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More gender pay gap rubbish

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  • 18-02-2019 11:19am
    #1
    professore
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,857 ✭✭✭


    Top story on independent.ie... Male graduates paid 4k more than women... With zero explanations.

    Some 93pc of education graduates were working, followed by health and welfare (87pc), ICT (82pc) and engineering (82pc);
    Arts and humanities graduates had the lowest employment rate (63pc) and lowest average salaries at €24,728; they were among the highest percentages in further study (24pc);

    Is there any possibility that more women study humanities than men... Fields that are not in demand in the jobs market... Or are companies and government bodies so sexist they go out of their way and risk huge fines and bad publicity to pay women less? Hmmmm...

    Who is driving this narrative?


    https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/education/teachers-top-the-pay-league-for-new-graduates-but-gender-pay-gap-remains-37825469.html

    As an aside, these poor teachers earn more out of college than ANY OTHER TYPE OF GRADUATE!!!!! And they will be out on strike again looking for more since the nurses already got what they want. Crazy.


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    #2
    Red_Wake
    Registered Users Posts: 1,571 ✭✭✭Red_Wake


    I'm more interested in the gender thigh gap tbh.


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    #3
    Inspector Coptoor
    Registered Users Posts: 6,818 ✭✭✭Inspector Coptoor


    professore wrote: »


    As an aside, these poor teachers earn more out of college than ANY OTHER TYPE OF GRADUATE!!!!! And they will be out on strike again looking for more since the nurses already got what they want. Crazy.

    A complete joke of an article.

    You can’t compare a teacher to an Arts graduate.

    Some Teachers ARE Arts graduates who have then gone on to do a Masters in Education at a cost of €12k to become teachers.
    A basic Arts degree is a 3 year level 8 degree. Teachers now spend either 5 or 6 years in Higher Education depending on their subjects.

    Teachers are double graduates with a level 8 and a Level 9 degree.

    This article says teacher graduates have the highest starting salary at €38.7k but then goes on to say the MEDIAN salary for a Masters graduate is €40.8k.

    All recent teacher graduates HAVE a masters.

    Pathetic reporting.
    Awful interpretation of data.

    Lies, damned lies and statistics.


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    #4
    KungPao
    Registered Users Posts: 4,781 ✭✭✭KungPao


    The lovely girls should just be appreciative that they are allowed to work.


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    #5
    Hedgelayer
    Registered Users Posts: 530 ✭✭✭Hedgelayer


    Inspector Coptoor wrote: »
    A complete joke of an article.

    You can’t compare a teacher to an Arts graduate.

    Some Teachers ARE Arts graduates who have then gone on to do a Masters in Education at a cost of €12k to become teachers.
    A basic Arts degree is a 3 year level 8 degree. Teachers now spend either 5 or 6 years in Higher Education depending on their subjects.

    Teachers are double graduates with a level 8 and a Level 9 degree.

    This article says teacher graduates have the highest starting salary at €38.7k but then goes on to say the MEDIAN salary for a Masters graduate is €40.8k.

    All recent teacher graduates HAVE a masters.

    Pathetic reporting.
    Awful interpretation of data.

    Lies, damned lies and statistics.

    Thats only the tip of the iceberg with lies, gaslighting manipulation and more lies.

    Sometimes when I listen to political interviews on the radio, you can actually hear them lying through their teeth.

    Denying they said so and so, but there's evidence of them lying...

    Is it a civilization of liar's were living in ?


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    #6
    Ray Palmer
    Registered Users Posts: 8,364 ✭✭✭Ray Palmer


    The gender pay gap is real, it just doesn't mean what most people think. There is a gap in what women get paid compared to men. The problem is it is because they work less hours and lower paying work. Equal pay for equal work is not an issue.


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    #7
    aloneforever99
    Registered Users Posts: 179 ✭✭aloneforever99


    Ray Palmer wrote: »
    Equal pay for equal work is not an issue.

    I must have imagined that whole Micheline Sheehy Skeffington case so. And Sharon Ni Bheolain.


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    #8
    Mr. Incognito
    Registered Users Posts: 9,798 ✭✭✭Mr. Incognito


    FACT:

    It is illegal to pay men and women in the same job doing equal work different rates of pay.



    The rest is just gob****es using statistics to push agendas.


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    #9
    silverharp
    Registered Users Posts: 17,849 ✭✭✭✭silverharp


    Its amusing that all these disgruntled headlines are generated by “people” that were either to lazy or not talented enough to go into STEM fields themselves.

    A belief in gender identity involves a level of faith as there is nothing tangible to prove its existence which, as something divorced from the physical body, is similar to the idea of a soul. - Colette Colfer



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    #10
    aloneforever99
    Registered Users Posts: 179 ✭✭aloneforever99


    Mr. Incognito wrote: »
    FACT:

    It is illegal to pay men and women in the same job doing equal work different rates of pay.



