Brexit Discussion Thread VI

eggman100 wrote: »

Complete rubbish, no party has done more for the working man, helped people out of poverty and back to work than the Conservatives. They are the party of business and sound economics. Whereas Labour will screw the poor by making them poorer along with everyone else too.

eggman100 wrote: »

They are the party of business and sound economics.

eggman100 wrote: »

Complete rubbish, no party has done more for the working man, helped people out of poverty and back to work than the Conservatives. They are the party of business and sound economics. Whereas Labour will screw the poor by making them poorer along with everyone else too.

BoJo wrote:

F**K business

eggman100 wrote: »

...
In the case of no deal I predict the £ could fall initially then as the UK reaps the benefits ...

eggman100 wrote: »

I have studied the EU since the late 90s and seen it go from bad to worse. I completely understand it and have been wanting the UK to leave since then, so this is nothing new and its a long time coming. It would have happened earlier and with a bigger vote majority had they given us the referendum years before instead of when it suited Cameron thinking his remain position would win. Your reply shows you have no idea about the EU, or why the UK voted to leave. Until you educate yourself, you will always be frustrated about it

Mr.Wemmick wrote: »

Hahaha! What tosh. Neoliberalism of privatise the profits and socialise the losses party. A party that has been dismantling services and selling off infrastructure to companies that fail to deliver and are not accountable to anyone. The country is fragmented and fragile, the reason we have the Brexit mess going on. A Brexit that highlights how ignorant and poorly educated everyone is.. but no wonder, with education being stripped of funding for decades now. Train services at melt down, overcrowded & extortionate prices, no investment, barely there care services, homelessness, child poverty all on the increase.. on and on it goes..

When I fly into Dublin and grab a bus across town, I sit in comfort on a modern train that takes me down the country on a pre-booked cheap ticket. The same goes for Germany and Spain.

So yeah, think you're the one that's brainwashed, try living in the UK and educate yourself.

Thomas_IV wrote: »

The austeriy policy in the UK since 2010 surely have had a certain impact on the votes in the BrexitRef 2016 as not less deluded Brexiteers of the 'working class' thought that once out of the EU, austerity will be the past and the better days on the horizon. But the opposite will rather be the case, more so as the PM is as usual playing for time and the clock is running down with the time left until 29. March 2019 running out.

Lemming wrote: »

You mean the party for whom a prominent (now-former) senior minister is quoted as saying "fvck business" when challenged about business concerns?

Akrasia wrote: »

More Project fear you mean.


If Dyson moving his company to Singapore isn't enough to make brexiteers question the motives of their champions, then nothing will.

What was Sir James Dyson thinking? The decision by Britain’s most successful pro-Brexit entrepreneur to choose such an inopportune moment to relocate the HQ of his eponymous empire to Singapore is a gift to the Remainer establishment.

Symbolism is what matters in politics: the fact that only two employees are moving, and that Dyson is continuing to invest vast amounts in the UK, will go unnoticed. His critics will only remember that he is engineering his very own Dysexit, and the Leavers now have one fewer entrepreneur at their disposal to make the bullish case for post-Brexit Britain.

Yet while the “optics” are bad – and Sir James maintains in our business pages that the move has nothing to do with Brexit – he is being ruthlessly consistent. The vision of Leave-supporting entrepreneurs like him came in two parts: a radical break with the EU, including single market regulations, and for the UK to rebuild its economy by encouraging wealth-creation.

Two-and-a-half years after the referendum, the chances of getting either are receding: under Theresa May’s deal, even shorn of the backstop, we would remain subject to all kinds of heavy-handed rules. With the chances of a retro-socialist Jeremy Corbyn government also rising, Dyson must have felt compelled to take matters into his own hands.

He isn’t leaving because he’s changed his mind on the desirability of a real Brexit. He isn’t leaving because his firm would be damaged: the impact of no deal would be trivial given the location of his markets and production facilities.

He isn’t relocating to the EU, or Norway: he isn’t seeking to remain part of the single market, let alone the customs union. He is moving his HQ to Singapore, that low-tax, ultra competitive, pro-business city-state, the one place Remainers desperately say they don’t want the UK to become.

Yes, Singapore recently signed a trade deal with the EU, and Dyson was already planning to build his electric car there. But it's ridiculously Eurocentric to obsess about one deal with the EU. Dyson will be selling cars all over the world from Singapore, and in some cases will face barriers. Yet the attractiveness of the country swamps everything else.

