Micky Jackson in trouble again

martingriff · 07-03-2019 09:06PM

Is there serious question in relation to Michael Jackson and his sleepovers yes but I am finding some of Leaving Neverland to take serious and given that this is happening now so long after his death its casts some doubt to me. Anytime I hear of people coming out to say they were a victim of x or y after they die I go were you. Now do not get me wrong it is creapy but as far as I know it is not a crime I just think he was a boy in a mans body as he did not have his I was listening to Ivan Yates today and Tom Jones was on and he has no doubt of his guilt and anyone who thinks otherwise is just wrong and he will never play anything from him again.

ceadaoin. · 07-03-2019 09:14PM

ToBeFrank123 wrote: »

I think in the interests of balance (something badly missing) Jackson was friends with a lot of people who ranged from elderly or middle aged (Liz Taylor, Diana Ross, etc) right down to kids. So he wasn't just friends with kids, he was friends with people of all ages. Its being portrayed that he spent his entire life hanging around kids or something like that. He spent time with kids, he spent time with adults. That needs to be said. He spent time with a lot of people, but commentators only want to focus on the fact he spent time with kids and ignore practically everything else. Balance is important.

But yet he didn't share a bed with any of those friends did he? He didn't even share a bed with his own wife. Like ever . He only shared a bed with children, and only male children of a certain age. Hmm

joe40 · 07-03-2019 09:15PM

ToBeFrank123 wrote: »

I think in the interests of balance (something badly missing) Jackson was friends with a lot of people who ranged from elderly or middle aged (Liz Taylor, Diana Ross, etc) right down to kids. So he wasn't just friends with kids, he was friends with people of all ages. Its being portrayed that he spent his entire life hanging around kids or something like that. He spent time with kids, he spent time with adults. That needs to be said. He spent time with a lot of people, but commentators only want to focus on the fact he spent time with kids and ignore practically everything else. Balance is important.

How many of those adult friends did he sleep with?

ToBeFrank123 · 07-03-2019 09:22PM

ceadaoin. wrote: »

But yet he didn't share a bed with any of those friends did he? He didn't even share a bed with his own wife. Like ever . He only shared a bed with children, and only male children of a certain age. Hmm

But still no proof of anything, just conjecture.

I'm a great believer in proof and evidence that stands up in court and due process. A one sided documentary is not the way to convict anyone. This is the main fault with this documentary, no right to reply was given to the other side. At least the Jackson estate lawyers have come out fighting which is their right. It would be a great if a documentary was made showing the other side of the story.

ceadaoin. · 07-03-2019 09:29PM

ToBeFrank123 wrote: »

But still no proof of anything, just conjecture.

I'm a great believer in proof and evidence that stands up in court and due process. A one sided documentary is not the way to convict anyone. This is the main fault with this documentary, no right to reply was given to the other side. At least the Jackson estate lawyers have come out fighting which is their right. It would be a great if a documentary was made showing the other side of the story.

Its not conjecture that he slept with boys and not his wife. You said that the fact that he had adult friends provides "balance", as if that somehow means he didn't abuse children. Sure, priests are celibate therefore they couldn't have abused anyone right? And many alleged child abusers are married, they can't be paedophiles. No, that's not how it works.

So he had adult friends too. What's your point?

It's not just this documentary. I thought he was guilty before it. It's everything. The intense friendships with boys only, sleepovers, dropping them when they got older, his tactile behaviour with them and lots more.

ToBeFrank123 · 07-03-2019 09:29PM

joe40 wrote: »

How many of those adult friends did he sleep with?

I think we've been over the part where he was an eccentric individual who felt most comfortable in the company of kids, possibly because of his own difficult relationship with his father. He possibly only trusted or felt comfortable around kids. But he didn't spend all his time with kids was my point. He had adult friends too.
I can see its difficult getting any balance into this discussion and for some there's only one side to the story. If that's the case then this documentary has been very successful.
Its still a leap to say without solid evidence that because he shared a bed with kids he must have raped them. Innocent until proven guilty in a court of law and all that. Most people have simply bypassed the court of law thing.
Mob justice at its finest!