    The rest is just gob****es using statistics to push agendas.

    Illegal stuff happens, though.


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    #11
    Franz Von Peppercorn
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,070 ✭✭✭Franz Von Peppercorn


    professore wrote: »
    Top story on independent.ie... Male graduates paid 4k more than women... With zero explanations.




    Is there any possibility that more women study humanities than men... Fields that are not in demand in the jobs market... Or are companies and government bodies so sexist they go out of their way and risk huge fines and bad publicity to pay women less? Hmmmm...

    Who is driving this narrative?


    https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/education/teachers-top-the-pay-league-for-new-graduates-but-gender-pay-gap-remains-37825469.html

    As an aside, these poor teachers earn more out of college than ANY OTHER TYPE OF GRADUATE!!!!! And they will be out on strike again looking for more since the nurses already got what they want. Crazy.

    Those unemployment rates are ridiculously high, people are making themselves more unemployable by going to university.


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    #12
    Ray Palmer
    Registered Users Posts: 8,364 ✭✭✭Ray Palmer


    aloneforever99 wrote: »
    Ray Palmer wrote: »
    Equal pay for equal work is not an issue.

    I must have imagined that whole Micheline Sheehy Skeffington case so. And Sharon Ni Bheolain.
    You imagined that experience and loyalty doesn't warrant a higher wage. They were working there less than their male colleagues. Showbiz jobs are very different. Marlon Brando got paid more for his role in Superman I than Christopher Reeves got.

    Where I work there are several women who work part time and not one man. They shouldn't be paid the same amount as they work less hours. Even ignoring the contracted hours these women never do any overtime. They can't be promoted as it would require working full time hours and commitment to do overtime when needed. They have made a choice to do this. When they eventually start doing full time hours they are not on equal footing to somebody who worked full time over the same time.


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    #13
    aloneforever99
    Registered Users Posts: 179 ✭✭aloneforever99


    Ray Palmer wrote: »
    You imagined that experience and loyalty doesn't warrant a higher wage. They were working there less than their male colleagues. Showbiz jobs are very different. Marlon Brando got paid more for his role in Superman I than Christopher Reeves got.

    Since Marlon Brando and Christopher Reeves aren't paid by the TV licence, that's not comparable.

    People said women get paid the same for doing the same work. Sharon Ni Bheolain does the same work as Brian Dobson and gets paid considerably less. That's a fact.

    And you're just wrong about Sheehy-Skeffington and her colleagues, as the court case proved beyond doubt.

    I can readily admit that in many cases women are paid less because they work fewer hours or took a career break, or have careers in less lucrative fields to begin with.

    Can you admit that in some cases women are paid less due to sexism? Or are you honestly telling me this never, ever happens?


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    #14
    kneemos
    Registered Users Posts: 20,412 ✭✭✭✭kneemos


    aloneforever99 wrote: »
    I must have imagined that whole Micheline Sheehy Skeffington case so. And Sharon Ni Bheolain.


    RTE solved the problem by getting rid of all the men.


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    #15
    Ush1
    Registered Users Posts: 11,465 ✭✭✭✭Ush1


    aloneforever99 wrote: »
    Can you admit that in some cases women are paid less due to sexism? Or are you honestly telling me this never, ever happens?

    Can you admit the inverse?

    Can you admit that tall people get paid more than small people due to sizism?
    Can you admit thinner people get paid more than overweight due to body facism?


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    #16
    aloneforever99
    Registered Users Posts: 179 ✭✭aloneforever99


    Ush1 wrote: »
    Can you admit the inverse?

    Can you admit that tall people get paid more than small people due to sizism?
    Can you admit thinner people get paid more than overweight due to body facism?

    I'll answer yours if you answer mine.


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    #17
    Ush1
    Registered Users Posts: 11,465 ✭✭✭✭Ush1


    aloneforever99 wrote: »
    I'll answer yours if you answer mine.

    Yes, people discriminate constantly in all facets of life and business for endless numbers of reasons.


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    #18
    aloneforever99
    Registered Users Posts: 179 ✭✭aloneforever99


    Ush1 wrote: »
    Yes, people discriminate constantly in all facets of life and business for endless numbers of reasons.

    Right. So we are agreed that gender discrimination is a thing, and that for a variety of reasons, some to do with discrimination and some to do with other factors, a gender pay gap exists.


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    #19
    Ush1
    Registered Users Posts: 11,465 ✭✭✭✭Ush1


    aloneforever99 wrote: »
    Right. So we are agreed that gender discrimination is a thing, and that for a variety of reasons, some to do with discrimination and some to do with other factors, a gender pay gap exists.

    No it's ALL discrimination actually. Same reason why lots of men doing the same job don't get paid the same.


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    #20
    aloneforever99
    Registered Users Posts: 179 ✭✭aloneforever99


    Ush1 wrote: »
    No it's ALL discrimination actually. Same reason why lots of men doing the same job don't get paid the same.

