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Constitutionality of Joint Assessment

  • 15-02-2019 11:27AM
    #1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,420 ✭✭✭


    Currently, under the joint assessment scheme, one spouse may transfer a portion of their credits and tax band to their spouse. For the purpose of simplicity we'll take the example of a man earning 55k and his wife earning 15K social welfare. We'll assume the standard rate band is 35K and the max transferable is 10K. This means the man can earn 45K before he moves to the higher tax band and the woman earns and the woman earns 15K of her 25K limit. The remainder of her 10K allowance is lost. It would seem to make more financial sense for the woman to get a job to bring her earnings up to 25k and the man were to reduce his earnings to 45K.

    Under 41.2.2 of the Constitution it states "The State shall, therefore, endeavour to ensure that mothers shall not be obliged by economic necessity to engage in labour to the neglect of their duties in the home."

    Would the joint assessment policy not be contrary to this? It effectively requires the woman to enter the labour force in order to prevent the family paying additional tax.


Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,798 ✭✭✭Mr. Incognito


    Its a credit against tax paid.

    It is not repayable.

    It is not "lost" it is simply not activated.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,420 ✭✭✭MrFresh


    Well if you take the couple as a whole it is lost. That was the word used by the person in Revenue when I spoke to them. That and "it's ash". But that's just semantics anyway. The fact still remains that it would be more tax efficient for the woman to enter the labour force in place of her husband for a period of time equal to €10,000 in additional gross pay.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,262 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    The tax credit provides an incentive for the woman to work in that scenario, it does not provide an obligation.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,420 ✭✭✭MrFresh


    The tax credit provides an incentive for the woman to work in that scenario, it does not provide an obligation.

    Is that not subjective? Would it not depend on the individual couples financial situation?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,262 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    MrFresh wrote: »
    Is that not subjective? Would it not depend on the individual couples financial situation?


    at the very worst any married couple would be receiving social welfare payments so the woman has no obligation to work.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,420 ✭✭✭MrFresh


    at the very worst any married couple would be receiving social welfare payments so the woman has no obligation to work.

    Again, that would be fairly subjective wouldn't it? I'm not sure if you are aware of social welfare rates but they aren't that enriching.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,262 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    MrFresh wrote: »
    Again, that would be fairly subjective wouldn't it? I'm not sure if you are aware of social welfare rates but they aren't that enriching.


    They are sufficient to live on. The bottom line is that the tax credit system does not place an OBLIGATION on a woman to work outside the home.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 28,401 ✭✭✭✭Peregrinus


    It has to be admitted that the point of making tax credits only partly transferrable (instead of fully transferrable) was, explicitly, to incentivise women to enter the workforce at a greater rate than they were doing at the time. As has been pointed out it's an incentive, not an obligation, and there's a difference between being better off/more tax-efficient as a result of entering the workforce, and being "obliged by economic necessity" to enter the workforce. I doubt that a constitutional challenge on this ground would succeed.

    Still, there's an important issue of social policy here. On the one hand, you've got more and more couples where both work. On the other, you have an ever-growing population of elderly and frail people. The high rate of workforce participation undercuts the informal support mechanism that used to operate for older people, at a time when there is more and more need for support. The result must be either (a) more and more older people living in poverty/in danger, or (b) a substantial increase in formal support mechanism, largely paid for by the state, or (c) a bit of both. And I don't think we have got to grips with this yet.

    Obviously, you can't say that it's women's duty to look after the frail elderly for no pay. But the point is that giving a woman a fully transferrable tax credit maximises her freedom in this regard. Making it only partly transferrable skews her choice towards formal work, and we need to accept the implications of that for the unpaid but social valuable work that she might otherwise do.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 937 ✭✭✭Phileas Frog


    You should take a case OP, by the time it's heard of course that paragraph will no longer be in the Constitution


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,968 ✭✭✭✭Mrs OBumble


    at the very worst any married couple would be receiving social welfare payments so the woman has no obligation to work.

    I'm pretty sure that the welfare payments they get would require both of the adults to be looking and available for work.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,262 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    I'm pretty sure that the welfare payments they get would require both of the adults to be looking and available for work.

    So you are saying that social welfare is unconstitutional? Interesting position to take.


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