Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2018/2019 Part Two

ElChe32 · 10-12-2018 04:15PM

bangkok wrote: »

quiet around these parts today...

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Better?

Liam McPoyle · 10-12-2018 04:24PM

ElChe32 wrote: »

Better?

It's amazing what a good win does for the thread. If it had been a bad result or poor performance then there would be a lot more posts. I'm sure if we are beaten next weekend there will be lots of traffic anyway.

wadacrack · 10-12-2018 04:30PM

Whatsisname wrote: »

United just posted this article, talks about Lukaku losing weight after gaining muscle mass in Russia.

“How a diet change helped Romelu Lukaku to regain his scoring knack”

https://www.manutd.com/en/news/detail/how-a-diet-change-helped-romelu-lukaku-to-regain-his-scoring-knack

Very surprised players would be so naive at that level . Football at that level has a huge cardiovascular demand now. More intensity sprints than ever. Too much muscle makes it impossible to cover that much ground, especially considering the fact he is naturally big anyway. Harry Kane is like 90 kg and dosent run that much but Lukaku has very good pace so its much better if he can sprint more often

StringerBell · 10-12-2018 04:32PM

Yep, all your buddies will be back in for the chats then bangkok, hang in there.

jayo26 · 10-12-2018 04:37PM

Business Cat wrote: »

It's amazing what a good win does for the thread. If it had been a bad result or poor performance then there would be a lot more posts. I'm sure if we are beaten next weekend there will be lots of traffic anyway.

Funny ain't it and then they try claim it's because of bad results why the thread has died a death.

bangkok · 10-12-2018 04:38PM

StringerBell wrote: »

Yep, all your buddies will be back in for the chats then bangkok, hang in there.

Which buddies would those be?

Your Airbag · 10-12-2018 04:41PM

Business Cat wrote: »

It's amazing what a good win does for the thread. If it had been a bad result or poor performance then there would be a lot more posts. I'm sure if we are beaten next weekend there will be lots of traffic anyway.

Its quiet normal, when things go well there are less talking points, when things go wrong there is much to look at. Its a shame Jose gives us so much to go over with his bizarre team selections over the season though.

damowill · 10-12-2018 05:01PM

Your Airbag wrote: »

Its quiet normal, when things go well there are less talking points, when things go wrong there is much to look at. Its a shame Jose gives us so much to go over with his bizarre team selections over the season though.

speaking of team selection, Mata needs to start. We are a different team with him in it.

bangkok · 10-12-2018 05:04PM

damowill wrote: »

speaking of team selection, Mata needs to start. We are a different team with him in it.

Defo. I never understand why he gets dropped.

Your Airbag · 10-12-2018 05:12PM

bangkok wrote: »

Defo. I never understand why he gets dropped.

He's got no pace and it makes him a liability for tracking back etc, besides that he probably our best MF player,

Mitch Connor · 10-12-2018 05:22PM

wadacrack wrote: »

Very surprised players would be so naive at that level . Football at that level has a huge cardiovascular demand now. More intensity sprints than ever. Too much muscle makes it impossible to cover that much ground, especially considering the fact he is naturally big anyway. Harry Kane is like 90 kg and dosent run that much but Lukaku has very good pace so its much better if he can sprint more often

he's been this size since he came back though.... why were the club not active in getting back in 'PL' shape much sooner? while he may say it was for Belgium, the fact he is still huge in december, 4 months later, would indicate that the strength and conditioning program his is on at United was designed to keep him that way.

Mitch Connor · 10-12-2018 05:34PM

jayo26 wrote: »

Funny ain't it and then they try claim it's because of bad results why the thread has died a death.

personally I dont think the fulham game gave me much to talk about - not much changed.

Herrera looked combative and lively, Dalot looked very good.

First half performance was good, I thought the second half was typical of a United performance this season - Fulham were on top for large parts and we struggled.

Up to the goal we had actually created very little or nothing.

Rashford looked lively - gutted he messed up that one vs one after the little drag back, that was a lovely little piece of play.

Ultimately though, it was at home vs a side with a terrible record all season. I'm not going to spend my time praising it when it is as likely we are dull as dishwater vs Valencia and lose, and then get hammered by Liverpool.

Chelsea, Juve - we've had false dawns and rays of hope already this season, i'm not going to harp on about 1 good half vs Fulham being a sign it is all fixed. We need to see the side provide, and succeed, at pressing the opposition and putting continual pressure on in the final third on an ongoing basis.

