Liverpool FC Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours 2019

yourdeadwright · 28-03-2019 11:05AM

BorneTobyWilde wrote: »

Everyone loves a comeback Shirley Karius will be a decent No2 when Mignolet leaves. Allison ironically has made more mistakes this season for Liverpool than Karius has for Beşiktaş, yet Karius has a label now, when he makes a mistake it's multiplied x 100 in the media and on social media. When Allison makes a mistake he's forgiven instantly as he too has a label, one of being brilliant.

Madness ,

What do THEY consider a mistake ? a handling error or a missed place pass ?

Iv watched Karius very closely and even before the Champion league final I kept banging on about him making mistakes every single game,
Karius worst mistakes are the position's he takes up, its something on tv that is not called out much,his starting position for crosses and shots is shocking,

Alisson is a million miles a head of him , Alisson positional sense is amazing, They amount of saves Alisson has made this season that look run of the mill that Kauris would not be close to is huge,
Alisson is so good he rarely has to make what looks like a world class save as he is already in position to deal with it easily
One on ones there is such a huge gap between the two of them its like a different sport,

Guys like for example Pickford look good as they make a huge number of flying saves but its there poor positioning in the first place that makes them have to fly across the goal , The best keepers rarely have to scramble across there goal line,

Potential Underachiever · 28-03-2019 11:06AM

Nerdlingr wrote: »

He wasn't interfering with play going by the rules though.
Interfering with play, by definition, only comes into it if Kane touches the ball played by a team-mate .... and because Lovren played , or attempted to play the ball, he's then deemed onside.

Is he physically interfering with play? No. Which is grand witin the rules...what it doesnt account for is mentally Lovren is aware kane is behind him and goes to clear.

They really should make it black and white. If you're off, you're off.

Wouldn't agree with that at all, the tweaks they have made aren't perfect but are far better than what it was, can't be flagging perfectly good goals off just because some lad is at the corner flag and deemed offside when nowhere near the play. Balls crossed into the box guy at the near post flicks in but it's offside because someone 10 yards behind is offside, even some long range goals were chalked off stupidly back then too.

Nerdlingr · 28-03-2019 11:11AM

Potential Underachiever wrote: »

Wouldn't agree with that at all, the tweaks they have made aren't perfect but are far better than what it was, can't be flagging perfectly good goals off just because some lad is at the corner flag and deemed offside when nowhere near the play. Balls crossed into the box guy at the near post flicks in but it's offside because someone 10 yards behind is offside, even some long range goals were chalked off stupidly back then too.

Well, they're different cases altogether. Come on.
I'm not talking about guys standing over by the corner flag ffs.
I'm on about incidents like the kane one. If he's off he's off. No messing about with intent, or interference. If a ball is played into you, in the box and you're standing in an offside position and the ball comes to you ... no matter what the opposition do, you should be flagged for offside. No messing about with semantics.

Potential Underachiever · 28-03-2019 11:15AM

Nerdlingr wrote: »

Well, there different cases altogether. Come on.
I'm not talking about guys standing over by the corner flag ffs.
I'm on about incidents like the kane one. If he's off he's off. No messing about with intent, or interference. If a ball is played into you, in the box and you're standing in an offside position and the ball comes to you ... no matter what the opposition do, you should be flagged for offside. No messing about with semantics.

Fair enough I thought your black and white comment was wanting to go old school with the offside rule.

noodler · 28-03-2019 11:22AM

Christ.

Of course Kane was interfering with play.

This is ridiculous.

He was offside when the ball was played end off.

For the Lovren touch to matter Kane would need to be onside when the initial ball was played.

Umaro · 28-03-2019 11:27AM

Looking over the fence, I see Utd have appointed OGS as permanent manager.

Will be interesting to see how that goes. He got them playing well again and that was a great result they had against PSG. I'm still not sure whether its down to him being a great manager or the players enjoying their freedom from Jose. Will be interesting to see where they finish up this year. Spending next season in Europa League will make life that much harder for him to get good signings (Utd would have finished outside Top 4 for the 4 out of the past 6 seasons, never thought I'd see the day).

citytillidie · 28-03-2019 11:29AM

Nerdlingr wrote: »

He wasn't interfering with play going by the rules though.
Interfering with play, by definition, only comes into it if Kane touches the ball played by a team-mate .... and because Lovren played , or attempted to play the ball, he's then deemed onside.

Is he physically interfering with play? No. Which is grand witin the rules...what it doesnt account for is mentally Lovren is aware kane is behind him and goes to clear.

They really should make it black and white. If you're off, you're off.