If they had any sense, the Tories would respond to Dyson’s decision by concluding that we are not Brexiting in a radical enough way and that the chances of a Corbyn government are now too high to ignore. It is an indictment not of Brexit itself but of how it is being ruined by those entrusted with implementing it.


I don’t know of a single pro-Brexit business leader who is anything but despondent: they are aghast at Mrs May’s dithering, at the amateurishness of her dealings with the EU, at her almost deliberate talking down of the economy.

They can barely believe how the Treasury and other powerful Remain forces have failed to lay the grounds for no deal, how they have done nothing to cut taxes or to bolster competitiveness, how they still maintain that all of our regulations are perfect, and how a once in 50-year opportunity to engineer an economic renaissance is being squandered.

All are increasingly worried that we could be about to face a Corbyn government determined to confiscate swathes of corporate Britain, aided and abetted by rebel Tory MPs, the Government’s betrayal of Brexit voters and its pathetic inability to make the case for capitalism. Yet none of these entrepreneurs has suddenly embraced Remain.

They are bearish on the UK because their dream of a rejuvenated, free-trading Britain is dying, sabotaged by an establishment in denial about the need for Britain to adopt an economic model fit for a globalised world.

It is not just Brexiteers who believe the UK is becoming uncompetitive. Gopichand Hinduja, a Remainer whose family controls a £20.6 billion fortune, thinks taxes are driving people away.

“There used to be a lot of ease of doing business,” he says. “Now, with changes in tax-doms, non-doms – they have made so many complications that people don’t even know what returns they have to file,” he told The Telegraph.

“I have found many of my rich friends – billionaires – have left London and become residents either in Dubai or Singapore or Lebanon.”

The tragic reality is that the free-market, low-tax Brexit backed by Thatcherites and libertarians no longer appears to be a likely outcome of the machinations of the next few weeks. If we do technically leave the EU, it will probably be through an adulterated variant of Mrs May’s dour, pessimistic, useless deal, one that means we end up saddled with much of the EU’s acquis communautaire. It will be a case of more managed decline, Eurozone-style.

In her Bruges speech, Lady Thatcher grounded her opposition to political integration in her support for individual freedom, bottom-up decision-making and free-markets.

“Just when those countries such as the Soviet Union, which have tried to run everything from the centre, are learning that success depends on dispersing power and decisions [...], there are some in the Community who seem to want to move in the opposite direction. We have not successfully rolled back the frontiers of the state in Britain, only to see them re-imposed at a European level.”

These words launched a thousand Eurosceptic vessels: from that day on, most British free-marketeers became increasingly anti-EU; without that movement, the referendum would never have been called.

If you want to know what could have been, had the right people taken power after June 2016, rewatch Martin Durkin’s brilliant Brexit: The Movie. The documentary was shared like a modern-day Samizdat prior to the referendum; it didn’t mention immigration once yet made an extraordinarily powerful case for the kind of capitalist Brexit that Thatcherites always dreamt of.

Is it all over? Or could we still end up with a radically liberalising Brexit, one that repositions Britain as an entrepot economy specialising in trade, technology, finance and science, a high-skilled hub that attracts wealth and talent to the UK, a link between East and West that encourages the next generation of Dysons to relocate to our shores, rather than flee them? Yes, of course – but then again I do believe in miracles.

eggman100 wrote: »

I do agree though that the UK trains could be improved, but taking them into state ownership again? No not the answer

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

You're right, but there's no need to put any emotion into a proposal from the DUP. They're fully irrelevant in this process, what they say or want doesn't matter.

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Deliciously spun by the Telegraph opinion machine:

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2019/01/23/dysons-move-shows-thatcherite-dream-free-market-brexit-dying/



(Emphasis mine)

So there you have it. Dyson isn't leaving Britain because of Brexit, it's because Brexit is unlikely to be Brexity enough. Singapore on Thames dashed, etc.

Mr.Wemmick wrote: »

Cameron and Osborne loved to sing from the EU-are-evil sheet. It was convenient as they could point towards the poor Greeks and blame the EU for UK's austerity and Osborne's nasty grab the cash and run policies (which May continue when she took over). That pair have a lot to answer for in turning folks against the EU and for creating the environment that led to Farage's whipped up dramas.

And now, no one seems to be talking straight or have the courage to admit to the UK public that any deal they manage to get will never match or be as good as the deal they have now.