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No Tokens for Washing Machine - Landlord not replying

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2

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    #32
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    ....... wrote: »
    I would think if the OP took a case to PRTB for this you would find that the LL was told to remove the coin access to such a basic facility pronto.

    And who will pay for the electricity in that case? The LL is charging for use of electricity and there is no way on earth the PRTB would find any issue with the system overall, while it might not be as common in Ireland a coin operated communal washing room is very common abroad (in many counties people here love to say how great renting is compared to Ireland) so saying its to do with people not knowing rights or being afraid is nonsense. The issue is that lack of supplied tokens but this system was operated correctly there would be no issue.

    If the op had a washing machine/dryer in is house he would be paying the electricity cost to use it so its not that he is being charge rent and charged to wash his clothes in a way he wouldn't be paying otherwise.

    How else can a communal washing facility be operated without people taking the absolute p1ss and racking up huge bills for overuse of the dryer in particular.


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    #33
    .......
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,057 ✭✭✭.......


    Melissa Mushy Judo wrote: »
    How else can a communal washing facility be operated without people taking the absolute p1ss and racking up huge bills for overuse of the dryer in particular.

    By providing free tokens and tracking usage. Each flat uses a different coloured token. Its quite clear who is "taking the piss".

    I mean, its so simple Im surprised I need to type it.

    And legislation is often unclear otherwise no one would ever be making an argument in court as to the meaning of it.


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    #34
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    ....... wrote: »
    By providing free tokens and tracking usage. Each flat uses a different coloured token. Its quite clear who is "taking the piss".

    I mean, its so simple Im surprised I need to type it.

    And legislation is often unclear otherwise no one would ever be making an argument in court as to the meaning of it.

    Why on earth would a LL pay for tenants to wash their clothes? A LL has to provide facilities, if they are in the apartment then the tenant pays in their esb bill, if they are communal then the tenant has to pay for the electricity use by other means.

    I mean, its so simple I'm surprised I need to type it :rolleyes:

    Providing facilities does not mean subsiding the tenants which a LL would be in your rather bizarre suggestion.


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    #35
    .......
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,057 ✭✭✭.......


    Melissa Mushy Judo wrote: »
    Why on earth would a LL pay for tenants to wash their clothes? A LL has to provide facilities, if they are in the apartment then the tenant pays in their esb bill, if they are communal then the tenant has to pay for the electricity use by other means.

    I mean, its so simple I'm surprised I need to type it :rolleyes:

    Providing facilities does not mean subsiding the tenants which a LL would be in your rather bizarre suggestion.

    Should be factored into the rent.

    How is the LL accounting for the electricity that each tenant in a shared property is using individually at all? There isnt a separate line into each room.

    Perhaps someone else is "taking the piss" by cooking sunday roasts all the time?

    I mean, you can see how nonsensical this becomes right?

    If you charge for laundry then you can charge for cooking, and everything else in the legislation that isnt explicitly accounted for.


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    #36
    Doop
    Registered Users Posts: 1,465 ✭✭✭Doop


    ....... wrote: »
    Should be factored into the rent.

    How is the LL accounting for the electricity that each tenant in a shared property is using individually at all? There isnt a separate line into each room.

    Perhaps someone else is "taking the piss" by cooking sunday roasts all the time?

    I mean, you can see how nonsensical this becomes right?

    If you charge for laundry then you can charge for cooking, and everything else in the legislation that isnt explicitly accounted for.

    Pretty sure all tenants pay their own ESB charges :confused::confused:

    Even in Pre-63 properties each apartment/unit has their own esb meter. Have you ever rented in Ireland?


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    #37
    Del2005
    Registered Users Posts: 18,882 ✭✭✭✭Del2005


    ....... wrote: »
    If you charge for laundry then you can charge for cooking, and everything else in the legislation that isnt explicitly accounted for.

    With more restrictions coming I can see landlords changing for these. We've got used to paying for a lot of things that where "free" before business found that they could charge for it.


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    #38
    EdgeCase
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,471 ✭✭✭EdgeCase


    I had to use shared laundry facilities in Belgium a few years ago and it was infuriating.

    One couple would put laundry into the machine in the morning, never remove it and then if you put it into a clothes basket (provided in laundry room) they would come knocking on doors going crazy about their clothes being removed from the machine.

    Sometimes they would be in there for 12+ hours.

    In the end people started moving out.


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    #39
    .......
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,057 ✭✭✭.......


    Doop wrote: »
    Pretty sure all tenants pay their own ESB charges :confused::confused:

    Even in Pre-63 properties each apartment/unit has their own esb meter. Have you ever rented in Ireland?

    Both tenant and landlord but never in a shared house.

    Even if the electricity is metered individually the general point I am making still stands. The LL should factor the communal electricity into the rent.

    Laundry should not be treated differently than other items in the same section of the legislation and if you are going to charge per use then its fair game to charge per use for everything else in that section.

    Yet I am sure everyone agrees that it would be wrong to charge per use of the microwave or hob.


