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Australian Open 2019

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Comments

  • #482
    dominatinMC
    Registered Users Posts: 2,850 ✭✭✭dominatinMC


    walshb wrote: »
    You would have to surely think Nole can beat him? Has beaten him twice before at RG I believe...Nadal is not at his best...Nole is playing better tennis.
    Beaten him once in 16. At the moment I have Djokovic as fav due to him being in Nadals head. Will be interesting to see Nadals form going forward, and if he can do anything to turn the H2H around. If he doesn't score a win or 2 over Nole before the FO, he can forget about winning it. And let's not disregard Thiem either, he routed Djokovic there 2 years ago


  • #483
    Johnmb
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,150 ✭✭✭Johnmb


    walshb wrote: »
    You would have to surely think Nole can beat him? Has beaten him twice before at RG I believe...Nadal is not at his best...Nole is playing better tennis.
    Djokovic can beat him, as can quite a few others. I just don't think they will beat him. He's not at his best, yet easily reached the final on one of his worst surfaces. He tends to peak during the clay court season, on his best surface. Djokovic has peaked now. Even if he keeps it going all the way until RG, or drops and re-peaks there, peak Nadal is too strong on the RG courts still, I think.


  • #484
    walshb
    Registered Users Posts: 54,579 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    dominatinMC wrote: »
    Beaten him once in 16. At the moment I have Djokovic as fav due to him being in Nadals head. Will be interesting to see Nadals form going forward, and if he can do anything to turn the H2H around. If he doesn't score a win or 2 over Nole before the FO, he can forget about winning it. And let's not disregard Thiem either, he routed Djokovic there 2 years ago

    Did he not beat him in a QF as well in 2014 or 2015? When Stan then beat Nole in final?

    Edit: once he beat him in 2015 QF...


  • #485
    SophieLockhart
    Registered Users Posts: 203 ✭✭SophieLockhart


    Johnmb wrote: »
    I'm not really going to get into a GOAT debate, because I think they are pointless, and I certainly wouldn't be saying that Nadal is it if I was, but do you understand what the letters stand for? The AT part means "All Time", not just one match. One defeat doesn't negate all the other successes any player has had.


    I'm not sure why you bother watching tennis if you're not into the GOAT debate. Is it the strawberries and cream that turns you on?


  • #486
    SophieLockhart
    Registered Users Posts: 203 ✭✭SophieLockhart


    The Golden Miller wrote: »
    Who did Federer face between 04-07 to test/measure his supposed "GOAT"-ness against?


    The world's best tennis players at that time presumably.


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  • #487
    josip
    Registered Users Posts: 13,631 ✭✭✭✭josip


    SophieLockhart wrote: »
    1. Federer would have smashed Nadal today, so that is just plain silly.
    2. Djokovic is way ahead, except at Roland Garros.
    3. True
    4. Very unlikely, by both.
    5. Federer doesn't play easy tournaments, and winning any tournament is not easy when you're approaching 38. Try brushing up on your tennis knowledge.


    We'll just have to agree to differ on some of those points Sophie, but why the need for antagonistic comments?
    Do you believe they encourage other posters to consider your point of view?


  • #488
    dominatinMC
    Registered Users Posts: 2,850 ✭✭✭dominatinMC


    walshb wrote: »
    Did he not beat him in a QF as well in 2014 or 2015? When Stan then beat Nole in final?

    No Nadal won it in 2014, lost to Djokovic in 2015 (the year stan beat Novak in the final), and withdrew injured in 2016. So one loss to Djokovic and one to Soderling in 2009 (I think)


  • #489
    SophieLockhart
    Registered Users Posts: 203 ✭✭SophieLockhart


    dominatinMC wrote: »
    Where did I make the claim that I said he was ahead in the GOAT debate? He is, however, in the overall debate. Tonight's result doesn't change that, are you seriously claiming that it should? If we are following your well-thought out argument, then does Federer deserve to be in it after suffering the worst GS Final drubbing of them all in FO 08? Ridiculous to suggest that a hammering in a final negates all the work of 20 years


    Tonight's result doesn't change it, it reinforces it. Nadal/Djokovic are the same age and a direct comparison is possible, unlike with Federer from the previous generation. And no he's not in the debate, he's only cleaned up on clay because 95% of players favour hard court tennis.