Beechwoodspark · 07-03-2019 09:30PM

I know the hardcore fans will never accept it but His life and music are now consigned to the dustbin of history.

ToBeFrank123 · 07-03-2019 09:31PM

ceadaoin. wrote: »

Its not conjecture that he slept with boys and not his wife. You said that the fact that he had adult friends provides "balance", as if that somehow means he didn't abuse children. Sure, priests are celibate therefore they couldn't have abused anyone right? And many alleged child abusers are married, they can't be paedophiles. No, that's not how it works.

So he had adult friends too. What's your point?

No its conjecture that because he shared a bed with some children he must have raped them. Others have made the point that if he was so sexually interested in them why did he abandon them for other kids like Culkin who wouldn't "put out" to put it crudely.

joe40 · 07-03-2019 09:32PM

I know I'm been flippant here but if I'm on a work trip and choose to share a room and a bed with my glamorous female colleague, will the defence "nothing happened" carry much weight with the missus.
Seriously though, you know that at this stage there will be no evidence that stands up in a court of law.
But this is important Jackson is not on trial. His behaviour is been questioned especially in light of latest allegations, but also in relation to the stuff that has been well documented, but viewed in a different light nowadays.
If a current celebrity was behaving like jackson did with kids it would not be widely accepted.
As a society, not just in Ireland, we have all grown up a bit in relation to child abuse.
Imagine Ed Sherran sharing a bed with children.

Lady Spangles · 07-03-2019 09:34PM

AllForIt wrote: »

Piers Morgan gave Dan Reed a good grilling in this interview. I think Morgans line of questioning reflects many of the doubts a lot of ppl have on the issue. Reed looks more and more awkward as the interview goes one and appears to be biting his tongue somewhat. On Prime Time the other day he said when asked about evidence (other than testimony) he retorted "he slept in the same bed as them - what do you think he was doing with them [in his bed]".

I find it interesting too that a British person made this doc. I do recall in the 80's before any allegations the British Tabloids where vicious towards 'Wacko Jacko" - a term that originated in The Sun.

While that particular term may have originated in the Sun, the allegations against Jackson and rumours of his strange behaviour, certaintly did not. It was well known that his behaviour was strange "even by LA standards".

ToBeFrank123 · 07-03-2019 09:37PM

joe40 wrote: »

I know I'm been flippant here but if I'm on a work trip and choose to share a room and a bed with my glamorous female colleague, will the defence "nothing happened" carry much weight with the missus.
Seriously you know that at this stage there will be no evidence that stands up in a court of law.
But this is important Jackson is not on trial. His behaviour is been questioned especially in light of latest allegations, but also in relation to the stuff that has been well documented, but viewed in a different light nowadays.
If a current celebrity was behaving like jackson did with kids it would not be widely accepted.
As a society, not just in Ireland, we have all grown up a bit in relation to child abuse.
Imagine Ed Sherran sharing a bed with children.

Its viewed in the same light today as it was then. Odd, eccentric, unusual, creepy. However some people set the bar higher in terms of proof than others. Some people only accept evidence admissible in court and witnesses cross examined in court. Others meanwhile are ok accepting evidence and witness statements presented in a commercial documentary/film which needs to be explosive to get put on TV and with zero cross examination of witnesses.
So forgive me for setting the evidence bar higher than this. I was never one for mob justice or kangaroo courts. Unless the case is presented and tried in court, its pretty much just entertainment for the masses and little more.

We've had numerous people tried by media in recent years - everyone was sure they were guilty at the time. Turns out they were completely innocent when it went to court or the evidence was double checked. Some went to their grave with an untrue stain on their character.

Mrcaramelchoc · 07-03-2019 09:37PM

Has lisa Marie anything to say on all of it?probably not allowed open her mouth.

