Calving 2019 - Advice and Help thread

Castlekeeper · 03-02-2019 07:52PM

greysides wrote: »

Large calf... tears, bruising, devitalised tissue, possibility of retained cleaning in part or complete. Trying to head off metritis, endometritis, toxaemia, infertility.

I take it you're a vet and if so
Is it best practice to use antibiotics in anticipation or pre infection?
We would alwaus have been advised otherwise but these things are always being updated.

blackdog1 · 03-02-2019 08:20PM

L1985 wrote:

I really hope I'm not jinxing myself here but this is the first year we have been using oats to the in calf cows every day and it seems to be making some difference. Last four calving were done in an hour with th calf up and drinking before I even knew she had starting calving. Decent sized calves as well and they are full of beans which is good for Charolais!! Had 5 out of 16 in the spring calving calf in the last 24 hours and only two calving pens! It felt like every time I looked there was another new calf standing there!!

I've been feeding oats and barley for years with cal mag in it and it's fantastic. You get nice long calves and full of vitality. Super feed oats. It's different to other feeds because it floats in the stomach. Also we give cows a 2 buckets of warm water after calving which is another thing I find great.

L1985 · 03-02-2019 09:36PM

blackdog1 wrote: »

I've been feeding oats and barley for years with cal mag in it and it's fantastic. You get nice long calves and full of vitality. Super feed oats. It's different to other feeds because it floats in the stomach. Also we give cows a 2 buckets of warm water after calving which is another thing I find great.

Why the warm water?ive never heard of that!

greysides · 03-02-2019 10:10PM

Castlekeeper wrote: »

Is it best practice to use antibiotics in anticipation or pre infection?
We would alwaus have been advised otherwise but these things are always being updated.

It's a case of probabilities. My suggestions were graduated from mild to severe cases.

jd06 · 03-02-2019 11:05PM

blackdog1 wrote: »

I've been feeding oats and barley for years with cal mag in it and it's fantastic. You get nice long calves and full of vitality. Super feed oats. It's different to other feeds because it floats in the stomach. Also we give cows a 2 buckets of warm water after calving which is another thing I find great.

Hi just wondering how soon before calving do you introduce oats,
Is it rolled oats
Would the oats effect the size of the calf
Tia

Base price · 03-02-2019 11:57PM

L1985 wrote: »

Why the warm water?ive never heard of that!

We always gave cows warm water to drink after calving in Winter or a cold Spring. I presume it has to do with the cow drinking more water than normal after calving and her system not getting shocked with cold (ice) water. After heifers calving or cows after a hard/difficult calving I used to offer them a warm bran mash for two or three feeds with epsom salts added if she was bound up/constipated.

High bike · 04-02-2019 10:59AM

Been using the oats for a couple of yrs too and find em a great job, they don't swell the calf and give the cow plenty energy

L1985 · 04-02-2019 12:52PM

jd06 wrote: »

Hi just wondering how soon before calving do you introduce oats,
Is it rolled oats
Would the oats effect the size of the calf
Tia

Someone more scientific then me can prob anwser better but we have been giving them oats since the middle of November all due between Jan and March. Give hay for 3days then a bale of silage on the fourth. Seems to be working well.
I'll be putting electricity in that shed next year so must remember about the warm water for the cow -it's a good idea.

grassroot1 · 04-02-2019 03:24PM

blackdog1 wrote:

I've been feeding oats and barley for years with cal mag in it and it's fantastic. You get nice long calves and full of vitality. Super feed oats. It's different to other feeds because it floats in the stomach. Also we give cows a 2 buckets of warm water after calving which is another thing I find great.

You are hardly feeding cal mag pre calving?

blackdog1 · 04-02-2019 04:18PM

grassroot1 wrote: »

You are hardly feeding cal mag pre calving?