  • #490
    walshb
    Registered Users Posts: 54,579 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    dominatinMC wrote: »
    No Nadal won it in 2014, lost to Djokovic in 2015 (the year stan beat Novak in the final), and withdrew injured in 2016. So one loss to Djokovic and one to Soderling in 2009 (I think)

    Yes, I made an edit...

    They had some razor close matches at RG...


  • #491
    SophieLockhart
    Registered Users Posts: 203 ✭✭SophieLockhart


    josip wrote: »
    We'll just have to agree to differ on some of those points Sophie, but why the need for antagonistic comments?
    Do you believe they encourage other posters to consider your point of view?


    Sorry if you interpreted them as antagonistic, I just thought your post was somewhat lacking in tennis education.


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  • #492
    The Golden Miller
    Registered Users Posts: 5,044 ✭✭✭The Golden Miller


    SophieLockhart wrote: »
    The world's best tennis players at that time presumably.

    So a bunch of second tier players for the most part then?


  • #493
    walshb
    Registered Users Posts: 54,579 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    SophieLockhart wrote: »
    Sorry if you interpreted them as antagonistic, I just thought your post was somewhat lacking in tennis education.

    That’s some olive branch!


  • #494
    dominatinMC
    Registered Users Posts: 2,850 ✭✭✭dominatinMC


    SophieLockhart wrote: »
    Tonight's result doesn't change it, it reinforces it. Nadal/Djokovic are the same age and a direct comparison is possible, unlike with Federer from the previous generation. And no he's not in the debate, he's only cleaned up on clay because 95% of players favour hard court tennis.


    :D:D:D So, you have the inside track on tennis players opinions? Thanks for that nugget of information. Just stop digging


  • #495
    josip
    Registered Users Posts: 13,631 ✭✭✭✭josip


    walshb wrote: »
    That’s some olive branch!

    The diplomatic corps beckons.
    SophieLockhart wrote: »
    Sorry if you interpreted them as antagonistic, I just thought your post was somewhat lacking in tennis
    education.

    Another point I do agree with you on.
    I think it's already obvious that I know a lot less about tennis than most posters on here, I forgot to add my usual disclaimer to that post.
    I only show up in the tennis forums for the slams to cheer on Djokovic.


  • #496
    Chivito550
    Registered Users Posts: 7,694 ✭✭✭Chivito550


    The Golden Miller wrote: »
    So a bunch of second tier players for the most part then?

    Better than this current era anyway. 31.5 and 32.5 year olds, well part their brilliant best, breezing past the best the world can offer. The mere fact that a 37.5 year old is one of the favorites for every tournament only highlights what a joke the men’s game is at the moment.

    Federer had 2 kids come through at the time he was at his best. I assumed a few years later, Djokovic and Nadal would then have to deal with some more wonderkids coming through. That’s generally how sport works.

    But it hasn’t happened. The next generation have been a huge disappointment, which has allowed the big 3 to keep winning.

    I never thought I’d say this, but I’m actually enjoying the women’s game more at the moment. I haven’t said that since the late 90s.


  • #497
    RosyLily
    Registered Users Posts: 2,919 ✭✭✭RosyLily


    GOAT this, GOAT that. Does no one get tired of the debate? I'm a huge Federer fan and I appreciate what Nadal and Djokovic are doing on the court. They're all bringing eyes to the sport. I'm delighted I get to see them play and got to see Fed and Nole IRL.

    Anywho, looking forward to the 2019 season, especially seeing what Osaka does next. A fit and healthy Kvitova to win Wimbledon....that's the only thing I'd like this year!:D


  • #498
    Chivito550
    Registered Users Posts: 7,694 ✭✭✭Chivito550


    RosyLily wrote: »
    GOAT this, GOAT that. Does no one get tired of the debate? I'm a huge Federer fan and I appreciate what Nadal and Djokovic are doing on the court. They're all bringing eyes to the sport. I'm delighted I get to see them play and got to see Fed and Nole IRL.

