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Obesity crisis in Ireland Mod Note post 1

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    #542
    Ardillaun
    Registered Users Posts: 2,542 ✭✭✭Ardillaun


    Augeo wrote: »
    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/average-height-of-irish-men-is-8cm-more-than-100-years-ago-1.1513940?mode=amp

    3 inches in 100 years according to that, for Ireland.

    Sorry, I meant less in the last generation. That change wasn’t seen in 30 years.


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    #543
    _Brian
    Registered Users Posts: 18,486 ✭✭✭✭_Brian


    Wibbs wrote: »
    Not this again. No, we do not have "massively longer lifespans" compared to a century ago. Through medical science we've added around a decade to our lives, so people who would have made it to 70 a hundred years ago now are much more likely to see 80 and 80 year olds are more likely to see 90. Even two thousand years ago the average life span was considered to be three score and ten, four score if you were lucky. What has changed and shifted the figures is an enormous reduction in childhood mortality, rather than any "massive" increase in longevity in adults.

    And yet a shed load of research has shown that being somewhat overweight is a positive factor for longevity.

    Oh and I have no skin in this game on the weight front being thin myself.


    Its near 20% increase individually and near 100% for the overall population, not insignificant.


    "somewhat overweight" is not obease, obeasity shotrens lifespans and reduces quality of life as well


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    #544
    Wibbs
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,093 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    _Brian wrote: »
    Its near 20% increase individually and near 100% for the overall population, not insignificant.
    It's not "massively longer lifespans". It's gone from around 70 at death to 80, if you survived childhood.

    "somewhat overweight" is not obease, obeasity shotrens lifespans and reduces quality of life as well
    Actually those studies ad there have been a few and were linked earlier in the thread showed overweight people overall, including the obese showed a longevity advantage over average and thin people.

    Rejoice in the awareness of feeling stupid, for that’s how you end up learning new things. If you’re not aware you’re stupid, you probably are.



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    #545
    Ardillaun
    Registered Users Posts: 2,542 ✭✭✭Ardillaun


    Zorya wrote: »
    Girls could play too by standing real close to their guy, and if they can't see their lads lad past their own tummy it's time to ditch the biscuits.

    A lad I knew in Newfoundland was called Dicky Do by all and sundry because a girlfriend once remarked that "his belly sticks out more than his dicky do".


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    #546
    Ardillaun
    Registered Users Posts: 2,542 ✭✭✭Ardillaun


    Obesity is a bit like relativity; you have to abandon your common sense and pre-conceived notions when you consider the matter and just follow the evidence. It's a weird and complex business full of feedback loops and counter-intuitive results.


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    #547
    Sam Hain
    Registered Users Posts: 1,315 ✭✭✭Sam Hain


    Ardillaun wrote: »
    A lad I knew in Newfoundland was called Dicky Do by all and sundry because a girlfriend once remarked that "his belly sticks out more than his dicky do".

    Dicky Does would have been his correct nickname only for the fact he obviously dated hillbillies.


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    #548
    Ardillaun
    Registered Users Posts: 2,542 ✭✭✭Ardillaun


    Sam Hain wrote: »
    Dicky Does would have been his correct nickname only for the fact he obviously dated hillbillies.

    We're all hillbillies over here. Das who we is b'y.


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    #549
    Ardillaun
    Registered Users Posts: 2,542 ✭✭✭Ardillaun


    Here's a Canadian doctor of mixed (Metis) ethnic heritage describing how returning to a more traditional Native diet helped him lose weight:

    https://www.cbc.ca/radio/checkup/what-s-the-best-way-to-tackle-canada-s-weight-problem-1.4558944/revisiting-my-big-fat-diet-how-a-métis-doctor-lost-weight-with-a-traditional-indigenous-diet-1.4562134

    And another story about carbs and the Metis:

    https://nationalpost.com/news/yes-to-berries-no-to-salt-aboriginal-man-goes-back-to-his-dietary-roots-in-order-to-lose-weight-live-healthier

    I wouldn't recommend this sort of thing in its entirety for us crazy Caucasoids but giving up the sugar (and alcohol) as much as possible is definitely a good idea. When it comes to carbs, err on the complex side and carefully peruse the contents of anything that says Low Fat because carbs like sucrose and fructose might well be replacing them. Low fat for the yoghurt doesn't necessarily mean low fat for you.


