Strava

Tenzor07 · 06-01-2019 10:17am #1

Ready steady cheat! A great way to steal some top ten places on Strava or a KOM...

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.wsj.com/amp/articles/ready-set-cheat-electric-bikers-zoom-past-mad-pedalers-on-cycling-app-11546621210

prunudo · 06-01-2019 11:04am

Tenzor07 wrote: »

Ready steady cheat! A great way to steal some top ten places on Strava or a KOM...

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.wsj.com/amp/articles/ready-set-cheat-electric-bikers-zoom-past-mad-pedalers-on-cycling-app-11546621210

They should really introduce a menu option to say what type of bike it was on the ride. You'd like to think the majority would be honest enough to say their amazing climb times were power assisted. Unfortunately you'll always get the exception though.

Lemming · 06-01-2019 2:58pm

I don't get the concern with strava. People can cheat now anyway by using a motorbike or being in a car or whatever. Unless you're trying to garner the attention of potential sponsors by gaining a few KOMs, it's ultimately just a willy-waving badge equivalent to winning an argument on the internet, i.e. "congratulations, now who cares?". And if you are trying to garner the attention of potential sponsors, well .. you'll be found out in short order anyway, leading me back to the above question of "who cares?".

I do think they still should have e-bike categories in the spirit of trying to achieve KOMs, but I think it prudent not to lose sight of the above.

prunudo · 06-01-2019 4:33pm

I'm a long way off kom but it would be handy to know whether times are set on a ebike. Particular the climbs.
At the end of the day its really your own times that are important but it is nice to compare how you faired against other people on a given day (i don't really worry about this year or all time times as trails and weather conditions have an impact on times). Maybe its willy waving but it reassuring when you think you've had a sh1t day to discover you're times weren't as bad as you thought.

Lemming · 06-01-2019 4:49pm

jvan wrote: »

I'm a long way off kom but it would be handy to know whether times are set on a ebike. Particular the climbs.
At the end of the day its really your own times that are important but it is nice to compare how you faired against other people on a given day (i don't really worry about this year or all time times as trails and weather conditions have an impact on times). Maybe its willy waving but it reassuring when you think you've had a sh1t day to discover you're times weren't as bad as you thought.

I'm not dismissing KOMs as a useful tool to see how you stack up to others. It's more a train of thought that ultimately they're not worth getting bent out of shape over and/or allowing ones judgement towards e-bikes to be coloured by what is - in the grand scheme of things - a non-entity. Anyone who claims a KOM by cheating is really only cheating themselves anyway, irrespective of the method used to do so. When push comes to shove, and you're against them in a race, you'll smash them because a) you are actually fitter/better/more determined/etc. and b) they've got a false sense of ability.

Top Dog · 06-01-2019 10:46pm

jvan wrote: »

They should really introduce a menu option to say what type of bike it was on the ride. You'd like to think the majority would be honest enough to say their amazing climb times were power assisted. Unfortunately you'll always get the exception though.

Strava does have that option. If selected then all segments disappear, and it doesn't count towards your total yearly distance either. Its just a question of people being honest really.

I did a 37.7km ride in Ballyhoura back in November with a friend. We both had them as regular rides for about 2 hours to compare times with our previous times and see what a difference it made, then we both set them to e-bike and all those segments disappeared.

Edited to add screen-shots to show the lack of segments and the E-Bike option

CramCycle · 06-01-2019 11:32pm

Over in wales with a friend on trails and he was saying every time, on Strava KOMs, on long ones are clearly e-bikes, riders climbing on loops at near road speeds. I find that weird that someone would put their ebike times up on strava but then again when I started using strava it was just to log distance. until they put in the option to select ebike, it is hard to say who just doesn't care alot and who is a sneaky one.

Lets be honest though, there are loads of people around Dublin who drive around to get KOMs, so Strava as a tool to see if you can attain a KOM is practically useless in many areas.

On a different note, I still think they are class and am totally in favour of them. Would never use one myself until retirement and my kids start pulling away from me on a climb.

Wanderer78 · 07-01-2019 9:14am

Lemming wrote:

I don't get the concern with strava. People can cheat now anyway by using a motorbike or being in a car or whatever. Unless you're trying to garner the attention of potential sponsors by gaining a few KOMs, it's ultimately just a willy-waving badge equivalent to winning an argument on the internet, i.e. "congratulations, now who cares?". And if you are trying to garner the attention of potential sponsors, well .. you'll be found out in short order anyway, leading me back to the above question of "who cares?".

Strava is a known problem for trail builders, tis a pain in the arse if you ask me, all our problems started when it came along

C3PO · 07-01-2019 9:36am

Wanderer78 wrote: »

Strava is a known problem for trail builders, tis a pain in the arse if you ask me, all our problems started when it came along

I really don't believe this - people are far more likely to "find" trails by being brought to them by other people or by accident! It's very hard to find a trail from Strava!

