Guinness Pro14 Season 2018-2019

Burkie1203 · 27-02-2019 9:04am

Wales on the verge is another slam. And this

https://twitter.com/simonrug/status/1100460253802569729?s=19

troyzer · 27-02-2019 9:05am

Burkie1203 wrote: »

Wales on the verge is another slam. And this

https://twitter.com/simonrug/status/1100460253802569729?s=19

A north Wales team baffles me.

PMC83 · 27-02-2019 9:28am

What a mess, Dragons should go!

Also, any word on the pro14 expansion? Was that set to happen from next season? Seems to have gone quiet

troyzer · 27-02-2019 9:31am

PMC83 wrote: »

What a mess, Dragons should go!

Also, any word on the pro14 expansion? Was that set to happen from next season? Seems to have gone quiet

Newport-Gwent region is one of the historical bulk suppliers to the Welsh national team. It's the most populous county in Wales and the WRUs experience with regionalisation is that fans will not support non-local team. If they ditch the Dragons, the grassroots will probably rather look across the Severn to Bristol than the hated Blues.

Tigerandahalf · 27-02-2019 10:24am

That is a map of the Welsh regions
Llanelli (red)
Ospreys (black)
Cardiff (blue)
Dragons (orange)

As you can see Llanelli have a huge area to the north of them thus one of the reasons for a team in Colwyn Bay (Wales u20s play their games there, capacity about 8,000).

AdamD · 27-02-2019 10:26am

I'm sure they have decent reasoning but on the face of it Dragons staying and Ospreys going looks bizarre.

At present, the Dragons playing budget is around £4.5m, the Blues £6m, the Ospreys about £6.2m and the Scarlets in the region of £7m.

Collectively, that’s a lot less than the four Irish provinces, with European champions Leinster believed to operate on something like £8m.

Pretty interesting

troyzer · 27-02-2019 10:27am

Tigerandahalf wrote: »

That is a map of the Welsh regions
Llanelli (red)
Ospreys (black)
Cardiff (blue)
Dragons (orange)

As you can see Llanelli have a huge area to the north of them thus one of the reasons for a team in Colwyn Bay (Wales u20s play their games there, capacity about 8,000).

Wales isn't a big sport in the north though and most of the few fans there would actually be Ospreys fans. The WRU are banking on an RGC team creating interest in the sport. That's a pretty big risk.

troyzer · 27-02-2019 10:28am

AdamD wrote: »

I'm sure they have decent reasoning but on the face of it Dragons staying and Ospreys going looks bizarre.

Pretty interesting

Dragons have a much larger hinterland and support base. Merging the Blues and Ospreys into a Glamorgan team is more workable.

Getting rid of Scarlets is actually the obvious choice economically but they've been by far the most successful team so it's politically impossible.

stephen_n · 27-02-2019 10:48am

I thought there was little or no following for rugby in north Wales’s?

Also given how small the Dragons area is and the sh1t show the club is. Surely absorbing them into Cardiff would make more sense.

Tigerandahalf · 27-02-2019 10:50am

The reason for the team in the north is that there is meant to be financial backing for it, I presume private.
From what I read the only pro team in the north is wrexham soccer club.

A big thing I presume is whether clubs own their own stadiums.

Cardiff rent theirs for small money
Dragons share with Newport County FC
Ospreys share with Swansea FC
Llanelli own their ground

So you would think the Dragons and the Ospreys are tied into ground deals and have that property going forward.

I can't see there not been a club based in Cardiff city and can they remove the Ospreys from the 2nd biggest city, Swansea?

It seems going by the article above that the Ospreys were to be sacrificed.

Simom Thomas also mentions the budgets of the clubs, saying Leinster are on about £8m, Llanelli £7m with the other Welsh clubs about the £5/6m mark. I don't know if that takes into account the central contracts of players.

troyzer · 27-02-2019 10:51am

stephen_n wrote: »

I thought there was little or no following for rugby in north Wales’s?

Also given how small the Dragons area is and the sh1t show the club is. Surely absorbing them into Cardiff would make more sense.

Nope. The fans wouldn't support them. The Blues and Newport in the amateur era were fierce rivals and that's still baked into the rugby culture. The Blues fans refuse to change the name and the Newport fans won't support any team seen as a successor to the old Blues team.

Cookiemunster · 27-02-2019 10:52am

troyzer wrote: »

Dragons have a much larger hinterland and support base. Merging the Blues and Ospreys into a Glamorgan team is more workable.

Getting rid of Scarlets is actually the obvious choice economically but they've been by far the most successful team so it's politically impossible.

They're the most successful side recently. They've won 2 Celtic/Magners/Pro titles. Ospreys have won 4.

troyzer · 27-02-2019 10:54am

Cookiemunster wrote: »

They're the most successful side recently. They've won 2 Celtic/Magners/Pro titles. Ospreys have won 4.

I meant recently of course.

thomond2006 · 27-02-2019 10:55am

Scarlets built their own stadium only ten years ago and have been the best Welsh region in the last three or so seasons. It would be insane to bin them.

troyzer · 27-02-2019 10:59am

thomond2006 wrote: »

Scarlets built their own stadium only ten years ago. It would be insane to can them.

Yes and no, Llanelli RFC brings in big numbers.

awec · 27-02-2019 1:30pm

Tigerandahalf wrote: »

That is a map of the Welsh regions
Llanelli (red)
Ospreys (black)
Cardiff (blue)
Dragons (orange)

As you can see Llanelli have a huge area to the north of them thus one of the reasons for a team in Colwyn Bay (Wales u20s play their games there, capacity about 8,000).