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    #550
    _Brian
    Registered Users Posts: 18,486 ✭✭✭✭_Brian


    In the vast, bast majority of cases it’s just a loss of self control.

    Hypostasising about genes and environment is just a side show.

    Obviously some families are genetically more prone to weight increases, but they will only increase weight if they continuously eat more energy than the expend, their bodies don’t magically produce energy to store as fat. If they eat less energy than they expend they will loose weight.

    People are choosing to ignore the basic physics of the problem.

    The phscyology of why they do this to themselves is desperately complex.


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    #551
    Wanderer78
    Registered Users Posts: 28,853 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    _Brian wrote:
    In the vast, bast majority of cases it’s just a loss of self control.


    Addiction generally isn't very pleasant, and is generally very complex


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    #552
    Ardillaun
    Registered Users Posts: 2,542 ✭✭✭Ardillaun


    _Brian wrote: »
    In the vast, bast majority of cases it’s just a loss of self control.

    Hypostasising about genes and environment is just a side show.

    Obviously some families are genetically more prone to weight increases, but they will only increase weight if they continuously eat more energy than the expend, their bodies don’t magically produce energy to store as fat. If they eat less energy than they expend they will loose weight.

    People are choosing to ignore the basic physics of the problem.

    The phscyology of why they do this to themselves is desperately complex.

    That depends on what you mean by 'self-control', a dense topic in itself. The thread contains evidence that the physics of weight gain is not as simple as it appears, e.g. intake is much more important than output and the availability of calorie-rich food has gone through the metaphorical roof like our numbers on the scale. Calvin was kinda right about predestination but we can still make a deal with Providence; the weight scenario is only sketched out by yer man above and can still be pushed down in our favour if we play our cards right. The fundamental point is this: give up on the blame.


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    #553
    dartboardio
    Registered Users Posts: 2,436 ✭✭✭dartboardio


    I was obese right up until a couple of years ago. Due to laziness.. Being fed 'oven food' as i call it like chicken kievs from the freezer etc and no veg. I got up to about 15..16 stone aged 16.

    Mostly it was due to my grandad bringing me to superquinn everyday after school when i was a young child and buying me donuts! That really developed my sweet tooth. Then id sit watching matilda while he waited on me like a butler. Hahah

    But i now have a much better relationship with food and cook everything from scratch.

    Im still kinda overweight and i can notice many people in Ireland are too. Sitting on a bus and 8/10 people are overweight including me. Thats kind of embarassing


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    #554
    4ensic15
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,691 ✭✭✭4ensic15


    dartboardio wrote: »
    I was obese right up until a couple of years ago. Due to laziness.. Being fed 'oven food' as i call it like chicken kievs from the freezer etc and no veg. I got up to about 15..16 stone aged 16.

    Mostly it was due to my grandad bringing me to superquinn everyday after school and buying me donuts! Then id sit watching matilda while he waited on me like a butler. Hahah

    But i now have a much better relationship with food and cook everything from scratch.

    Im still kinda overweight and i can notice many people in Ireland are too. Sitting on a bus and 8/10 people are overweight.. Thats kind of embarassing

    You should be sitting on a bus. You should be walking. Your obesity would decline rapidly.


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    #555
    Shanotheslayer
    Registered Users Posts: 17,191 ✭✭✭✭Shanotheslayer


    4ensic15 wrote: »
    You should be sitting on a bus. You should be walking. Your obesity would decline rapidly.

    Spell check.

    RIP your post


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    #556
    dartboardio
    Registered Users Posts: 2,436 ✭✭✭dartboardio


    4ensic15 wrote: »
    You should be sitting on a bus. You should be walking. Your obesity would decline rapidly.

    That makes sense......


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    #557
    Ardillaun
    Registered Users Posts: 2,542 ✭✭✭Ardillaun


    4ensic15 wrote: »
    You should be sitting on a bus. You should be walking. Your obesity would decline rapidly.

    Some walking is a good idea but we don’t want the lad walking twenty miles a day because the bus is forbidden.


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    #558
    TerrorFirmer
    Closed Accounts Posts: 29,930 ✭✭✭✭TerrorFirmer


    4ensic15 wrote: »
    You should be sitting on a bus. You should be walking. Your obesity would decline rapidly.