    Okay, are you able to acknowledge that in some cases companies choose to pay women less or offer them fewer opportunities for advancement specifically because they are women?


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    #21
    Ush1
    Registered Users Posts: 11,465 ✭✭✭✭Ush1


    aloneforever99 wrote: »
    Okay, are you able to acknowledge that in some cases companies choose to pay women less or offer them fewer opportunities for advancement specifically because they are women?

    I answered you, you didn't answer me.


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    #22
    kneemos
    Registered Users Posts: 20,412 ✭✭✭✭kneemos


    aloneforever99 wrote: »
    Right. So we are agreed that gender discrimination is a thing, and that for a variety of reasons, some to do with discrimination and some to do with other factors, a gender pay gap exists.


    He didn't say that at all.

    My God that's one of the biggest free standing leaps I've ever seen.


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    #23
    aloneforever99
    Registered Users Posts: 179 ✭✭aloneforever99


    Ush1 wrote: »
    I answered you, you didn't answer me.

    You didn't really. You answered the question "Does discrimination exist?" which isn't actually what I asked.

    My question, once again, is specifically to do with gender discrimination. Can you acknowledge that it exists?

    To answer your question, yes, I can freely acknowledge that other forms of discrimination also exist.


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    #24
    Ush1
    Registered Users Posts: 11,465 ✭✭✭✭Ush1


    aloneforever99 wrote: »
    You didn't really. You answered the question "Does discrimination exist?" which isn't actually what I asked.

    My question, once again, is specifically to do with gender discrimination. Can you acknowledge that it exists?

    To answer your question, yes, I can freely acknowledge that other forms of discrimination also exist.

    Yes of course it exists. For men and women and trans and any number of new genders that people dream up. Agreed?


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    #25
    Wanderer2010
    Registered Users Posts: 6,688 ✭✭✭Wanderer2010


    In my experience, women who shout the loudest about demanding pay equality at work do the least amount of work. Plus the fact that women are the ones on maternity leave. A huge number of women after having their first kid get tired of working and opt for 3 day weeks, job sharing etc and more sick leave. Which does not equal the same hours or money as someone full time.

    Im not saying all women do this but a huge amount do, so they cant expect the same pay.


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    #26
    aloneforever99
    Registered Users Posts: 179 ✭✭aloneforever99


    kneemos wrote: »
    He didn't say that at all.

    My God that's one of the biggest free standing leaps I've ever seen.

    Yeah, I was being kind of tongue-in-cheek there, but it's the logical conclusion.

    I have no issue with anyone saying that

    - many women choose less lucrative fields than men
    - many women take career breaks to have children
    - many women work fewer hours than men

    As long as they can also acknowledge that many women face certain disadvantages despite not doing any of the above simply because they are women.

    Sexism is a thing, and denying its existence does not change that.


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    #27
    Sky King
    Registered Users Posts: 4,431 ✭✭✭Sky King


    Red_Wake wrote: »
    I'm more interested in the gender thigh gap tbh.

    Yeah? Personally i am interested in the gander pay gap.

    What's good for the goose....


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    #28
    Diceicle
    Registered Users Posts: 1,799 ✭✭✭Diceicle


    aloneforever99 wrote: »
    Can you admit that in some cases women are paid less due to sexism? Or are you honestly telling me this never, ever happens?

    I would say sexism is one factor in certain cases of pay disparity. Sexism is also a factor in the current push for women replacing male presenters wherever possible - 9 o'clock news, Late debate, BBC question time etc etc


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    #29
    xi5yvm0owc1s2b
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,325 ✭✭✭xi5yvm0owc1s2b


    aloneforever99 wrote: »
    Sharon Ni Bheolain does the same work as Brian Dobson and gets paid considerably less. That's a fact.

    Dobson is 11 years older than Ní Bheoláin. He has significantly more broadcasting experience and a longer tenure at RTE. So he earns a higher salary. No surprises there.

    She's still pulling in a very comfortable six-figure salary for reading the news on TV.


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    #30
    aloneforever99
    Registered Users Posts: 179 ✭✭aloneforever99


    Alondra Helpless Dream wrote: »
    Dobson is 11 years older than Ní Bheoláin. He has significantly more broadcasting experience and a longer tenure at RTE. So he earns a higher salary. No surprises there.

    See this is it.

    People say there's no pay gap, that it's a MYTH, that women who do the same work get the same pay.

    Then you point out a case where that's very clearly not the case, and people go into explanation mode as to why the pay gap - that didn't exist a minute ago - exists and is actually justified.


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    #31
    Mr.H
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,861 ✭✭✭Mr.H


    Alondra Helpless Dream wrote:
    She's still pulling in a very comfortable six-figure salary for reading the news on TV.


    If a man was hired in the morning with less experience than her, he would be on less money. Of course thats right.


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