I most certainly am. start feeding it with the barley oat mix a month from calving. i haven't used a bottle of calcium in years. Cows are quick to calve and generally quick to clean. On the oats , I use a barley oats mix 50/50 and the calves are nice and long but the cows and heifers are well able to calve them. i also use easy calving bulls for heifers to be extra cautious.

wiggy123 · 04-02-2019 04:24PM

started same here-few weeks back-cows getting oats/barley mix.. not huge pile.. are outside anyway-on hay at present... what I find could be key-is females need exercise like... has to help when close to calving,etc...

charolais0153 · 04-02-2019 05:02PM

Bcs is thr most importamt thing in my opinion. Feed a diet just to maintain that then.

grassroot1 · 04-02-2019 07:21PM

blackdog1 wrote:

I most certainly am. start feeding it with the barley oat mix a month from calving. i haven't used a bottle of calcium in years. Cows are quick to calve and generally quick to clean. On the oats , I use a barley oats mix 50/50 and the calves are nice and long but the cows and heifers are well able to calve them. i also use easy calving bulls for heifers to be extra cautious.

Cal mag is magnesium oxide it is used to prevent grass tetany.
It contains no calcium

greysides · 04-02-2019 08:03PM

grassroot1 wrote: »

Cal mag is magnesium oxide it is used to prevent grass tetany.
It contains no calcium

Magnesium is needed for the body to use calcium. Calcium can't be given recalving easily without causing problems but giving Magnesium works.

grassroot1 · 04-02-2019 08:06PM

greysides wrote:

Magnesium is needed for the body to use calcium. Calcium can't be given recalving easily without causing problems but giving Magnesium works.

I stand corrected

dar31 · 04-02-2019 08:06PM

grassroot1 wrote: »

Cal mag is magnesium oxide it is used to prevent grass tetany.
It contains no calcium

Magnesium is probably one of the most important pre calving minerals along with iodine and selenium
Cal mag flake is the most efficient form but can be a bit unpalatible no problem if using a feeder or in water.

The Rabbi · 05-02-2019 01:40AM

wiggy123 wrote: »

started same here-few weeks back-cows getting oats/barley mix.. not huge pile.. are outside anyway-on hay at present... what I find could be key-is females need exercise like... has to help when close to calving,etc...

A neighbour always said "feed them hay at the top of the field and water them down the bottom" it seemed to work for him.

Injuryprone · 05-02-2019 02:48PM

First calf landed here this morning. This is her 9th calf and they've all been female. I picked up on the trend after about the fifth one as she was the first xbred to come inside the gate here and you'd pick out most of her offspring a mile away. Whatever genes she has wouldn't half put pay to the sexed semen industry!
Unfortunately there won't be a 10th, however much I'd like to see how far the run will keep going. Her feet are really letting her down, by right she should have gone last year. She's seen the hoofparer so many times, she'd almost roll onto her side herself when he pulls into the yard!

whelan2 · 05-02-2019 06:31PM

First dead calf this evening. Both legs bent back only head coming. Big fr bull. Set of twins earlier. Thank fook this day is nearly over

Mooooo · 06-02-2019 12:36PM

If a calf drinks two litres from the bottle would ye tube them more or leave them off?

Morris Moss · 06-02-2019 01:58PM

Mooooo wrote: »

If a calf drinks two litres from the bottle would ye tube them more or leave them off?

Personally I'd leave them off, 2 litres is enough for a first feed.

Dunedin · 06-02-2019 02:02PM

Mooooo wrote: »

If a calf drinks two litres from the bottle would ye tube them more or leave them off?

Let them off at that stage. That’ll leave them safe and they’ll motor to the cow thereafter- but just keep an eye that they are sucking as the odd one doesn’t unfortunately

Buford T. Justice XIX · 06-02-2019 02:51PM

Mooooo wrote: »

If a calf drinks two litres from the bottle would ye tube them more or leave them off?

I'd tube the 3rd litre into him. 3 litres within 2 hours of the first milking is kind of the minimum amount recommended.

