Donald Trump presidency discussion thread V

aloyisious · 06-03-2019 10:42pm

Here's a thought. What would happen if Don was to roll over, for the sake of his family, business and his self-esteem and throw the GOP/whomever under the bus? He has to have as much knowledge of complicity as all those who worked with/for him over the past few years to offer if he was shown whatever federal and state criminal & civil evidence there was against him with prosecutors. What if they flipped him?

Toss in an offer of immunity from prosecution for past offences and no impeachment moves or trial. Stipulate all back & future taxes must be paid to cover all Govt sides. There also would be no pension paid to him for his presidency years, whatever about providing minimal Secret Service security necessary for him till he was dead.

His immediate family would have to be included in the no prosecution offer. Look at it with cold blooded eyes and not with prejudiced Dem, GOP, Trump or anti-Trump eyes. Would you go for it as a prosecutor and get your name etched into US history - the person who took down a president?

Igotadose · 07-03-2019 9:49am

Many of those here who were pro-Trump in the election because he'd reduce drone use - well, you got your wish! He's instructed the CIA to stop reporting on drone-caused casualties! #win!

https://www.rte.ie/news/2019/0307/1034805-trump_drones/

"US President Donald Trump has revoked a policy that required the Central Intelligence Agency to account for civilian deaths from drone strikes."

See? Problem solved in Trumpworld!

Stallingrad · 07-03-2019 10:13am

Here is another scene, try and picture it.

The inauguration of the next Democrat President, will Trump even show up? Could he bare being there as the loser? Could he show the humility and courtesy required as past exiting Presidents have? Will he revel in the opportunity to spread his divisive agenda for the last time to discredit the next Presidency?

jooksavage · 07-03-2019 10:53am

Stallingrad wrote: »

Here is another scene, try and picture it.

The inauguration of the next Democrat President, will Trump even show up? Could be bare being there as the loser? Could he show the humility and courtesy required as past exiting Presidents have? Will he revel in the opportunity to spread his divisive agenda for the last time to discredit the next Presidency?

Would Trump even concede defeat?

Last week Cohen said that if Trump loses in 2020, he's worried there won't be a peaceful transition of power. That might sound like hyperbole but remember, Trump's own reelection campaign recently said the Democratic candidate has "zero chance of winning legitimately". What happens if Trump chalks up a loss to baseless accusations of voter fraud? Can we assume every Republican in the Senate would turf him out of the WH? Would they all resist demands for another election? I'm sure most would. But, faced with the prospect of supporting a left-leaning Democrat over the candidate of his base, who knows what the likes of Lindsay Graham would do?

If Trump failed to accept a loss and wasn't roundly rebuked by each side, American democracy would be in serious trouble. The next president, and every president after them would have their legitimacy called into question. A system like that can only hold together for so long.

everlast75 · 07-03-2019 10:56am

aloyisious wrote: »

Here's a thought. What would happen if Don was to roll over, for the sake of his family, business and his self-esteem and throw the GOP/whomever under the bus? He has to have as much knowledge of complicity as all those who worked with/for him over the past few years to offer if he was shown whatever federal and state criminal & civil evidence there was against him with prosecutors. What if they flipped him?

Toss in an offer of immunity from prosecution for past offences and no impeachment moves or trial. Stipulate all back & future taxes must be paid to cover all Govt sides. There also would be no pension paid to him for his presidency years, whatever about providing minimal Secret Service security necessary for him till he was dead.

His immediate family would have to be included in the no prosecution offer. Look at it with cold blooded eyes and not with prejudiced Dem, GOP, Trump or anti-Trump eyes. Would you go for it as a prosecutor and get your name etched into US history - the person who took down a president?

Many people on here and elsewhere have said he won't take such a deal.

I disagree. I think he is a coward. I think he will actively seek such a deal when he realises the legal jeopardy he (and less so his sons) will face.

Interesting footage yesterday of Cohen bringing receipts...

https://twitter.com/mchalfant16/status/1103295287572025345?s=19

Billy Mays · 07-03-2019 11:04am

There is absolutely zero chance of Trump accepting defeat to a Democrat in a presidential election. Cohen was spot on in what he said about 2020.

check_six · 07-03-2019 11:09am

jooksavage wrote: »

Would Trump even concede defeat?