He is interfering with play as he is making Lovren go for the ball. Like a player standing in front of the keeper so he can't see the ball and a goal is scored 99.99% that is called offside as even though that player did not touch the ball he is interfering with play by blocking the keepers view

RollieFingers · 28-03-2019 11:31AM

Umaro wrote: »

Looking over the fence, I see Utd have appointed OGS as permanent manager.

Will be interesting to see how that goes. He got them playing well again and that was a great result they had against PSG. I'm still not sure whether its down to him being a great manager or the players enjoying their freedom from Jose. Will be interesting to see where they finish up this year. Spending next season in Europa League will make life that much harder for him to get good signings (Utd would have finished outside Top 4 for the 4 out of the past 6 seasons, never thought I'd see the day).

Couldn't care less to be honest.

citytillidie · 28-03-2019 11:32AM

Umaro wrote: »

Looking over the fence, I see Utd have appointed OGS as permanent manager.

Will be interesting to see how that goes. He got them playing well again and that was a great result they had against PSG. I'm still not sure whether its down to him being a great manager or the players enjoying their freedom from Jose. Will be interesting to see where they finish up this year. Spending next season in Europa League will make life that much harder for him to get good signings (Utd would have finished outside Top 4 for the 4 out of the past 6 seasons, never thought I'd see the day).

Nerdlingr · 28-03-2019 11:36AM

noodler wrote: »

Christ.

Of course Kane was interfering with play.

This is ridiculous.

He was offside when the ball was played end off.

For the Lovren touch to matter Kane would need to be onside when the initial ball was played.

Read the rules lads. Ye dont understand it. I've tried explaining it here.
Doesnt matter anyway... in other news...

Alli has been pr*tty sh*t since he's come back from injury. Saw a bit of both England's games during the week and he doesn't look up to speed at all. Hopefully that continues into Sunday.

Vicxas · 28-03-2019 11:43AM

In other news Lovren is apparently wanted by the likes of Roma and AC Milan

LuckyLloyd · 28-03-2019 11:59AM

I care. When they appointed Mourinho there was a possibility that they'd win a league / CL. To now be back to Ole inside of three years is a great outcome for us and the rest of the Premier League teams striving to be at the sharp end of the table. They're now 6 years removed from winning a title, and potentially are about to slip out of the CL again. The commercial realities of the club mean that they're return to being a powerhouse is almost inevitable and, as such, every year that is delayed is highly relevant and interesting to me.

noodler · 28-03-2019 12:04PM

Nerdlingr wrote: »

Read the rules lads. Ye dont understand it. I've tried explaining it here.
Doesnt matter anyway... in other news...

Alli has been pr*tty sh*t since he's come back from injury. Saw a bit of both England's games during the week and he doesn't look up to speed at all. Hopefully that continues into Sunday.

I disagree with your interpretation.

Calling offside when the ball is played to a player interfering with play is the standard.

They don't keep the flag down and pretend he suddenly isn't offside anymore because there was a deflection.

He needed to be onside when the original ball was played.

28-03-2019 12:27PM

Umaro wrote: »

Looking over the fence, I see Utd have appointed OGS as permanent manager.

Will be interesting to see how that goes. He got them playing well again and that was a great result they had against PSG. I'm still not sure whether its down to him being a great manager or the players enjoying their freedom from Jose. Will be interesting to see where they finish up this year. Spending next season in Europa League will make life that much harder for him to get good signings (Utd would have finished outside Top 4 for the 4 out of the past 6 seasons, never thought I'd see the day).

Great news.

rob316 · 28-03-2019 12:33PM

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

I care. When they appointed Mourinho there was a possibility that they'd win a league / CL. To now be back to Ole inside of three years is a great outcome for us and the rest of the Premier League teams striving to be at the sharp end of the table. They're now 6 years removed from winning a title, and potentially are about to slip out of the CL again. The commercial realities of the club mean that they're return to being a powerhouse is almost inevitable and, as such, every year that is delayed is highly relevant and interesting to me.

Yep Mourinho was considered the guaranteed option for success but its back fired. Miles away from challenging City they are and it won't be happening anytime soon. Ole about to find out how tough that job is now that you take all the **** that goes with it.

Nerdlingr · 28-03-2019 12:39PM

noodler wrote: »

I disagree with your interpretation.

Calling offside when the ball is played to a player interfering with play is the standard.

They don't keep the flag down and pretend he suddenly isn't offside anymore because there was a deflection.

He needed to be onside when the original ball was played.

Its not interpretation. They're the rules are they're set out.

"A player in an offside position receiving the ball from an opponent who deliberately plays the ball (except from a deliberate save by any opponent) is not considered to have gained an advantage."

And again, the way its defined in the laws of the game he wasn't interfering with play.
And they do keep the flag down because there was a deliberate action.
And he doesn't need to be onside when the original ball is hit, as proven by the fact he actually was deemed onside and won a penalty.

