot says something bigoted and experiences some consequences from an organisation that it gets spun into a free speech issue? Whether it's Gemma O Doherty, Alex Jones, Tommy Robinson or some other upstanding citizen, the refrain is the same. The free speech concerns might be a bit more believable if there was some concern shown for the rights of an organisation to express themselves as an organisation.

    Instead, the free speech philosophers hold off on advocating for free speech until a bigot suffers some consequences.

    Breeda O'Brien fake crying on the radio was the low point. Basically when you run out of things to say, you have to say 'they're picking on me'. As a gay man I find this comical, gay people have been persecuted for such a long time, now that they have nominal acceptance in the western world, homophobes are crying for a whambulance when their sh1te gets challenged.


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    #349
    recedite
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,993 ✭✭✭✭recedite


    Bannasidhe wrote: »
    .. even when they have been warned of the consequences.
    We all know what the consequences are; outrage and a social media campaign that will ultimately hit the sponsor financially.
    I take your point that it may not actually be the gays, it may be social justice warriors being outraged on behalf of the gays.

    God knows, there are enough of them on this thread.

    Why do they never stand up for us drunks? :mad:


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    #350
    cgcsb
    Registered Users Posts: 9,306 ✭✭✭cgcsb


    recedite wrote: »
    So what.
    Do gays think they have an exclusive right to have a hissy fit because they are so precious and special?

    It's the phobes having a screaming hissier though.


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    #351
    mcmoustache
    Registered Users Posts: 7,236 ✭✭✭mcmoustache


    recedite wrote: »
    Its not simple stuff, because seamus here keeps conflating things like employment law, sexual harassment and incitement to hatred with the much more vague "reputational damage" that might "get you in trouble".


    It's simple stuff until you start obfuscating, deflecting and engaging in whataboutery. But that's the intention, I guess.

    People get fired all the time for doing things that their employer told them to stop doing. I know that defending that is tricky but your attempts to confuse the issue as some kind of leftist conspiracy against the right to free speech is very transparent.


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    #352
    Bannasidhe
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 19,219 Mod ✭✭✭✭Bannasidhe


    recedite wrote: »
    We all know what the consequences are; outrage and a social media campaign that will ultimately hit the sponsor financially.
    I take your point that it may not actually be the gays, it may be social justice warriors being outraged on behalf of the gays.

    God knows, there are enough of them on this thread.

    Why do they never stand up for us drunks? :mad:

    Or - and this may be a bit mad - but it may be an organisation saying "right, this guy was warned already. Our policies are clear. He knew what he was doing. Enough is enough. If we don't act then we are hypocrites."

    The only outrage I am seeing is from those who are trying to defend a grown man doing the very thing this employers told him not to do and getting canned as a result.

    If you want to stand up for drunks go right ahead.


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    #353
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    recedite wrote: »
    .


    Why do they never stand up for us drunks? :mad:

    not sure i personally qualify as an sjw but just for meself the gays are a great bunch of lads who have done wonders for the coffee selection available in d8 and stoneybatter and dont cost me a penny afaict

    drunks pay less tax per capita and are more likely to make nonsense arguments on message boards*


    *based on a small but pungent sample available


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    #354
    smacl
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 15,733 Mod ✭✭✭✭smacl


    cgcsb wrote: »
    Breeda O'Brien fake crying on the radio was the low point. Basically when you run out of things to say, you have to say 'they're picking on me'. As a gay man I find this comical, gay people have been persecuted for such a long time, now that they have nominal acceptance in the western world, homophobes are crying for a whambulance when their sh1te gets challenged.

    Bigots screaming victim for being called bigots, gotta love it! Don't know if you've read Dante's Inferno, but you feel that Breda, Waters and that Quin fella deserve a special level in the pit all to themselves for all that good work they've done. Shít, just condemned someone to hell. Just as well I'm an atheist and don't believe in that nonsense. Ah well, no harm then.... :pac:


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    #355
    smacl
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 15,733 Mod ✭✭✭✭smacl


    recedite wrote: »
    Why do they never stand up for us drunks? :mad:

    Check out the shít list Rec, us drunks had better get used to the smell of sulfur too it would seem. Atheist too? Maybe throw some hot tar and feathers over the top for good luck. You gonna burn, baby....


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    #356
    recedite
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,993 ✭✭✭✭recedite


    smacl wrote: »
    Check out the shít list Rec, us drunks had better get used to the smell of sulfur too it would seem. Atheist too? Maybe throw some hot tar and feathers over the top for good luck. You gonna burn, baby....
    Yeah I know, that's why I said I qualify on 2 counts.
    But I'll still defend his right to free speech.


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    #357
    salmocab
    Registered Users Posts: 11,310 ✭✭✭✭salmocab


    recedite wrote: »
    Yeah I know, that's why I said I qualify on 2 counts.
    But I'll still defend his right to free speech.

    He has free speech nobody took that away


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    #358
    Bogwoppit
    Registered Users Posts: 2,624 ✭✭✭Bogwoppit


    recedite wrote: »
    Yeah I know, that's why I said I qualify on 2 counts.
    But I'll still defend his right to free speech.

    Knock knock, anything getting in there?

    Nobody is stifling his free speech, he’s free to say what he likes, how many times does this have to be explained to you?


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    #359
    recedite
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,993 ✭✭✭✭recedite


    salmocab wrote: »
    He has free speech nobody took that away
    Well, he can have free speech and be unemployed alright.
    Or he can keep his job and lose the free speech.


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    #360
    Bogwoppit
    Registered Users Posts: 2,624 ✭✭✭Bogwoppit


    recedite wrote: »
    Well, he can have free speech and be unemployed alright.
    Or he can keep his job and lose the free speech.

    He hasn’t lost any rights though has he? If one of my employees came out with this ****e after a warning they’d be in the same position, more time on their hands to keep spouting their ****e.

    He has a right to free speech not a right to employment from the ARU.


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    #361
    salmocab
    Registered Users Posts: 11,310 ✭✭✭✭salmocab


    recedite wrote: »
    Well, he can have free speech and be unemployed alright.
    Or he can keep his job and lose the free speech.

    The employer also has rights, nowhere in the world does free speech mean you can say anything without any repercussions from anybody.


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