Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2018/2019 Part Two

bangkok · 11-12-2018 02:18PM

Mitch Connor wrote: »

Fair enough.

I disagree with you completely.

It may be a flawed stat, but it can also be a good indicator.

I don't know why people would chose to totally ignore it as a stat - it can be indicative of general play, and strengths/weakness to be worked on.

Does it take into account how clear cut a chance it is or how good the player is that has that chance?

For example a good chance for lukaku may be a sitter for ronaldo, or a half chance for fellaini would be a goal for martial

Mitch Connor · 11-12-2018 02:22PM

bangkok wrote: »

Does it take into account how clear cut a chance it is or how good the player is that has that chance?

For example a good chance for lukaku may be a sitter for ronaldo, or a half chance for fellaini would be a goal for martial

Takes into account the context of the situation but not the player. The goal is to normalise conversion rates, so to further manipulate it according to the player would be incorrect.

If Ronaldo will score lower percentage chances than other players then his ratio of goals to xg will refleck that. That's the point.

If it took into acciunt the player then arguable everyone would eventually normalise to a 1:1 ratio or ear enough, which would be of no indication to anyone.

Edit: also LOL at calling it nonsense and then asking how it works.

bangkok · 11-12-2018 02:27PM

Mitch Connor wrote: »

Takes into account the context of the situation but not the player. The goal is to normalise conversion rates, so to further manipulate it according to the player would be incorrect.

If Ronaldo will score lower percentage chances than other players then his ratio of goals to xg will refleck that. That's the point.

If it took into acciunt the player then arguable everyone would eventually normalise to a 1:1 ratio or ear enough, which would be of no indication to anyone.

Edit: also LOL at calling it nonsense and then asking how it works.

I still think its a nonsense stat after i seen dalots name on the list

Mitch Connor · 11-12-2018 02:29PM

bangkok wrote: »

I still think its a nonsense stat after i seen dalots name on the list

FFS. What a stupid effing reason that is.

That is not an issue with the stat, its an issue with the person who used it. Ffs.

Trigger · 11-12-2018 02:45PM

Mitch Connor wrote: »

FFS. What a stupid effing reason that is.

That is not an issue with the stat, its an issue with the person who used it. Ffs.

It's an issue for Bangkok because those players are higher up the list than his beloved Pogba, it's the only reason why he is rubbishing it

clubberlang12 · 11-12-2018 02:56PM

Mitch Connor wrote: »

So is Pogba not getting into the box because he can't be arsed or because the tactical instruction to the side has generally been more conservative in that respect? Is Pogba ignoring the instructions to get further forward cause he doesn't want to be involved in that area of the play, or are we not set up for those runs to the be the case?

Was Lampard give the same instructions as Pogba is, but either ignored them to go further forward or pogba is ignoring them and staying further back?

Maybe if Pogba had Makalele and Essien behind him he would be freer (and willing?) to attack more? Maybe Matic and Herrera/Fellaini have not offered the same platform as those two.

It could be Pogba, it could be tactics. I would say tactics, cause I can't imagine him not wanting to be involved around the box more, but I guess others will say different.

I would be of the opinion, that it is Pogba and not tactics dictating him not getting forward into the box. Similar to it being Pogba, not tactics, who seems to lose possession and then throwing his hands in the air, not reacting to losing the ball in the first place thus letting the play run on 10/15 yards before reacting. The same Pogba who seems reluctant to put in a defensive shift needed a lot of the time, which is why i don't put credence in the idea that he thinks 2 midfielders behind him aren't solid enough for him to venture further forward. How many do we need behind him for that then!!!
Some of it is because of his playing style......he likes to ping forward balls trying to create chances, so he can get caught further behind the run of play. Again, as i said earlier, nothing wrong with that and we have benefited from him doing it, but sometimes i would like to see him just give the ball a bit quicker and shorter and increase his off the ball movement towards the box. We have seen in games, notably against City, where he can get in and and on the end of chances.

bangkok · 11-12-2018 03:13PM

astradave wrote: »

It's an issue for Bangkok because those players are higher up the list than his beloved Pogba, it's the only reason why he is rubbishing it