Anyway..

noodler · 28-03-2019 12:55PM

So have two strikers perma offside and start launching through balls at centre halves frok five yards.

Eventually one will ricochet off.

Except, the flag will go up in most cases.

facehugger99 · 28-03-2019 12:59PM

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

I care. When they appointed Mourinho there was a possibility that they'd win a league / CL. To now be back to Ole inside of three years is a great outcome for us and the rest of the Premier League teams striving to be at the sharp end of the table. They're now 6 years removed from winning a title, and potentially are about to slip out of the CL again. The commercial realities of the club mean that they're return to being a powerhouse is almost inevitable and, as such, every year that is delayed is highly relevant and interesting to me.

They need to back him now with a few hundred million in the transfer market.

It's amazing how a few seasons in the Norwegian League can bring you from relegating Cardiff to managing Man Utd.

A few years in the wilderness will do wonders for their financial model and hopefully clear an easier path for Liverpool to consistently challenge for the PL and qualify for the CL.

Nerdlingr · 28-03-2019 01:12PM

noodler wrote: »

So have two strikers perma offside and start launching through balls at centre halves frok five yards.

Eventually one will ricochet off.

Except, the flag will go up in most cases.

Has to be deliberate action. Not ricochet.

8-10 · 28-03-2019 01:43PM

noodler wrote: »

So have two strikers perma offside and start launching through balls at centre halves frok five yards.

Eventually one will ricochet off.

Except, the flag will go up in most cases.

A richochet is hardly "deliberately playing the ball" though?

~Rebel~ · 28-03-2019 01:48PM

Nerdlingr wrote: »

He wasn't interfering with play going by the rules though.
Interfering with play, by definition, only comes into it if Kane touches the ball played by a team-mate .... and because Lovren played , or attempted to play the ball, he's then deemed onside.

Is he physically interfering with play? No. Which is grand witin the rules...what it doesnt account for is mentally Lovren is aware kane is behind him and goes to clear.

They really should make it black and white. If you're off, you're off.

Players regularly get called as interfering with play without touching the ball - like if they’re distracting a goalkeeper by being in a dangerous area whilst offside (unbeknownst to the keeper). This is no different to that - the defender (or keepers) behavior is changed by the existence/presence of the offside player.

You quoted a small piece of the law, but there are tonnes of stipulations for how you can be offside without touching the ball. Like;

preventing an opponent from playing or being able to play the ball by clearly obstructing the opponent’s line of vision or
challenging an opponent for the ball or
clearly attempting to play a ball which is close when this action impacts on an opponent or
making an obvious action which clearly impacts on the ability of an opponent to play the ball.
http://www.thefa.com/football-rules-governance/lawsandrules/laws/football-11-11/law-11---offside

In that instance, Kane was clearly challenging for the ball - he had one obvious singular focus in what he was doing. And he also definitely fell foul of making an obvious action which clearly impacts on the ability of an opponent to play the ball - no Kane, Lovren can take his time. But with Kane there, Lovren has to attempt a rash clearance - clear impact.

monkey9 · 28-03-2019 02:54PM

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

I care. When they appointed Mourinho there was a possibility that they'd win a league / CL. To now be back to Ole inside of three years is a great outcome for us and the rest of the Premier League teams striving to be at the sharp end of the table. They're now 6 years removed from winning a title, and potentially are about to slip out of the CL again. The commercial realities of the club mean that they're return to being a powerhouse is almost inevitable and, as such, every year that is delayed is highly relevant and interesting to me.

Agreed, delighted with OGS’s appointment. It kicks Man U further back down the road which is good news obviously. He won’t see out the three years, he’ll be sacked in 2021.

Nerdlingr · 28-03-2019 03:06PM

~Rebel~ wrote: »

Players regularly get called as interfering with play without touching the ball - like if they’re distracting a goalkeeper by being in a dangerous area whilst offside (unbeknownst to the keeper). This is no different to that - the defender (or keepers) behavior is changed by the existence/presence of the offside player.

You quoted a small piece of the law, but there are tonnes of stipulations for how you can be offside without touching the ball. Like;

preventing an opponent from playing or being able to play the ball by clearly obstructing the opponent’s line of vision or
challenging an opponent for the ball or
clearly attempting to play a ball which is close when this action impacts on an opponent or
making an obvious action which clearly impacts on the ability of an opponent to play the ball.
http://www.thefa.com/football-rules-governance/lawsandrules/laws/football-11-11/law-11---offside

In that instance, Kane was clearly challenging for the ball - he had one obvious singular focus in what he was doing. And he also definitely fell foul of making an obvious action which clearly impacts on the ability of an opponent to play the ball - no Kane, Lovren can take his time. But with Kane there, Lovren has to attempt a rash clearance - clear impact.