    Unless you were walking countless miles a day, it's not really going to make that much difference to someone who's noticably overweight or obese.

    Weight is overwhelmingly diet related, rather than exercise, for the vast majority of people.

    Moderate diet, moderate intensity exercise = healthy weight. It doesn't mean you can't eat unhealthy things, but it's about making an effort to balance everything and keep track of your calories.

    EG if you have a big takeaway, maybe have a light breakfast and lunch that day, and/or spend an extra 30 minutes in the gym, or whatever.

    You cannot outtrain or out-exercise a considerably excessive diet in almost every case (unless you're living in the gym or bulking as part of weight lifting).


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    #559
    dartboardio
    Registered Users Posts: 2,436 ✭✭✭dartboardio


    Ardillaun wrote: »
    Some walking is a good idea but we don’t want the lad walking twenty miles a day because the bus is forbidden.

    Lady but yeah i agree.

    For me my weight came off all with my diet being healthier and more balanced and very minimal exercise.

    As a pp said above its more about diet for some and that is definitely the case for me. Lost about 10 pounds in the last 4 weeks just by eating a more balanced diet.. Still eating out in a restaurant once a week with a few drinks and maybe having a pig out every so often like a regular person.

    I used to have a very active job but now im sitting at a computer all day so literally no exercise. Just goes to show the impact the diet alone can have. Crazy really


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    #560
    wakka12
    Registered Users Posts: 9,786 ✭✭✭wakka12


    Depends how much exercise you do. I started jogging for an hour a day without any change to my diet and the weight started falling off me and I started eating more so that I wasnt losing too much weight, an hour a day is a lot for most people though I suppose so diet is more important then, given how busy most peopels lifestyles are


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    #561
    dartboardio
    Registered Users Posts: 2,436 ✭✭✭dartboardio


    wakka12 wrote: »
    Depends how much exercise you do. I started jogging for an hour a day without any change to my diet and the weight started falling off me and I started eating more so that I wasnt losing too much weight, an hour a day is a lot for most people though I suppose so diet is more important then, given how busy most peopels lifestyles are

    Oh yeah dont get me wrong id love to excercise more just i cant find the time or should i say prioritise!


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    #562
    TerrorFirmer
    Closed Accounts Posts: 29,930 ✭✭✭✭TerrorFirmer


    wakka12 wrote: »
    Depends how much exercise you do. I started jogging for an hour a day without any change to my diet and the weight started falling off me and I started eating more so that I wasnt losing too much weight, an hour a day is a lot for most people though I suppose so diet is more important then, given how busy most peopels lifestyles are

    Yes but that would suggest your diet is OK (from a calorific POV at least).

    Whereas if you're eating 3.5k kcal a day, the odd jog or run won't prevent weight gain, it'll just stop some of it.

    It's not really about what you eat, more about the calorie intake on a daily basis.

    Now, it can be more complex than that - obviously 2k kcal of mostly protein/fat/complex or few carbs v 2k kcal of majority carb/low protein will make a major difference.

    But broadly speaking, if your calorie intake is somewhere near your maintainance, and you throw in some exercise, you will still have a relatively OK BMI, even if it's all crap.

    Doesn't mean it is necessarily a healthy diet, but you'll still look relatively OK.

    Fundementally, for 99% of people, it's about kcal in, and energy expended, regardless of how it's made up.


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    #563
    _Brian
    Registered Users Posts: 18,486 ✭✭✭✭_Brian


    TerrorFirmer wrote: »
    Yes but that would suggest your diet is OK (from a calorific POV at least).

    Whereas if you're eating 3.5k kcal a day, the odd jog or run won't prevent weight gain, it'll just stop some of it.

    It's not really about what you eat, more about the calorie intake on a daily basis.

    Now, it can be more complex than that - obviously 2k kcal of mostly protein/fat/complex or few carbs v 2k kcal of majority carb/low protein will make a major difference.

    But broadly speaking, if your calorie intake is somewhere near your maintainance, and you throw in some exercise, you will still have a relatively OK BMI, even if it's all crap.

    Doesn't mean it is necessarily a healthy diet, but you'll still look relatively OK.

    Fundementally, for 99% of people, it's about kcal in, and energy expended, regardless of how it's made up.