Wanderer78 · 07-01-2019 10:18am

C3PO wrote: »

I really don't believe this - people are far more likely to "find" trails by being brought to them by other people or by accident! It's very hard to find a trail from Strava!

we ve experienced trail damage by some strava users, this can be clearly seen on strava, yes its impossible to say if these trails were exclusively found via strava, but issues have increased significantly since the trails were posted on the site. we have also been experiencing whats commonly called 'strava lines', since the postings on strava.

C3PO · 07-01-2019 10:32am

Wanderer78 wrote: »

we ve experienced trail damage by some strava users, this can be clearly seen on strava, yes its impossible to say if these trails were exclusively found via strava, but issues have increased significantly since the trails were posted on the site. we have also been experiencing whats commonly called 'strava lines', since the postings on strava.

That's a fair point regarding straightened lines but linking increased trail usage to Strava is a bit tenuous in my opinion! The number of mountain bikers has increased hugely at the same time!

Hurrache · 07-01-2019 10:34am

C3PO wrote: »

I really don't believe this - people are far more likely to "find" trails by being brought to them by other people or by accident! It's very hard to find a trail from Strava!

Agree. Take a walk around Ticknock for example and you'll see where the unofficial pop onto the fireroads purely from the tyre tracks.

C3PO wrote: »

but linking increased trail usage to Strava is a bit tenuous in my opinion! The number of mountain bikers has increased hugely at the same time!

It's cause and correlation isn't it. As you say it just so happens the number of bikers increase, and with them they use Strava anyway. Anyone I know who know the unofficial trails only do so after being brought through them by someone. Those people then bring other people, and so on. Word of mouth I believe would have a bigger affect.

Wanderer78 · 07-01-2019 10:35am

C3PO wrote: »

That's a fair point regarding straightened lines but linking increased trail usage to Strava is a bit tenuous in my opinion! The number of mountain bikers has increased hugely at the same time!

yea i will agree with your opinion of strava, its impossible to be absolutely correct here, but damage can be seen to be done from strava users, while using strava, hence why there was an absolute ban of trail information online since the beginning.

xxyyzz · 07-01-2019 10:40am

[thread derail]I find that Strava is quite helpful when I'm going somewhere new and I don't have anyone to show me around. I generally have a look at the area on Strava and then find somebody's spin which covers most of the segments. You can then export their spin to a .gpx file and I import that onto the View Ranger app on my phone. This overlays their spin onto an OS map on the phone and it's pretty easy to follow and find trails. I do agree though that Strava has the ability to ruin trails with corners being straightened out etc.[/thread derail]

Back to e-bikes

C3PO · 07-01-2019 10:40am

Wanderer78 wrote: »

yea i will agree with your opinion of strava, its impossible to be absolutely correct here, but damage can be seen to be done from strava users, while using strava, hence why there was an absolute ban of trail information online since the beginning.

Apart from the issue with straightened lines I can't see how "Strava users" will damage trails any more than anyone else!

Tenzor07 · 07-01-2019 10:43am

Wanderer78 wrote: »

we ve experienced trail damage by some strava users, this can be clearly seen on strava, yes its impossible to say if these trails were exclusively found via strava, but issues have increased significantly since the trails were posted on the site. we have also been experiencing whats commonly called 'strava lines', since the postings on strava.

MODS: Can we have another new thread please entitled "Strava" :rolleyes:

xxyyzz · 07-01-2019 10:54am

Good or bad?

Wanderer78 · 07-01-2019 11:13am

xxyyzz wrote: »

Good or bad?

it can be both, but people should think before they use it in a certain way.

thanks mods for shifting posts

Tenzor07 · 07-01-2019 11:37am

It's not just Strava which is causing issues, it's others like Whatsapp groups also...

Years ago, well even just 5 years ago, you had to join a club and go on group spins just to find the trails..

Now you just join a Whatsapp group you found somewhere on a Facebook page, and go on a spin with some lads who have suss'd out the unofficial trails based on observations of there own spins on Strava... You may never see those lads again but you'll head out now and lead your own little group around the trails.

And with the explosion in popularity of mountain biking, ebikes etc. there's a lot more demand for the gnarly MTB trails which people will go out and session, and as seen in Djouce they will modify existing trails and stick in shortcuts on corners and straightline trails down hills.

CramCycle · 07-01-2019 12:18pm

Tenzor07 wrote: »

And with the explosion in popularity of mountain biking, ebikes etc. there's a lot more demand for the gnarly MTB trails which people will go out and session, and as seen in Djouce they will modify existing trails and stick in shortcuts on corners and straightline trails down hills.

But surely that makes the trails less fun, I think what the main issue here is (some) roadies using trails and not having any semblance of craic.

Tenzor07 · 07-01-2019 12:37pm

CramCycle wrote: »

But surely that makes the trails less fun, I think what the main issue here is (some) roadies using trails and not having any semblance of craic.

Yeap, straight line trails are rubbish, very steep and rutted from riders skidding down them with the brakes on, and you'd pedal up for 10 minutes just to get back down in 2... useless!