Last week Cohen said that if Trump loses in 2020, he's worried there won't be a peaceful transition of power. That might sound like hyperbole but remember, Trump's own reelection campaign recently said the Democratic candidate has "zero chance of winning legitimately".

While the '16 election results were being counted and it was initially looking like it would go against him, Trump was claiming massive voter fraud and rigged elections. I think he was even hinting at calling for armed insurrection in the days before the election if he wasn't announced the winner. He will not go without stirring up a hornets nest of militants, intentionally or not.

pixelburp · 07-03-2019 11:18am

Oh yes, it's always worth remembering that even during the campaign, Trump prevaricated when asked if he'd accept an election result in Clinton's favour. Heck, remember those 'millions' of illegal votes in California? And the resulting horsesh*t investigation into voter fraud by Kris Kobach?

With his talk of the press being the 'Enemy of the People' - multiple times and has already seen at least one wingnut act on that provocation - and other insidious comments about the Democrats throwing the election or cheating, it's blatantly obvious the ground is being prepped for Trump & his most vocal supporters to scream conspiracy if they lose in 2020.

IMO there's a legitimate chance of Trump stirring up some form of violent protest. It's irresponsible, dangerous and I don't think Trump either knows nor cares the kind of fire he's playing with here.

It'll be the GOP leadership and foot soldiers that will be the ones to watch; if they start parroting the talk of legitimacy or fraud, then there truly will be a path of no return crossed...

mcmoustache · 07-03-2019 11:45am

There are reports today that Cohen reached out to Trump for a pardon. This would contradict what he said in his public testimony. This reaching out was also confirmed by his lawyer Lanny Davis for some reason. Something weird is going on but things were already weird when Dmitry Firtash's spokesman/attorney is representing Cohen.

Whatever is going on, whether Cohen is serious about cooperating, at least he has receipts because his credibility leaves a lot to be desired.

everlast75 · 07-03-2019 11:49am

mcmoustache wrote: »

Whatever is going on, whether Cohen is serious about cooperating, at least he has receipts because his credibility leaves a lot to be desired.

Agreed. He should only be believed when there is corroborating evidence.

And I'm 100% behind throwing him in jail (for longer) if he's purgered himself. 100%.

There needs to be zero tolerance on those enemies of the Pres for doing this, so that the same can be applied to those pro-Trump without hypocrisy.

aloyisious · 07-03-2019 11:51am

So, the election being one year away, it's best for the US to prevent Don getting it embroiled in a foreign adventure for "heroic" reasons of his making. I hope his NSA can keep him reined in. An inflated body bag count is the last thing the US wants or needs.

aloyisious · 07-03-2019 12:03pm

Cohens lawyer Lanny Davis said his client reached out to Trump for a pardon, making it plain his client may have perjured himself before Congress and MC's other lawyer may have connections to a Ukraine wanted by the US justice system, said Ukrainian having probable backdoor connections to Moscow central?

One has to wonder if the Dem Pols in congress were made aware of this before publication of the media report/s.

Havockk · 07-03-2019 12:27pm

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-47480207

So much for draining the swamp. Donald IS the swamp.

1,878 Drone strikes in TOTAL under Obama in 8 years
2,243 in 2 years under Trump

And worst of all, they no longer have to report about them. What a mess of corruption.

duploelabs · 07-03-2019 12:28pm

jooksavage wrote: »

Would Trump even concede defeat?

Last week Cohen said that if Trump loses in 2020, he's worried there won't be a peaceful transition of power. That might sound like hyperbole but remember, Trump's own reelection campaign recently said the Democratic candidate has "zero chance of winning legitimately". What happens if Trump chalks up a loss to baseless accusations of voter fraud? Can we assume every Republican in the Senate would turf him out of the WH? Would they all resist demands for another election? I'm sure most would. But, faced with the prospect of supporting a left-leaning Democrat over the candidate of his base, who knows what the likes of Lindsay Graham would do?

If Trump failed to accept a loss and wasn't roundly rebuked by each side, American democracy would be in serious trouble. The next president, and every president after them would have their legitimacy called into question. A system like that can only hold together for so long.