And yet pogba is the only man utd player nominated for the uefa team of the year shorlist for this year

Drumpot · 11-12-2018 03:24PM

bangkok wrote: »

And yet pogba is the only man utd player nominated for the uefa team of the year shorlist for this year

TitianGerm · 11-12-2018 03:27PM

bangkok wrote: »

And yet pogba is the only man utd player nominated for the uefa team of the year shorlist for this year

I'm surprised you haven't mentioned he was put in MNF combined 11 for next Sunday.

bangkok · 11-12-2018 03:28PM

TitianGerm wrote: »

I'm surprised you haven't mentioned he was put in MNF combined 11 for next Sunday.

pjohnson · 11-12-2018 03:50PM

Dalot actually makes sense ahead of Pogba given how dangerous his crosses were.

But I suppose Dalot will suprise a lot of people but obviously not too much lest he overshadow our true ☆

Mitch Connor · 11-12-2018 04:28PM

pjohnson wrote: »

Dalot actually makes sense ahead of Pogba given how dangerous his crosses were.

But I suppose Dalot will suprise a lot of people but obviously not too much lest he overshadow our true ☆

I think Dalot being included in the original point was stupid on the basis he had basically only played 1 game, vs a rubbish side - so his 'average' xAssists is base on a skewed sample size.

bangkok · 11-12-2018 04:34PM

Mitch Connor wrote: »

I think Dalot being included in the original point was stupid on the basis he had basically only played 1 game, vs a rubbish side - so his 'average' xAssists is base on a skewed sample size.

Thats why i was saying it was a nonsense stat.

Fred and other players were on it as well

11-12-2018 04:45PM

Mitch Connor wrote: »

I think Dalot being included in the original point was stupid on the basis he had basically only played 1 game, vs a rubbish side - so his 'average' xAssists is base on a skewed sample size.

its 3 apperances and 196 minutes now tbf it is a small enough sample size but I just included everyone who was above pogba, I was just providing some information without any discussion so I wanted to be provide all the information.

No need to get insulting over the inclusion it's easy dismiss him for sample size reasons if you like, but its funny the Pogba apologists will focus on one thing and ignore all the others above him who have decent or comparable sample sizes

11-12-2018 05:05PM

I'll throw up the top 6 from other teams with a 450 minute sample size

City

Silva
Sterling
Jesus
Gundagun
Sane
B.silva

Chelsea

Hazard
Giroud
Willain
Barkely
Pedro
Azpilcuetta

Arseanal

Kolansic
Ozil
Iwobi
Ramsey
Aubayeang
Mkihtarian

Hardly any surprises there in that lot, Maybe kolansic although again he'd will drop the more games he plays most likely

If people want to call it a nonsense stat than go right ahead but you get the more creatice players and players you'd expect to be on a list of expected assists from other clubs, but Pogba our supposed creative messiah is well down the list at United

bangkok · 11-12-2018 05:14PM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I'll throw up the top 6 from other teams with a 450 minute sample size

City

Silva
Sterling
Jesus
Gundagun
Sane
B.silva

Chelsea

Hazard
Giroud
Willain
Barkely
Pedro
Azpilcuetta

Arseanal

Kolansic
Ozil
Iwobi
Ramsey
Aubayeang
Mkihtarian

Hardly any surprises there in that lot, Maybe kolansic although again he'd will drop the more games he plays most likely

If people want to call it a nonsense stat than go right ahead but you get the more creatice players and players you'd expect to be on a list of expected assists from other clubs, but Pogba our supposed creative messiah is well down the list at United

What about actual assists and goals scored, attempts on goal?

VW 1 · 11-12-2018 05:27PM

bangkok wrote: »

What about actual assists and goals scored, attempts on goal?

If you're in a position to rubbish what people put up without knowing what the stats even mean or what they include, then at least have the decency to put up some stats or figures yourself.

Have you ever contributed to a debate other than to tell people they are wrong and you are right just because of your own opinion?

jayo26 · 11-12-2018 05:34PM

VW 1 wrote: »

If you're in a position to rubbish what people put up without knowing what the stats even mean or what they include, then at least have the decency to put up some stats or figures yourself.