Geographically the split looks really odd, but I am pretty sure it was done in a way to try balance player numbers and interest levels.

Eod100 · 27-02-2019 2:09pm

From what I can see they're still going to have 4 teams but 1 will be new meaning 1 of current 4 either folds or merges? From outside looking in Dragons folding would be obvious choice but seems geographically/politically there's a lot of resistance to it.

errlloyd · 27-02-2019 2:17pm

Eod100 wrote: »

From what I can see they're still going to have 4 teams but 1 will be new meaning 1 of current 4 either folds or merges? From outside looking in Dragons folding would be obvious choice but seems geographically/politically there's a lot of resistance to it.

The beeb article suggested merging Os and Cardiff

awec · 27-02-2019 5:02pm

https://www.bbc.com/sport/rugby-union/47388295

Pro14: Georgia in talks to join competition

Pro14 seems hell-bent on diluting it's product until it's virtually worthless. Just what the league needs, more pointless fixtures against crap teams.

PMC83 · 27-02-2019 5:16pm

awec wrote: »

https://www.bbc.com/sport/rugby-union/47388295

Pro14: Georgia in talks to join competition

Pro14 seems hell-bent on diluting it's product until it's virtually worthless. Just what the league needs, more pointless fixtures against crap teams.

Honestly I'd rather these lads then 2 currie cup teams (which is what was last reported). Could end up like the Jaguares in super rugby where its pretty much the national team playing week in and week out and actually going ok.
Georgian rugby needs a chance to step up at some stage. If not the pro14 then the pro d2?

troyzer · 27-02-2019 5:26pm

Georgia is a great addition. They wouldn't be utterly ****e for long, they have serious talent in the forwards and a lot of their internationals in France aren't making huge money. Pro14 salaries are competitive below the marquee level.

Cookiemunster · 27-02-2019 5:27pm

awec wrote: »

https://www.bbc.com/sport/rugby-union/47388295

Pro14: Georgia in talks to join competition

Pro14 seems hell-bent on diluting it's product until it's virtually worthless. Just what the league needs, more pointless fixtures against crap teams.

You're being a bit disingenuous there. The Georgia coach said they'd like to put a team in franchise league, have had talks with different competitions and mentions Pro14, Currie Cup and Super Rugby. There's no commitment from anyone and no comment from anyone else.

Time to take a step back from the Pro14 bashing until there's anything other than speculation.

Utah_Saint · 27-02-2019 5:40pm

I'd prefer the Georgian team to join Pro14 instead of anymore SA teams as mention by a previous poster. They would throw everything behind the team. Probably Government money too.

Former Former · 27-02-2019 5:43pm

This would be an awful idea for the Pro14. The exact opposite of what it needs.

I suspect there isn't much substance behind this anyway. If things were really progressing, they wouldn't be blabbing about it.

jacothelad · 27-02-2019 7:18pm

stephen_n wrote: »

I thought there was little or no following for rugby in north Wales’s?

.

There is plenty of support in North Wales. I played there in the early 1970s and every village has a team. One problem is the lowish population of most of the region....Snowdonia and Brecon is pretty but wilderness. Another is it's proximity to Liverpool and Manchester, both of which apparently have popular wendyball teams.

molloyjh · 28-02-2019 12:54pm

Cookiemunster wrote: »

You're being a bit disingenuous there. The Georgia coach said they'd like to put a team in franchise league, have had talks with different competitions and mentions Pro14, Currie Cup and Super Rugby. There's no commitment from anyone and no comment from anyone else.

Time to take a step back from the Pro14 bashing until there's anything other than speculation.

Yeah, if you look at the full quote it certainly doesn’t suggest that talks are at anything approaching an advanced stage.

"The next step for us is trying to get into a franchise competition - it could be the Currie Cup, it could be the Pro14, it could be Super Rugby," Haig added.

"Like most countries, to be successful at a high level of international rugby you need a stepping stone.

"Preferably it is European but after that as long as it is competitive and cost-effective then we will take anything."

thomond2006 · 01-03-2019 10:52am

https://twitter.com/CheetahsRugby/status/1101375035133095936?s=19

Hopefully the Cheetahs can lock down more players to long term deals.

AdamD · 01-03-2019 11:24am

3 year deal is pretty telling isn't it? Must be confident they're sticking around. They could turn into a very strong team if (big if) they kept their players.

Zzippy · 01-03-2019 11:50am

jacothelad wrote: »

There is plenty of support in North Wales. I played there in the early 1970s and every village has a team. One problem is the lowish population of most of the region....Snowdonia and Brecon is pretty but wilderness. Another is it's proximity to Liverpool and Manchester, both of which apparently have popular wendyball teams.

Sure you mean the 1930s jaco?

Psst, his memory is going, lads....

Eod100 · 01-03-2019 2:33pm

Know this rumour has been knocking about for a while and it's all speculation but interesting all the same.

Would these teams leave Super Rugby altogether? Or play a 2nd team in Pro16 say?

Also, seems to suggest league would revert to one league with 16 teams rather than 2 conferences of 8. Would solve issue of conferences not being fully equal some seasons but had feeling that Pro14 were committed to conferences.

https://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/pro14-poised-become-pro16-super-15906502.amp?__twitter_impression=true

Guinness Pro14 Season 2018-2019

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