    Anywho, looking forward to the 2019 season, especially seeing what Osaka does next. A fit and healthy Kvitova to win Wimbledon....that's the only thing I'd like this year!:D

    Yep, has been great to see them IRL. Federer twice at R1 and R2 US Open 2018 (and got to see him practice at Australian Open 2011), and Djokovic once at R4 Australian Open 2011. I’ve never seen Nadal play but did get to see him practice at the 2014 Australian Open which was pretty cool.


  • #499
    Chivito550
    Registered Users Posts: 7,694 ✭✭✭Chivito550


    Upright Row wrote: »
    So the entire field improved in 2008, it suddenly jumped up from 2007 :rolleyes: I never realise Stepanek and Blake became so good in 2008 suddenly.

    Do you seriously rhink glandular fever would have no impact on a player's season? It ended Soderling's career.

    I always enjoy that an excuse is allowed for Rafa losing to Soderling in 2009, yet no excuse is allowed for Roger losing to Novak in 2008 Australian Open.


  • #500
    Johnmb
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,150 ✭✭✭Johnmb


    SophieLockhart wrote: »
    I'm not sure why you bother watching tennis if you're not into the GOAT debate. Is it the strawberries and cream that turns you on?
    Tennis is why I watch tennis. The GOAT debate is pointless as there are too many variables, not least of which is how do you measure it? The number of slams measurement only became a thing during the Sampras era, nobody before him was that bothered about counting the totals, so how do you measure what they achieved given that they often didn't even bother to show up for slams that didn't suit their calendar, in in the case of Laver, he didn't play any for a considerable period. Then you get into equipment. Put a wooden racket with natural gut string into the hands of a modern player, and that's Djokovic and Nadal completely out of the equation. Put a modern racket and strings into Laver's hands, and.... who knows? He'd definitely have to completely change his style of play, would that still be as successful? It's impossible to say, and pointless. Right now, we know who the best player in the world is, that is all we know.


  • #501
    eagle eye
    Registered Users Posts: 37,493 ✭✭✭✭eagle eye


    Zverev and Shapovalov will come through soon and take over I think.


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  • #502
    Chivito550
    Registered Users Posts: 7,694 ✭✭✭Chivito550


    The Golden Miller wrote: »
    Roddick had an indian summer. Played out of his skin in that tournament. His serve was bang on. Federer went back to beating him easily before and after that tournament. Del Potro was a far better player than anything Federer was facing between 04-07, but he was injured most of the time. After Nadal was put out with his first major injury, Federer started winning slams again, including the French, that simple. We can nit pick other individual games between 04-07 that also went to 5 sets for Federer, doesn't mean he deteriorated by 08 because he had a few 5 setters. Unless Novak is way better than Federer ever was, cruising to slams 4 years "past his peak"?



    Read above, addresses most of these points. Also, between 04-07, Federer had little competition. So in his "GOAT years", he actually had no one to measure his greatness against? See that's par for the course with competition, it's going to rattle your confidence. Federer's free ride ended in 08, doubt was feeding into his mind, particularly against Nadal.

    Not true re Roddick. Roddick beat Federer in Miami in their one and only meeting in 2008. There were also some close matches between the two in 2009 leading into Wimbledon.

    Nice try though.


  • #503
    The Golden Miller
    Registered Users Posts: 5,044 ✭✭✭The Golden Miller


    Upright Row wrote: »
    So the entire field improved in 2008, it suddenly jumped up from 2007 :rolleyes: I never realise Stepanek and Blake became so good in 2008 suddenly.

    Do you seriously think glandular fever would have no impact on a player's season? It ended Soderling's career.

    Between 08 and 09 Novak and Murray were coming onto the scene, Nadal became the finished article as an all court player, Wawrinka and Del Porto were also starting to show up etc. But ye, just keep picking some random subpar players to shoehorn in.

    People say Federer was at his best between 04-07, and this was a relatively weak era. Who did he prove his greatness against?


