Bought second hand car now find out was previously stolen.

sailing · 28-01-2019 10:50AM #1

Hi,
I bought a Range Rover Sport (08) jeep for my wife on Friday, having traded in her car against it. The history check (SIMI check) done by the dealer in front of me came back as all clear.

I’ve just been informed by a friend (garda) that the jeep had previously been stolen in 2010 from Wicklow and was eventually found in the UK in 2011. It waa subsequently repatriated by AXA in 2011.
It was then apparently in the possession of a well known criminal who had a murder investigation against him and was involved in criminal dealings.

It was last checked only over a week ago as part of a drugs investigation.

I was completely unaware of any of this when purchasing from the reputable dealer. He himself says he wasn’t either. It was only traded into him a week ago by a respectable female business owner.

I’m not at all happy that my wife will now be driving this car with our one year old son subject to its past and ongoing history.

Where would I stand on this?

Mr. Incognito · 28-01-2019 11:02AM

Is your garda friend prepared to come to court and give evidence to that effect?

3DataModem · 28-01-2019 11:14AM

A stolen car can pass a SIMI check if it is no longer "at large" i.e. if it has been reclaimed by the insurance company who paid out the theft claim, and then sold on. The fact that the car was repatriated to Ireland by AXA suggests this may be the case. So the car is no longer 'stolen goods' per se.

If this is the case, I don't think you have a case against the person who sold the car. Plenty of cars (and houses, etc) are out there with chequered history.

Your issue seems to be that it is recognizable to people who knew the previous owner and that puts your family at risk.

A change of colour could help. A change of reg of course would help, but the only circumstances you can get a car registration changed in Ireland is if it is seized and sold by CAB. Perhaps they might make an exception in your case as the history is so recent and the issue is similar.

The only other option if you are genuinely worried, is to sell it. Probably cheaper to sell it now then pay the cost of an expensive respray/rereg.

jimmycrackcorm · 28-01-2019 11:19AM

sailing wrote:

Where would I stand on this?

On the door sills when you get in.

Seriously, what grounds do you think you have?

sailing · 28-01-2019 11:23AM

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

On the door sills when you get in.

Seriously, what grounds do you think you have?

On the grounds that it’s part of a drugs investigation as of last week!

lawred2 · 28-01-2019 11:25AM

Can you change the reg?

Fann Linn · 28-01-2019 11:29AM

You're right to be worried. These gougers don't bother with change of ownership forms etc. Your wife and kid will be in a car which has 'connections'.
I'd be passing it on.

Effects · 28-01-2019 11:30AM

sailing wrote: »

On the grounds that it’s part of a drugs investigation as of last week!

What was the issue with the drugs investigation?
If it was sold legally by a criminal, and then bought by you, then its not associated with criminality anymore.

Can't your mate point you in the direction of how you can get details of it being sold on, and away from criminality, into the pulse system.

sailing · 28-01-2019 11:32AM

Can't your mate point you in the direction of how you can get details of it being sold on, and away from criminality, into the pulse system.[/quote]

I’m going to pop down to the local Garda station and get some advice on that from them.

kirving · 28-01-2019 11:41AM

Effects wrote: »

What was the issue with the drugs investigation?
If it was sold legally by a criminal, and then bought by you, then its not associated with criminality anymore.

From a legal perspective maybe not, but given the recent violence, I wouldn't feel particularly safe driving around it what is probably a well know car to local criminals.

KaneToad · 28-01-2019 11:44AM

Mr. Incognito wrote: »

Is your garda friend prepared to come to court and give evidence to that effect?

Unlikely. He/she would be in a lot of trouble for unauthorised access of data.

sailing · 28-01-2019 11:44AM

Kevin Irving wrote: »

From a legal perspective maybe not, but given the recent violence, I wouldn't feel particularly safe driving around it what is probably a well know car to local criminals.

I have just done an independent check via one of the paid car checking sites and a red flag has appeared on it. The SIMI check is clear which the dealer performed in front of me but this one isn’t.

jimmycrackcorm · 28-01-2019 11:45AM

sailing wrote:

On the grounds that itâ€™s part of a drugs investigation as of last week!

Does that fall under the sale of goods?

sailing · 28-01-2019 11:47AM

Mr. Incognito wrote: »

Is your garda friend prepared to come to court and give evidence to that effect?

Of course not, they only gave an outline of the history. It was a roadside stop

Auguste Comte · 28-01-2019 11:48AM

Did you ask the dealer "has this car ever been crashed stolen or subject to an insurance claim"?

ohnonotgmail · 28-01-2019 11:56AM

sailing wrote: »

I have just done an independent check via one of the paid car checking sites and a red flag has appeared on it. The SIMI check is clear which the dealer performed in front of me but this one isn’t.

a red flag for what?

brian_t · 28-01-2019 12:20PM

If the OP tries to sell the car will they be telling potential buyers that the reason they are selling is that the jeep was previously owned by a well-known drug dealing criminal.