Sorry to go on about this but....

I know there other stipulations, i didn't feel it necessary to mention them because Kane didn't do any of them.

He didnt "challenge" for the ball as you say, he didn't impede Lovren going for the ball, he didn't prevent Lovren playing the ball, didn't make an obvious action to impact Lovren. (action as in moving towards the ball, getting in front of the player).

Being offside is not an offence in itself.

Agent Coulson · 28-03-2019 03:06PM

monkey9 wrote: »

Agreed, delighted with OGS’s appointment. It kicks Man U further back down the road which is good news obviously. He won’t see out the three years, he’ll be sacked in 2021.

By Christmas this year would be my guess.

~Rebel~ · 28-03-2019 03:11PM

Nerdlingr wrote: »

Sorry to go on about this but....

I know there other stipulations, i didn't feel it necessary to mention them because Kane didn't do any of them.

He didnt "challenge" for the ball as you say, he didn't impede Lovren going for the ball, he didn't prevent Lovren playing the ball, didn't make an obvious action to impact Lovren. (action as in moving towards the ball, getting in front of the player).

Being offside is not an offence in itself.

The wording is subjective and interpretive. What one person considers an action, another does not. I consider it a direct and obvious action to take advantage of his offside position, forcing the defender to act as a direct result. You disagree. But the wording of the law above clearly allows for both.

Hence why there were former refs and players on both sides of the argument in its immediate aftermath - because there isn’t a definitive answer.

28-03-2019 03:17PM

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

I care. When they appointed Mourinho there was a possibility that they'd win a league / CL. To now be back to Ole inside of three years is a great outcome for us and the rest of the Premier League teams striving to be at the sharp end of the table. They're now 6 years removed from winning a title, and potentially are about to slip out of the CL again. The commercial realities of the club mean that they're return to being a powerhouse is almost inevitable and, as such, every year that is delayed is highly relevant and interesting to me.

The manager is irrelevant at United. Pep or Klopp could have come in at the same time as José and would have fallen foul to the same issues. I think success with Ole is possible and I wouldn't be counting my chickens from across the fence if I was you lads. Sure weren't the usual clowns on here saying they hoped José stayed? Well now you have the anti José in terms of demeanor and there is a good feeling around the club again.

I could see Ole becoming a bit more ruthless now with a bit of security and fan tide behind him in terms of the sub standard performances from players. There is a team there capable of overpowering the smaller teams in the league. Lacking top quality but that can possibly be rectified (big) if the right signings are made. I'd be one of the more pessimistic voices too

Nerdlingr · 28-03-2019 03:18PM

~Rebel~ wrote: »

The wording is subjective and interpretive. What one person considers an action, another does not. I consider it a direct and obvious action to take advantage of his offside position, forcing the defender to act as a direct result. You disagree. But the wording of the law above clearly allows for both.

Hence why there were former refs and players on both sides of the argument in its immediate aftermath - because there isn’t a definitive answer.

I agree. That's why I said it should be black and white in cases like this.
I'd be in favour of once your off you're off. No ambiguity in that.

Cartman78 · 28-03-2019 03:21PM

Agent Coulson wrote: »

By Christmas this year would be my guess.

Yep...that'd be my estimate too.

He's done fairly well so far to be fair by:

a) not being Jose Mourinho and

b) milking the living daylights out of Class of 92/Fergie nostalgia.

That'll get him so far but essentially it's been an elongated new manager bounce, I think he'll struggle over the course of a season.

Would have been far more concerned if they'd hired Pochettino or anyone else with top level experience.

Having said all that, if he can motivate them to take points off City I'll be happy as a pig in sh1t

~Rebel~ · 28-03-2019 03:23PM

Nerdlingr wrote: »

I agree. That's why I said it should be black and white in cases like this.
I'd be in favour of once your off you're off. No ambiguity in that.

I'm just pointing out that unlike what you were saying, where you expressed that as the laws are written he could not have been found offside, I believe firmly that he could have, totally within the current rules as they exist.

I'd argue that "making an obvious action which clearly impacts on the ability of an opponent to play the ball." is their catch all get-out. Where your interpretation of that was "action as in moving towards the ball, getting in front of the player", both of those were covered by previous caveats to the law, so clearly that last one is more open ended than that or it would not have needed to be written.

I think based on that last law's wording, the ref is entitled to interpret any action he likes as being an action that impacts the defender, as long as he can justify it.

Charlie19 · 28-03-2019 03:36PM

Xabi Alonso has won the Spanish U13 League with Real Madrid.

1st Managerial title for the former Red:D

Liverpool FC Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours 2019

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