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    #40
    Pelvis
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,758 ✭✭✭Pelvis


    ....... wrote: »
    Should be factored into the rent.

    How is the LL accounting for the electricity that each tenant in a shared property is using individually at all? There isnt a separate line into each room.

    Perhaps someone else is "taking the piss" by cooking sunday roasts all the time?

    I mean, you can see how nonsensical this becomes right?

    If you charge for laundry then you can charge for cooking, and everything else in the legislation that isnt explicitly accounted for.
    You're just being ridiculous now tbh.


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    #41
    Pelvis
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,758 ✭✭✭Pelvis


    ....... wrote: »
    Both tenant and landlord but never in a shared house.

    Even if the electricity is metered individually the general point I am making still stands. The LL should factor the communal electricity into the rent.

    Laundry should not be treated differently than other items in the same section of the legislation and if you are going to charge per use then its fair game to charge per use for everything else in that section.

    Yet I am sure everyone agrees that it would be wrong to charge per use of the microwave or hob.

    It doesn't matter about right and wrong. The legislation doesn't prohibit these charges! End of.


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    #42
    .......
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,057 ✭✭✭.......


    Pelvis wrote: »
    You're just being ridiculous now tbh.

    Actually I am being perfectly consistent.

    The legislation says nothing about conditional access, which is what using tokens is. If a person hasnt the money to buy tokens then they have no access.

    It says nothing about charging either way.

    However it is reasonable to assume that it is to be treated the same way as other items in the same section of the legislation. If you wish to dispute this then please lay out your argument? Simply claiming I am being ridiculous does not disprove anything I am saying.


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    #43
    .......
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,057 ✭✭✭.......


    Pelvis wrote: »
    It doesn't matter about right and wrong. The legislation doesn't prohibit these charges! End of.

    So to be consistent then you must agree that it is also ok to charge for the microwave/hob/sink etc on a per usage basis?

    Yes or no? This is the second time I have asked you.

    If not, why not? The legislation doesnt prohibit these charges right? End of.;)


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    #44
    Graham
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 17,642 Mod ✭✭✭✭Graham


    Mod Note

    ok ....... unless you can link to an independent source to backup your assertion, let it drop. You've dragged the thread off topic quite enough.


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    #45
    .......
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,057 ✭✭✭.......


    Graham wrote: »
    Mod Note

    ok ....... unless you can link to an independent source to backup your assertion, let it drop. You've dragged the thread off topic quite enough.

    I have linked to the legislation.

    It is being asserted that because the legislation doesnt specifically prohibit charges then that is ok.

    So I am asking if then charges for all items in that part of the legislation is also ok?

    Im not clear why I am getting a mod note on this? I have been civil even when others have not?


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    #46
    Mrs OBumble
    Registered Users Posts: 25,692 ✭✭✭✭Mrs OBumble


    ....... wrote: »
    So to be consistent then you must agree that it is also ok to charge for the microwave/hob/sink etc on a per usage basis?

    That is exactly what the ESB do: they charge per usef, based on how much you use.

    All the LL has to do is provide accrss to the stove etc. S/he id not required to provide power for them to use.


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    #47
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    ....... wrote: »
    I have linked to the legislation.

    It is being asserted that because the legislation doesnt specifically prohibit charges then that is ok.

    So I am asking if then charges for all items in that part of the legislation is also ok?

    Im not clear why I am getting a mod note on this? I have been civil even when others have not?

    Essentially you are saying that a tenant who gets their esb cut off for non-payment has a case to make a complaint that they can't wash or cook as the LL should provide these and that the tenant shouldn't have to pay to use them.
    ....... wrote: »
    So to be consistent then you must agree that it is also ok to charge for the microwave/hob/sink etc on a per usage basis?

    If they were in a communal area and the tenant was not otherwise paying for them then through their own esb bill then it wouldn't be a big deal once done properly. The system makes sense for laundry though not so much for the other facilities.


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    #48
    Fol20
    Registered Users Posts: 3,623 ✭✭✭Fol20


    Many other european countries have it setup this way. They have longer secure tenanies. I thought this is what you want. Personally i wish we just give them a box the tenants then have the choice to put in a unit if they want or they can go to an external laundry unit


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    #49
    s7ryf3925pivug
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,007 ✭✭✭s7ryf3925pivug


    It's the norm for college accommodation to openly charge per wash on a similar system. For example:

    http://www.dcuaccommodation.ie/living-on-campus/apartment-living/laundry-facilities

    Therefore it can be taken that it's not illegal. Deliberately avoiding payment for a service obviously is illegal on the other hand. Saving a couple of euro a week doesn't strike me as worth risking being kicked out of your apartment or being refused a reference, given the current climate.


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    #50
    dennyk
    Registered Users Posts: 1,648 ✭✭✭dennyk


    ....... wrote: »
    ...Given they are in the same section of the legislation as providing access to oven/freezer/microwave/sink etc it is reasonable to assume that the intention is that they are NOT to be charged for per use.
    ...
    Landlords need to provide access to a toilet - nowhere in the legislation does it say anything about charging per use of a toilet because its bloody obvious eh?