  • #504
    yerwanthere123
    Registered Users, Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 7,283 Mod ✭✭✭✭yerwanthere123


    So many posts to scroll past, the exact same discussion being had after every single grand slam :eek: Can we maybe stick to the designated thread for it?

    Anyway, I didn't watch the match, but surprised it was so one-sided. Barring a terrible injury, I can't really see how Djokovic won't end up with the most slams.

    As for the year ahead, it looks like I've nothing to look forward to on the ATP side, the 'next gen', whoever the hell they are, are nowhere close to breaking through. On the WTA side obviously there's lots, how will Osaka fare for the rest of the year? I'm very interested to see how she'll do at RG, she's already reached the 3rd round twice.


  • #505
    yerwanthere123
    Registered Users, Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 7,283 Mod ✭✭✭✭yerwanthere123


    Upright Row wrote: »
    I never mentioned anything about "proving greatness", I said he was at his peak in those years, more so 2005-2007.

    By the way one could argue the current era is even weaker, the only competition Novak has is a Faded Nadal and a late thirties Federer.

    Every single time you make a new account you're always banned again within the hour. Are you not embarrassed? :confused:


  • #506
    Badabing
    Registered Users Posts: 1,907 ✭✭✭Badabing


    Will Federer go to RG, i can't see the point only if it's his last year and he wants to say goodbye. Still has a decent chance at Wimbledon if he stays fit.


  • #507
    The Golden Miller
    Registered Users Posts: 5,044 ✭✭✭The Golden Miller


    Upright Row wrote: »
    I never mentioned anything about "proving greatness", I said he was at his peak in those years, more so 2005-2007.

    By the way one could argue the current era is even weaker, the only competition Novak has is a Faded Nadal and a late thirties Federer.

    Well if his supposed peak was in an era with little competition, then it doesn't mean all that much relatively speaking.

    This era right now may be weak, but Novak and Nadal have already proved themselves again and again in years gone by against each other, Murray, Del Potro, Federer, Wawrika etc. Federer has been a distant 3rd since 2008, when all are fit. Whether this particular era is weaker than 04-07 has nothing to do with the point I'm making


  • #508
    eagle eye
    Registered Users Posts: 37,493 ✭✭✭✭eagle eye


    Federer is the GOAT.
    Anybody arguing about that just doesn't like the man or something.
    Don't bother waiting me to argue because I'll just dismiss it as you having an agenda.
    I've covered this stuff on this site in the past.
    Nadal has probably reached a higher level at stages in his career but he has had too many injuries and losses of form. Djokovic needs to stay at the top for another three to four years to be considered a challenger to Federer for GOAT status. We can talk about it then if that happens.


  • #509
    yerwanthere123
    Registered Users, Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 7,283 Mod ✭✭✭✭yerwanthere123


    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057836001


  • #510
    dominatinMC
    Registered Users Posts: 2,850 ✭✭✭dominatinMC


    eagle eye wrote: »
    Federer is the GOAT.
    Anybody arguing about that just doesn't like the man or something.
    Don't bother waiting me to argue because I'll just dismiss it as you having an agenda.
    I've covered this stuff on this site in the past.
    Nadal has probably reached a higher level at stages in his career but he has had too many injuries and losses of form. Djokovic needs to stay at the top for another three to four years to be considered a challenger to Federer for GOAT status. We can talk about it then if that happens.

    Well said. Fed is also the GOAT for me, but I do honestly think that the title is on borrowed time. Nadal/Djokovic will catch his GS tally, and then what..

    Anyway, few more thoughts from today, did anyone else think Nadal looked particularly slow? I know he has lost a step, but seemed to be constantly stretching to shots, lateral movement wasn't great. I'm also really intrigued to see how (if) he plays Miami & IW. Will more competitive HC matchs improve his new attacking game, or will he revert to the clay court norm - as he did today? As for Djokovic, he looks invincible at the moment


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  • #511
    yerwanthere123
    Registered Users, Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 7,283 Mod ✭✭✭✭yerwanthere123


    eagle eye wrote: »
    Zverev and Shapovalov will come through soon and take over I think.

    What makes you think they're in any way close?


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