Lemming · 07-01-2019 2:23pm

Stava is a tool. It doesn't do any of the following:

Force people to create 'cheat lines'
Force people to claim a segment KOM by using a motorbike, car, etc.
Force people to blast through/past other trail users (be they cyclists, walkers, or horse-riders) like it's a god-given right and/or get shirty and abusive when they are forced to slow down for whatever impediment is ahead of them on the trail.

What Strava does is enable people to hide behind such behaviour by claiming "oh, I was training/chasing a KOM/insert-whatever-excuse-here" as if it suddenly absolves them of any and all personal responsibility for being muppets. In any case, people have been creating 'cheat' lines since time began because they could, or they were cheeky, or they spotted some other line possibility that looked like fun or a good idea to them at the time.

C3PO · 07-01-2019 2:50pm

I think Wanderer's point is that Strava encourages that sort of behaviour!!

The Noble Nudge · 07-01-2019 5:28pm

Im a bit lost here lads..
How can damage on trails be attributed to Strava users?
I found myself in Ticknock and can pretty much say I did a few standard loops got bored and found trails off trails simply by seeing others tyre tracks...
My escape form Strava segments is my mountain bike...have enough of that crap on the road...
I was only talking about this very thing on a hill run last Saturday...similar circumstances increasing popularity, Facebookers who have no interest in the sport just stopping for the instagram shot etc etc..

Top Dog · 07-01-2019 6:58pm

xxyyzz wrote: »

Good or bad?

Can be both. At the end of the day it comes down to the individual like so many other technologies.

Personally like it for tracking my own progress on segments, to see if I'm improving or not. It's also a handy odometer for me. I like to compare with friends and others to see where I stack up, but I'm sure others are crazy for the KOM's etc who'll abuse it for the glory.

rizzodun · 07-01-2019 7:07pm

Wait... is this a thread that split from a thread that originally split from another thread?

What is this? Boards Inception??

Lemming · 07-01-2019 7:17pm

The Noble Nudge wrote: »

Im a bit lost here lads..
How can damage on trails be attributed to Strava users?
I found myself in Ticknock and can pretty much say I did a few standard loops got bored and found trails off trails simply by seeing others tyre tracks...
My escape form Strava segments is my mountain bike...have enough of that crap on the road...
I was only talking about this very thing on a hill run last Saturday...similar circumstances increasing popularity, Facebookers who have no interest in the sport just stopping for the instagram shot etc etc..

It's only attributed to Strava users because some of them must be showing up on segements as having taken a "line" that would match up with a short-cut. It in no way proves the lines exist because of said users though. Add in some people chasing KOMs and "doing whatever it takes" and the cheat lines get more use, straightening out trails, etc. hence the blame, as undeserved as much of it may be.

prunudo · 07-01-2019 7:31pm

Top Dog wrote: »

Can be both. At the end of the day it comes down to the individual like so many other technologies.

Personally like it for tracking my own progress on segments, to see if I'm improving or not. It's also a handy odometer for me. I like to compare with friends and others to see where I stack up, but I'm sure others are crazy for the KOM's etc who'll abuse it for the glory.

This sums up what i use it for too. Handy way of keeping an eye on how much or little I've really being doing over the course of a couple of months too.

Top Dog · 07-01-2019 8:03pm

Since its a Strava thread - can anyone tell me if the Summit subscription is worth the 60 quid a year? I'm coming across a number of segments and other routes that people have done, but the only way I can download them is if I have the premium package.

Big Nasty · 07-01-2019 8:10pm

Lemming wrote: »

It's only attributed to Strava users because some of them must be showing up on segements as having taken a "line" that would match up with a short-cut. It in no way proves the lines exist because of said users though. Add in some people chasing KOMs and "doing whatever it takes" and the cheat lines get more use, straightening out trails, etc. hence the blame, as undeserved as much of it may be.

Strava isn't even accurate enough to do that.

It's great that mountain biking is a growing sport IMO. There's new trail parks popping up all over the country. A consequence of that is of course heavier trail use. Strava has nothing to do with trail damage IMO. In my experience it's not the learner / first timer who cuts lines on trails either.

Lemming · 07-01-2019 9:08pm

Big Nasty wrote: »

Strava isn't even accurate enough to do that.

It's great that mountain biking is a growing sport IMO. There's new trail parks popping up all over the country. A consequence of that is of course heavier trail use. Strava has nothing to do with trail damage IMO. In my experience it's not the learner / first timer who cuts lines on trails either.

That's what I was alluding to; just poorly phrased when rushed for time earlier. It's fashionable to blame things like strava on people chasing the clock when it's often nothing more than "because", and you're right, it's typically not beginners doing it. Happened as far back as I can remember in the 1990s. Things may change, come or go, but people behave the same. People doing things like roosting corners because they think it "looks cool", or riding knowingly muddy/boggy trails in poor weather conditions do far more damage than short-cuts ever could.

Strava

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