Westernrock · 06-02-2019 06:29PM

Buford T. Justice V wrote: »

I'd tube the 3rd litre into him. 3 litres within 2 hours of the first milking is kind of the minimum amount recommended.

It depends if it’s dairy colostrum or suckler colostrum, 2L of thick colostrum from a suckler could contain more antibodies than 3L from a high yielding dairy cow. If a suckler calf gets 2L of good colostrum I wouldn’t be killing myself to get more into them?

Buford T. Justice XIX · 06-02-2019 06:43PM

Westernrock wrote: »

It depends if it’s dairy colostrum or suckler colostrum, 2L of thick colostrum from a suckler could contain more antibodies than 3L from a high yielding dairy cow. If a suckler calf gets 2L of good colostrum I wouldn’t be killing myself to get more into them?

Maybe, a lot would depend on timing and the size of the calf too. Suckler calves would generally be bigger than dairy calves and would need more colostrum and the longer the calf is between birth to getting its first feed, the less colostrum that's going to be absorbed.

We'd be giving over 3L to freshly dropped calves where we can and they are way less work than calves that get less than 3L. And the sucklers colostrum might be thicker but a lot of that would be extra fat and protein rather than antibodies?

RedPeppers · 06-02-2019 08:17PM

Mooooo wrote: »

If a calf drinks two litres from the bottle would ye tube them more or leave them off?

Would always tube the rest, its the one feed i make sure of, after that if they don't take the full 3l i don't push them.

Westernrock · 06-02-2019 08:29PM

Buford T. Justice V wrote: »

Maybe, a lot would depend on timing and the size of the calf too. Suckler calves would generally be bigger than dairy calves and would need more colostrum and the longer the calf is between birth to getting its first feed, the less colostrum that's going to be absorbed.

We'd be giving over 3L to freshly dropped calves where we can and they are way less work than calves that get less than 3L. And the sucklers colostrum might be thicker but a lot of that would be extra fat and protein rather than antibodies?

It would be higher in everything (higher dm as such) it’s more that the dairy cow has “diluted” colostrum, antibodies are protein essentially so colostrum with higher protein has higher levels of antibodies. I agree though that 3L would be the minimum for dairy calves. Have some lads tube feeding 4L to every calf and find it works for them.

Buford T. Justice XIX · 06-02-2019 08:41PM

Westernrock wrote: »

It would be higher in everything (higher dm as such) it’s more that the dairy cow has “diluted” colostrum, antibodies are protein essentially so colostrum with higher protein has higher levels of antibodies. I agree though that 3L would be the minimum for dairy calves. Have some lads tube feeding 4L to every calf and find it works for them.

I'd milk and tube the sucklers here as well, find it works well and few problems for them calves afterwards. Having a milking machine makes it a bit easier to get the milk, though:pac:

visatorro · 06-02-2019 08:54PM

Buford T. Justice V wrote: »

Westernrock wrote: »

It would be higher in everything (higher dm as such) it’s more that the dairy cow has “diluted” colostrum, antibodies are protein essentially so colostrum with higher protein has higher levels of antibodies. I agree though that 3L would be the minimum for dairy calves. Have some lads tube feeding 4L to every calf and find it works for them.

I'd milk and tube the sucklers here as well, find it works well and few problems for them calves afterwards. Having a milking machine makes it a bit easier to get the milk, though:pac:

Sucklers aswell. Christ have you not enough to be at?!!

Buford T. Justice XIX · 06-02-2019 08:59PM

visatorro wrote: »

Sucklers aswell. Christ have you not enough to be at?!!

It's herd health, the last few animals I bought brought in loads of diseases with them, BVD, IBR, PI3 etc etc. I got sick of the vet bills and bought a Poly cow and calf so I'd always have a beef bull coming in or sell as needed.

They calve, milked, tubed, tagged and let off with the milkers. Feck all work with them really.

Calving 2019 - Advice and Help thread

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