The bar has been set, by his own emotional stability, that I expect a full-on toddler tantrum when Trump is removed. Anything more dignified would be impressive.

On the aspect of taking a deal. Trump has surrounded his life with Yes men. He has been told what he wants to hear all the time and has built up a mentality of that, and continues to do so. When Rudy said that 'Truth isn't Truth' I think he may have been trying to explain that, Trump's reality is not a true reflection on what is actually happening as he's constantly told an editorialised version of events. Trumps defiance in calling the Mueller investigation a 'witch hunt' is reinforced by those around him, and it won't be until the law enforcement are there with the bracelets will he actually realise that it isn't a 'hoax'.
So I still believe that Trump thinks he's in no danger and he won't make any plans to take a plea deal.

Schnitzler Hiyori Geta · 07-03-2019 12:48pm

Former CIA Director John Brennan on MSNBC yesterday seeming to believe that there are more indictments coming on Friday. He also made an interesting point which is that we shouldn't expect any Trump family indictments until the Mueller report is finished and all other indictments have been issued, as Brennan points out that Trump would almost certainly immediately fire Mueller if/when a family member is indicted.

mcmoustache · 07-03-2019 12:50pm

I'm not sure why he's expecting them on Friday though. There hasn't been anything unusual about this week in comparison to other weeks.

Schnitzler Hiyori Geta · 07-03-2019 12:57pm

mcmoustache wrote: »

I'm not sure why he's expecting them on Friday though. There hasn't been anything unusual about this week in comparison to other weeks.

His logic seemed to be that all accounts are that the Mueller report is effectively finished, that there will be indictments of Trump family members but that there are others. So, non-Trump indictments this Friday, no indictments next Friday (Ides of March) and Trump family indictments on 22nd or 29th alongside submitting report and closing investigation (and getting fired).

Trent Houseboat · 07-03-2019 2:56pm

I know it has to be true at some stage, but people have been saying that the special counsel investigation is about to wrap for about 18 months.

MadYaker · 07-03-2019 3:22pm

Anyone still confident he’ll be removed some way or another before the election? I never thought so and I doubt the report will change much.

Havockk · 07-03-2019 3:43pm

MadYaker wrote: »

Anyone still confident he’ll be removed some way or another before the election? I never thought so and I doubt the report will change much.

The powers that be are running amok, getting what they need passed without question. I'd be surprised if he doesn't win reelection at this point.

mcmoustache · 07-03-2019 3:57pm

MadYaker wrote: »

Anyone still confident he’ll be removed some way or another before the election? I never thought so and I doubt the report will change much.

I still think conviction on impeachment is unlikely. Sure, the house could impeach but I doubt that the senate would convict with 67 votes or more.

The Dems may calculate that they are better off Benghaziing the crap out of Trump instead and bring a lot of the facts of his corruption and dodgy Russia ties further into the public sphere.

Personally, I think that they are better off leaving him there to hobble along showing his ineptitude. The could wind up with an unelectable incumbent that can't be ditched by his party.

Penn · 07-03-2019 4:07pm

mcmoustache wrote: »

I still think conviction on impeachment is unlikely. Sure, the house could impeach but I doubt that the senate would convict with 67 votes or more.

The Dems may calculate that they are better off Benghaziing the crap out of Trump instead and bring a lot of the facts of his corruption and dodgy Russia ties further into the public sphere.

Personally, I think that they are better off leaving him there to hobble along showing his ineptitude. The could wind up with an unelectable incumbent that can't be ditched by his party.

Yeah their best bet may be to announce they won't indict/impeach while he's President, and then use the pending charges against him as basically a campaign slogan. Hammer him at every turn. Spend from now until the election also making the point of how the GOP are in league with and supported him all the time.

It could increase the chances of Trump trying to hold on to power even if he loses the election, or Trump/GOP going full-bore in voter suppression, but on the flip side, the Dems need to be doing everything they can to ensure people can vote. Organise campaigns to help make sure people are solidly registered to vote, or have sufficient ID so they can't be turned away etc. The GOP tactics regarding voter suppression are known at this point, and there's only so much they can try and do. The Dems need to get out ahead of that.