Beechwoodspark · 07-03-2019 09:39PM

What sickens me is his whole family facilitiated him and continue to deny in a desperate attempt to somehow keep him marketable. Dirty bastards all

ToBeFrank123 · 07-03-2019 09:42PM

Beechwoodspark wrote: »

What sickens me is his whole family facilitiated him and continue to deny in a desperate attempt to somehow keep him marketable. Dirty bastards all

I'm sure your post will get many thanks but unless they were in the bedroom with him they know as much as the rest of us.

turbbo · 07-03-2019 09:43PM

Boggles wrote: »

I don't.

I think this should be enough to not bother engaging in a debate anymore!

turbbo · 07-03-2019 09:45PM

Deebles McBeebles wrote: »

I do and freely admit the US justice system makes mistakes, such as OJ. I don't think this is the case with MJ though. However, I may be proven wrong. Some people are so certain they can't even wait for this to be brought back to court, its justice by documentary.

Fair enough I can agree to disagree with you Deebles but Boggles you're ignored from now on!

Beechwoodspark · 07-03-2019 09:46PM

ToBeFrank123 wrote: »

I'm sure your post will get many thanks but unless they were in the bedroom with him they know as much as the rest of us.

Sorry but I am not remotely taken in by your desperate attempts to deny reality.

My message to Jackson “fans”-It’s over.

He’s consigned to the rubbish tip of history and good riddance.

ToBeFrank123 · 07-03-2019 09:49PM

Beechwoodspark wrote: »

Sorry but I am not remotely taken in by your desperate attempts to deny reality.

My message to Jackson “fans”-It’s over.

He’s consigned to the rubbish tip of history and good riddance.

The only thing I'm a mega fan of is trial by courtroom rather than documentary.

But maybe we should shut down the courts and hand over trials to film-makers.

ebbsy · 07-03-2019 09:49PM

Those 2 men looked like they had been coached very well in the way they delivered their so called truths.

Wonder how much they got paid ???

Beechwoodspark · 07-03-2019 09:50PM

ToBeFrank123 wrote: »

The only thing I'm a mega fan of is trial by courtroom rather than documentary.

But maybe we should shut down the courts and hand over trials to film-makers.

Stop trying to pathetically defend him. It’s not working. It’s over. Go home. Take the wacko jacko cds with ye

ebbsy · 07-03-2019 09:53PM

ToBeFrank123 wrote: »

Beechwoodspark wrote: »

Sorry but I am not remotely taken in by your desperate attempts to deny reality.

My message to Jackson “fans”-It’s over.

He’s consigned to the rubbish tip of history and good riddance.

The only thing I'm a mega fan of is trial by courtroom rather than documentary.

But maybe we should shut down the courts and hand over trials to film-makers.

Good point.

I ask again - how much did these 2 guys get paid ?

joe40 · 07-03-2019 09:54PM

ToBeFrank123 wrote: »

joe40 wrote: »

I know I'm been flippant here but if I'm on a work trip and choose to share a room and a bed with my glamorous female colleague, will the defence "nothing happened" carry much weight with the missus.
Seriously you know that at this stage there will be no evidence that stands up in a court of law.
But this is important Jackson is not on trial. His behaviour is been questioned especially in light of latest allegations, but also in relation to the stuff that has been well documented, but viewed in a different light nowadays.
If a current celebrity was behaving like jackson did with kids it would not be widely accepted.
As a society, not just in Ireland, we have all grown up a bit in relation to child abuse.
Imagine Ed Sherran sharing a bed with children.

Its viewed in the same light today as it was then. Odd, eccentric, unusual, creepy. However some people set the bar higher in terms of proof than others. Some people only accept evidence admissible in court and witnesses cross examined in court. Others meanwhile are ok accepting evidence and witness statements presented in a commercial documentary/film which needs to be explosive to get put on TV and with zero cross examination of witnesses.
So forgive me for setting the evidence bar higher than this. I was never one for mob justice or kangaroo courts. Unless the case is presented and tried in court, its pretty much just entertainment for the masses and little more.