After all the OP is complaining that they were not told this information.

LionelNashe · 28-01-2019 12:38PM

sailing wrote: »

...

It was last checked only over a week ago as part of a drugs investigation.

...

What do you mean it was last checked a week ago? It was pulled over, or somebody looked it up in Pulse, or what?

sailing · 28-01-2019 01:28PM

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

a red flag for what?

We have a condition alert recorded against this vehicle. This means that Motorcheck has discovered some additional information regarding the condition of the vehicle.
A condition alert means that the vehicle may have been previously damaged in an accident, flood damaged, stolen, used as a garda vehicle, or the subject of an insurance write-off.

godtabh · 28-01-2019 04:19PM

sailing wrote: »

We have a condition alert recorded against this vehicle. This means that Motorcheck has discovered some additional information regarding the condition of the vehicle.
A condition alert means that the vehicle may have been previously damaged in an accident, flood damaged, stolen, used as a garda vehicle, or the subject of an insurance write-off.

Well you know it was stolen.

Given that you did a SIMI check and not a Motorcheck is the issue not with SIMI an not the dealer?

Should you have done an independent check?

ohnonotgmail · 28-01-2019 04:23PM

sailing wrote: »

We have a condition alert recorded against this vehicle. This means that Motorcheck has discovered some additional information regarding the condition of the vehicle.
A condition alert means that the vehicle may have been previously damaged in an accident, flood damaged, stolen, used as a garda vehicle, or the subject of an insurance write-off.

Well that information is so broad as to be nearly useless. I dont know what kind of comeback you think you have. There is no way for the dealer to know that the car is known to the gardai.

Gravelly · 28-01-2019 04:25PM

Not much good to you now, but always do a motorcheck yourself.

The only way you will have comeback is by the goodwill of the dealer, I doubt you have any legal standing to force him to take it back.

28-01-2019 04:32PM

I relation owned a Porche which previously belonged to an IRA Member. He regularly got stopped by the Guards, even do it was several years before. It was nothing which a quick chat did not sort out. Young lad driving a Porche syndrome was what caused the guards to lookup the reg in the first place. One would assume the Guards IT systems have moved on with the times...

sailing · 28-01-2019 04:38PM

To be fair I don’t believe there was anything untoward by the dealer. They were unaware of anything.
The car has been confirmed as having a very chequered past, confirmed by the Gardai this afternoon.

I’m happy though that it’s not going to affect the day to day running of it.

Thanks for the replies.

CiniO · 28-01-2019 04:48PM

Is the car characteristic in any way and unusual, or is it only registration number that links this car to its past?

coylemj · 28-01-2019 05:01PM

The issue here is this: even if the dealer knows 100% of the history of the car, is he obliged to disclose everything to a prospective buyer? There has to be a limit to the level of detail which a buyer can reasonably expect to be appraised of. The criminal past of a previous owner is not one of them as far as I'm concerned.

And even if it was stolen in the past, who's to say that the thief didn't drive it extremely carefully for fear of attracting the attention of the local (UK) constabulary. I think it's unreasonable to expect a dealer to tell you that it was stolen back in 2010.

If your car was stolen, recovered undamaged and later you go to sell it, would you tell a prospective buyer that it had been stolen eight years ago?

sailing · 28-01-2019 05:59PM

coylemj wrote: »

The issue here is this: even if the dealer knows 100% of the history of the car, is he obliged to disclose everything to a prospective buyer? There has to be a limit to the level of detail which a buyer can reasonably expect to be appraised of. The criminal past of a previous owner is not one of them as far as I'm concerned.

And even if it was stolen in the past, who's to say that the thief didn't drive it extremely carefully for fear of attracting the attention of the local (UK) constabulary. I think it's unreasonable to expect a dealer to tell you that it was stolen back in 2010.

If your car was stolen, recovered undamaged and later you go to sell it, would you tell a prospective buyer that it had been stolen eight years ago?

I found out it had a full engine change after recovery from the UK.

drunkmonkey · 28-01-2019 06:53PM

No harm it got a new engine, it was a long time ago, about 1.5million cars stolen since, what happened so long ago has no effect on the value now.

Your not meant to know the information your buddy told you, that's something to ask before hand not after. There's nobody coming after the car don't worry.

If it was worth stealing it probably a nice bus enjoy it.

Atlantic Dawn · 28-01-2019 07:09PM

Would it not have raised a strong red flag with the dealer ownership had recently changed to a 'female businesswoman' yes she is changing it so quickly?

I'd be inclined to seek a refund myself.

Widdensushi · 28-01-2019 07:10PM

sailing wrote: »

I found out it had a full engine change after recovery from the UK.

Surely that is a positive

Rows Grower · 28-01-2019 07:11PM

sailing wrote: »

I found out it had a full engine change after recovery from the UK.

How much would you be willing to accept for this vehicle?

I might be interested if the price is right.

Bought second hand car now find out was previously stolen.

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