    This is it, for the 99%, but people love to muddie the waters pretending it’s genetics, bread, gluten, chlorine in the water or whatever fairytale they are into at the moment.

    Burn more energy that your eating and you will loose weight, the more the difference the more the weight loss, it’s not linear, there will be good weeks and bad weeks, there is no quick fix, no herbal tea or detox coffee magic drink.

    It takes effort, willpower and discipline, these are the areas people fall down on. There’s a whole business online built on this, selling the tea and coffee detox that “sheds the pounds with no effort”, it’s all nonsense and preying on people’s stupidity and laziness.


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    #564
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 17,728 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    _Brian wrote: »
    This is it, for the 99%, but people love to muddie the waters pretending it’s genetics, bread, gluten, chlorine in the water or whatever fairytale they are into at the moment. ......................
    It takes effort, willpower and discipline, these are the areas people fall down on. .................

    Indeed, the insatiable hunger thing applies to a minority of the 1% even, folk in here would have you believe every obese person is some sort of special case whereas the vast majoirty dont' want to make the effort as they don't want to lose the weight enough., for whatever reason.
    If you want to lose it, really want to, then you will.
    It's like anything.


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    #565
    Lollipops23
    Registered Users Posts: 5,420 ✭✭✭Lollipops23


    A girl I am acquainted with has been very big as long as I know her.

    She's constantly posting pics of workouts (big red sweaty face, so she's defo doing *some* workout) and diet dinners etc. Been doing this for about 3 years now.

    She's *maybe* lost a stone in this time.

    There's no way she's being honest, as the size she still is should be greatly diminished by now if she was doing all the things she claims to be.


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    #566
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 17,728 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    She's on the biscuits/sweets/takeaways/wine/other high calorie foods more than she's letting on I imagine :)


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    #567
    xi5yvm0owc1s2b
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,325 ✭✭✭xi5yvm0owc1s2b


    Lollipops23 wrote: »
    A girl I am acquainted with has been very big as long as I know her.

    She's constantly posting pics of workouts (big red sweaty face, so she's defo doing *some* workout) and diet dinners etc. Been doing this for about 3 years now.

    She's *maybe* lost a stone in this time.

    There's no way she's being honest, as the size she still is should be greatly diminished by now if she was doing all the things she claims to be.

    At that rate, she's losing less than half a pound per month.

    I suspect she's putting these images on social media to get praise/encouragement, but pictures of her late-night binges, etc., are not going online.


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    #568
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 17,728 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    To be fair at least she is losing weight :)


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    #569
    xi5yvm0owc1s2b
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,325 ✭✭✭xi5yvm0owc1s2b


    Augeo wrote: »
    To be fair at least she is losing weight :)

    Well, that's true. :) There's something to be said for going in the right direction, albeit slowly.


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    #570
    silverharp
    Registered Users Posts: 17,848 ✭✭✭✭silverharp


    _Brian wrote: »
    This is it, for the 99%, but people love to muddie the waters pretending it’s genetics, bread, gluten, chlorine in the water or whatever fairytale they are into at the moment.

    Burn more energy that your eating and you will loose weight, the more the difference the more the weight loss, it’s not linear, there will be good weeks and bad weeks, there is no quick fix, no herbal tea or detox coffee magic drink.

    It takes effort, willpower and discipline, these are the areas people fall down on. There’s a whole business online built on this, selling the tea and coffee detox that “sheds the pounds with no effort”, it’s all nonsense and preying on people’s stupidity and laziness.

    willpower is overrated :pac: Part of the problem is that people end up on unsustainable diets , so they end up either eating very bland and anaemic food or they never really let go of the cr@ppy food in their diet and they slip back into old ways.

    A belief in gender identity involves a level of faith as there is nothing tangible to prove its existence which, as something divorced from the physical body, is similar to the idea of a soul. - Colette Colfer



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    #571
    Lillyfae
    Registered Users Posts: 1,813 ✭✭✭Lillyfae


    Was getting the bus home from work yesterday, I live in the Benelux region, and an Irish couple in their 30s or so got on to go to the airport. They were easily 18 - 20 stone each, if not more. They couldn't fit on the normal seats, what a stark comparison to the natives- they knew it too. That's the worst thing, a person's self esteem and self worth must take an awful hit.


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