    So what you're saying is that there's a significant untapped market for coin-op ovens, hobs, fridges, microwaves, sink taps, and toilets in private rental accommodation, eh? I think I smell a new business opportunity... :pac:


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    #51
    sheroman01
    Registered Users Posts: 4,650 ✭✭✭sheroman01


    Okay, so there's been a lot of replies, a lot of them off topic. My issue was the fact that I needed to get more tokens from my landlord, and I have not heard back from her in 13 days. As I said, I can understand a few days grace, but nearly two weeks is too long. What can I do in this case? Is there any compensation I can get? Perhaps deduct it from rent? I'm looking for answers to these questions, not alternatives as to how I can wash my clothes. Thanks for the advice though.

    In relation to the setup I have; I pay €2 per token, which normally gets me a wash and a dry. Sometimes one token per wash and one per dry. Initially I thought this was crazy but for a while it was fine. I see some pros and cons:

    Pros:
    Don't have to purchase washing machine/dryer
    Price per wash/dry seems alright
    Washing Machine+Dryer is in a separate room, giving more room for my studio

    Cons:
    Limited time to use; another tenant can be using it when I need it
    Can't use it if my landlord doesn't give me tokens!!


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    #52
    sheroman01
    Registered Users Posts: 4,650 ✭✭✭sheroman01


    ....... wrote: »
    I have linked to the legislation.

    It is being asserted that because the legislation doesnt specifically prohibit charges then that is ok.

    So I am asking if then charges for all items in that part of the legislation is also ok?

    Im not clear why I am getting a mod note on this? I have been civil even when others have not?

    I see where you're coming from, but in this case the LL would need to install washing machines and/or dryers in all the studios in the flat. This would take up a lot of precious space in a studio! Providing a communal washing facility (which is in the tenants rights) allows everyone to use it, allowing extra space in our rooms. I understand it's not ideal, but I can see how/why it works. What would be your solution be in this case? Demand that you want a washing machine in your studio, taking up space? Or, use a communal one and use it for free (the LL is not obliged to pay for usage of the washing machine).


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    #53
    Mrs OBumble
    Registered Users Posts: 25,692 ✭✭✭✭Mrs OBumble


    sheroman01 wrote: »
    Okay, so there's been a lot of replies, a lot of them off topic. My issue was the fact that I needed to get more tokens from my landlord, and I have not heard back from her in 13 days. As I said, I can understand a few days grace, but nearly two weeks is too long. What can I do in this case?

    Have you started phoning the LL (not texting, that's silly) daily? Have you talked to any other tenants?


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    #54
    L1011
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 67,749 Mod ✭✭✭✭L1011


    Two texts and no phonecall would not be enough effort taken to look for the laundry costs back nor would there be any compensation above that anyway


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    #55
    Birdsong
    Registered Users Posts: 985 ✭✭✭Birdsong


    sheroman01 wrote:
    Okay, so there's been a lot of replies, a lot of them off topic. My issue was the fact that I needed to get more tokens from my landlord, and I have not heard back from her in 13 days. As I said, I can understand a few days grace, but nearly two weeks is too long. What can I do in this case? Is there any compensation I can get? Perhaps deduct it from rent? I'm looking for answers to these questions, not alternatives as to how I can wash my clothes. Thanks for the advice though.

    To be honest I don't I understand why your not ringing everyday , or at least texting.


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    #56
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    When you do get in contact with the LL can you buy a large amount of tokens together and then before they run out start requesting more again?


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    #57
    1874
    Registered Users Posts: 2,382 ✭✭✭1874


    Is it possible they have become I'll or have had a bereavement and are unavailable, id be reluctant to pester them, sort it out yourself and wait until contact is made.


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    #58
    whomitconcerns
    Registered Users Posts: 4,311 ✭✭✭whomitconcerns


    1874 wrote: »
    Is it possible they have become I'll or have had a bereavement and are unavailable, id be reluctant to pester them, sort it out yourself and wait until contact is made.

    It's a business the landlord is running and it has been two weeks. I'm not insensitive but this is bad advice.


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    #59
    1874
    Registered Users Posts: 2,382 ✭✭✭1874


    ok so the person could be out of action but posting on boards was never going to get them in contact with the person, by all means raise the issue, you have to think there might be something genuine behind it, so if the OP doesn't want to re-wear dirty socks and underwear, seems like they should attend to the immediate need, either buy some tokens off another tenant or being their stuff to a luandrette, I'm sure the person will turn up eventually or maybe a representative if they are incapacitated.


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    #60
    L1011
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 67,749 Mod ✭✭✭✭L1011


    Realistically the OP had made no efforts to contact the landlord at all - two texts over a prolonged period. So the idea that they're incapacitated rather than simply unaware of the issue is quite a leap.


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    #61
    loyatemu
    Registered Users Posts: 14,761 ✭✭✭✭loyatemu


    what are the other tenants doing?


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