We've had numerous people tried by media in recent years - everyone was sure they were guilty at the time. Turns out they were completely innocent when it went to court or the evidence was double checked. Some went to their grave with an untrue stain on their character.

"Odd, eccentric, unusual, creepy"
Is that honestly how you view Michael Jackson's behaviour. The well established stuff that is.

With the benefit of hindsight his behaviour was extremely high risk to say the least.
Can you honestly tell me you would support, (as in buy music etc) a current muscian behaving like that and not question the behaviour

goat2 · 07-03-2019 10:00PM

I watched the first episode of this story,
My take on it is, the boy was seven and his mother saw nothing wrong with him sleeping with a grown man,
The mom left her husband in Australia to travel to America with her son and M Jackson, She was supposed to be the childs guardian, how could she be that innocent not to question why this grown man sleeping with her son,

Mam of 4 · 07-03-2019 10:02PM

Part two is starting on Ch 4 ,'now , 9pm .

ebbsy · 07-03-2019 10:03PM

goat2 wrote: »

I watched the first episode of this story,
My take on it is, the boy was seven and his mother saw nothing wrong with him sleeping with a grown man,
The mom left her husband in Australia to travel to America with her son and M Jackson, She was supposed to be the childs guardian, how could she be that innocent not to question why this grown man sleeping with her son,

Because like those 2 men last night, she was getting paid a barrow load of cash.

This is what it's all about. Spondulicks.

AllForIt · 07-03-2019 10:07PM

Lady Spangles wrote: »

While that particular term may have originated in the Sun, the allegations against Jackson and rumours of his strange behaviour, certaintly did not. It was well known that his behaviour was strange "even by LA standards".

I'm talking about the late 80's period. Child abuse allegations first surfaced in 1993 according to wikipedia.

I'm referring to stories such as the bubbles the monkey story, sleeping in an oxygen tank to preserve himself, etc etc.

From the MJ wiki page:

In 1986, the tabloids ran a story claiming that he slept in a hyperbaric oxygen chamber to slow aging, and was pictured lying in a glass box. The claim was untrue; widely cited tabloid reports state that Jackson disseminated the fabricated story himself.[120] When Jackson bought a chimpanzee named Bubbles from a laboratory, he was reported as increasingly detached from reality.[121] It was reported that Jackson had offered to buy the bones of Joseph Merrick (the "Elephant Man") and, although the story was untrue, Jackson did not deny it.[122] He initially saw these stories as opportunities for publicity, but stopped leaking them to the press as they became more sensational. The media then began fabricating stories.[120][123][124] These stories became embedded in the public consciousness, inspiring the nickname "Wacko Jacko", which Jackson came to despise.[9][125]

I make the point again. The British press were particularly vicious to Jackson way before any child abuse allegations. I know, because I remember it. If he were one of their own they wouldn't have been.

Call me Al · 07-03-2019 10:15PM

ToBeFrank123 wrote: »

I think in the interests of balance (something badly missing) Jackson was friends with a lot of people who ranged from elderly or middle aged (Liz Taylor, Diana Ross, etc) right down to kids. So he wasn't just friends with kids, he was friends with people of all ages. Its being portrayed that he spent his entire life hanging around kids or something like that. He spent time with kids, he spent time with adults. That needs to be said. He spent time with a lot of people, but commentators only want to focus on the fact he spent time with kids and ignore practically everything else. Balance is important.

Yeah... He only slept with little boys though.. unless you can find the balance for that.

Paully D · 07-03-2019 10:17PM

Probably mentioned already but I see RTÉ have said they won’t be playlisting his music any more.

Using that logic, I assume they’ll now stop broadcasting anything to do with Catholicism? The Angelus, Mass etc?

0ph0rce0 · 07-03-2019 10:20PM

Watching on channel 4 now. Pure lies

ceadaoin. · 07-03-2019 10:25PM

ebbsy wrote: »

Those 2 men looked like they had been coached very well in the way they delivered their so called truths.

Wonder how much they got paid ???

They didn't get paid for the documentary. The director has been clear about this

Micky Jackson in trouble again

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