Have you ever contributed to a debate other than to tell people they are wrong and you are right just because of your own opinion?

bangkok · 11-12-2018 05:47PM

VW 1 wrote: »

If you're in a position to rubbish what people put up without knowing what the stats even mean or what they include, then at least have the decency to put up some stats or figures yourself.

Have you ever contributed to a debate other than to tell people they are wrong and you are right just because of your own opinion?

https://www.whoscored.com/Teams/32/Show/England-Manchester-United

I only posted that link the other day showing how pogba was our highest rated player overall this season

http://www2.squawka.com/players/paul-pogba/stats#total-chances-created#manchester-united-(current)#english-barclays-premier-league#8#season-2017/2018#819#all-matches#1-38#type

One from last season, only mata created more chances than pogba last season

Rossi IRL · 11-12-2018 05:47PM

Reckon we will see

Romero

Valencia Bailly Rojo Young

Fred Pereira Pogba

Mata Lingard

Greenwood

https://twitter.com/utdxtra/status/1072509452115472389?s=19

Mitch Connor · 11-12-2018 05:51PM

bangkok wrote: »

Thats why i was saying it was a nonsense stat.

Fred and other players were on it as well

That doesn't make it a nonsense stat. The makes the use of it stupid.

Mitch Connor · 11-12-2018 05:53PM

Rossi IRL wrote: »

Reckon we will see

Romero

Valencia Bailly Rojo Young

Fred Pereira Pogba

Mata Lingard

Greenwood

Don't see any way in hell that Greenwood starts that match. On the bench, maybe. On as a sub? would be surprised. Starting. No way, imo.

Lukaku into that side, imo. Dropped last two matches, Jose wants a response from him. Start vs Valencia and 'earn' the start vs Liverpool.

Also, if that is the midfield three that starts.... I'd be very interested to see how they do. Some very good passers and a lot of technical skill.

Rossi IRL · 11-12-2018 06:20PM

Mitch Connor wrote: »

Don't see any way in hell that Greenwood starts that match. On the bench, maybe. On as a sub? would be surprised. Starting. No way, imo.

Lukaku into that side, imo. Dropped last two matches, Jose wants a response from him. Start vs Valencia and 'earn' the start vs Liverpool.

Also, if that is the midfield three that starts.... I'd be very interested to see how they do. Some very good passers and a lot of technical skill.

Yep could see Lukaku start, although I'd rather see him not. Can't see Rashford playing though I reckon he should be rested before the weekend.

yabadabado · 11-12-2018 07:11PM

Greenwood, not a hope.

Be good if Jose did give a few youngsters and lesser used players some minutes.

The_Kew_Tour · 11-12-2018 07:15PM

I'm like this idea of Alternative table.

We can now confirm United have 24 league titles. 2006, 2010, 2012(remember them back then?) and 2018.

Rossi IRL · 11-12-2018 07:29PM

yabadabado wrote: »

Greenwood, not a hope.

Be good if Jose did give a few youngsters and lesser used players some minutes.

Yep Jose just confirmed he is only brought as backup, probably won't even see him on the bench.

beno619 · 11-12-2018 08:01PM

So apparently Smalling has been playing with a fractured foot since the Young Boys game. Fair play to him.

11-12-2018 08:28PM

Mitch Connor wrote: »

That doesn't make it a nonsense stat. The makes the use of it stupid.

I'm not sure what your failing to grasp Mitch, I didn't use the stat originally at all merely posted all the information on thread, you and Bangkok got caught up in the Dalot part of it, I didn't comment on it until today

bangkok · 11-12-2018 08:42PM

beno619 wrote: »

So apparently Smalling has been playing with a fractured foot since the Young Boys game. Fair play to him.

So thats the reason he cant pass the ball straight!

How Soon Is Now · 11-12-2018 09:35PM

Haven't seen much of this Koulibaily fella looking at him now though he's a beast! Very commanding as well looks a very good defender.

Were linked to him but no way Napoli letting him go in there right mind for anything less then 100mil.

Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2018/2019 Part Two

Comments