Schnitzler Hiyori Geta · 07-03-2019 4:30pm

Trent Houseboat wrote: »

I know it has to be true at some stage, but people have been saying that the special counsel investigation is about to wrap for about 18 months.

I've been following closely and I've yet to see serious journalistic reporting that the investigation was close to wrapping up until about 2 weeks ago.

eire4 · 07-03-2019 5:19pm

MadYaker wrote: »

Anyone still confident he’ll be removed some way or another before the election? I never thought so and I doubt the report will change much.

I highly doubt it. The world and the USA would be better off if he was but I just do not see any incentive for the Democrats to push hard for impeachment. As long as the Republicans are in lock step in the senate there is no reason at all for the Democrats to start any impeachment hearings in the house. Besides they may also feel they are better off running against a scandal crippled incumbent in 2020 anyway. It certainly helped them in the midterms last year.

ct5amr2ig1nfhp · 07-03-2019 5:21pm

Is there some elaborate game being played by both Trump and Cohen? Could they still be in cahoots?

Let Cohen go out and act the hero, Trump blasts him for being a liar, it's all fake news etc. Let it distract from any other possible crimes. Cohen then gets found out for lying this entire time, Trump can roll out the "I told you so, it's all lies, fake news etc". Well if Cohen was lying, the other crimes must be all Dem lies too. Cohen goes to jail but gets a pardon before Don leaves office. Plausible?

duploelabs · 07-03-2019 5:37pm

Bryant Magnificent Housefly wrote: »

Is there some elaborate game being played by both Trump and Cohen? Could they still be in cahoots?

Let Cohen go out and act the hero, Trump blasts him for being a liar, it's all fake news etc. Let it distract from any other possible crimes. Cohen then gets found out for lying this entire time, Trump can roll out the "I told you so, it's all lies, fake news etc". Cohen goes to jail but gets a pardon before Don leaves office. Plausible?

Given the list of the subpoenas seen the other day arising from Cohen's public testimony and the current 17 (i think) other investigations in to trump and trump org in the SDNY, are you suggesting there are further crimes to be investigated

ct5amr2ig1nfhp · 07-03-2019 5:41pm

To my knowledge Trump hasn't been charged with any crimes yet, so I am correct in saying 'possible' crimes.

Going back to my point, is it possible that the whole case against Cohen has been orchestrated by Trump and Cohen to discredit any other potential investigations?

duploelabs wrote: »

Given the list of the subpoenas seen the other day arising from Cohen's public testimony and the current 17 (i think) other investigations in to trump and trump org in the SDNY, are you suggesting there are further crimes to be investigated

duploelabs · 07-03-2019 6:20pm

Bryant Magnificent Housefly wrote: »

To my knowledge Trump hasn't been charged with any crimes yet, so I am correct in saying 'possible' crimes.

Going back to my point, is it possible that the whole case against Cohen has been orchestrated by Trump and Cohen to discredit any other potential investigations?

He can't be be charged due to a doj fuzziness on the issue however He's been listed as unindicted co-conspiractor.
As to this being some grand plan? I highly doubt it considering the time Cohen is due to do and the ineptitude of the other parties

DrumSteve · 07-03-2019 6:22pm

Bryant Magnificent Housefly wrote: »

To my knowledge Trump hasn't been charged with any crimes yet, so I am correct in saying 'possible' crimes.

Going back to my point, is it possible that the whole case against Cohen has been orchestrated by Trump and Cohen to discredit any other potential investigations?

I'd being thinking something like that myself especially after watching his testimony.

I'm pretty sure if something like that happened the entire American political system might implode.

PropJoe10 · 07-03-2019 6:47pm

Bryant Magnificent Housefly wrote: »

To my knowledge Trump hasn't been charged with any crimes yet, so I am correct in saying 'possible' crimes.

Going back to my point, is it possible that the whole case against Cohen has been orchestrated by Trump and Cohen to discredit any other potential investigations?

Trump's current legal team is headed by Rudy Giuliani. I'd find it very hard to believe that he's capable of organising anything that complicated. Nothing is impossible, but I don't believe that Trump/Cohen would be capable of fooling Mueller like that!

Donald Trump presidency discussion thread V

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