If Pogba had played (and everything else was the same) and had been brilliant you'd have people saying it was only one game and he has been generally rubbish the rest of the time - so I'll give the same treatment to the team performance. Promising, but need to see it every single game, for 90+ minutes. We got 45mins at the weekend.

Oh, and Smalling is an embarrassment on the ball, never mind his defending. Replacing him with someone who can bring the ball out and play a pass to a midfield would do wonders. Lindelof looks capable in that regard, which is a reason I hope he can really kick on.

DARK-KNIGHT · 10-12-2018 06:11PM

If pogba is moved on I have no problem now

Get a no nonsense midfielder in

Pogba to me has been very disappointing

Yes I am aware the standard of service he gives to France is first class but has proven nothing coming back

bangkok · 10-12-2018 06:14PM

DARK-KNIGHT wrote: »

If pogba is moved on I have no problem now

Get a no nonsense midfielder in

like 50m fred who doesnt even get a game?

Mitch Connor · 10-12-2018 06:30PM

DARK-KNIGHT wrote: »

If pogba is moved on I have no problem now

Get a no nonsense midfielder in

Pogba to me has been very disappointing

Yes I am aware the standard of service he gives to France is first class but has proven nothing coming back

IMO we need a midfielder that is capable of what he is capable of. Maybe Savic, oft linked, could come in to that role - as I thought he might do in the summer with Pogba being moved on - but I also question whether Jose can get the best out of any player in our midfield, any creative player especially. Maybe we 'just' need someone with Pogba's ability on the ball, but who does things a bit quicker. Maybe then Jose would be fine and get the best of them.

What do you mean by no nonsense? I think of a tough tackling simple passing player who just keeps things ticking. Maybe a Nicky Butt...

We aren't lacking a no nonsense midfielder (in my understanding), imo, or at least that 100% isn't what I want from Pogba. From Fellaini, or Fred, or Herrera, or Matic yeah, and maybe a better version of them - but not Pogba. I want someone who can flick past a midfielder or two and create space, can hold off a player before turning them. Can play a 50 yard pass on to a penny. Can score from range.

I know they aren't things we see consistently from Pogba, but they are things he is more than capable of - and it is incredibly frustrating that he doesn't show it - but that is what I want from him, and anyone who would come in to replace him.

If we replaced Pogba with a no nonsense played I would be gutted, to be honest. We'd have to replace him with another attacking, inventive, creative player.

jayo26 · 10-12-2018 06:56PM

Is this creative midfield thing a myth tho lads?

You see Ander coming into midfield the weekend and having his best game in ages playing quick one touch passing.... if Jose and his training are so nullified how can Ander do something we need to be done every game In midfield and something like it or not pogba doesn't do.

I think what is damaging in Jose is his lining up with 5 defenders against teams we should not be giving them time to think about attacking us.

10-12-2018 07:04PM

jayo26 wrote: »

Is this creative midfield thing a myth tho lads?

You see Ander coming into midfield the weekend and having his best game in ages playing quick one touch passing.... if Jose and his training are so nullified how can Ander do something we need to be done every game In midfield and something like it or not pogba doesn't do.

I think what is damaging in Jose is his lining up with 5 defenders against teams we should not be giving them time to think about attacking us.

We see much better movement of the ball around the pitch when Pogba isn't playing but that is now getting put down to a change in tactics, even though we saw it happen against young boys when Pogba didnt start and when he came on later but thats not his fault either

Whatsisname · 10-12-2018 07:20PM

ElChe32 wrote: »

Better?

I’m literally on my way out to be in the audience for this tonight, you’re all there with me in spirit my dudes

Mitch Connor · 10-12-2018 08:44PM

jayo26 wrote: »

Is this creative midfield thing a myth tho lads?

You see Ander coming into midfield the weekend and having his best game in ages playing quick one touch passing.... if Jose and his training are so nullified how can Ander do something we need to be done every game In midfield and something like it or not pogba doesn't do.

I think what is damaging in Jose is his lining up with 5 defenders against teams we should not be giving them time to think about attacking us.

But Herrera was shocking most of last season, picked up towards the end. Herrera has been in and out of the side this season too. If it was so simple... why hasn't Herrera been doing it? Why isn't he first choice and doing it every week? Why was he crap for a lot of last season? Also, what amazing chances did he create, vs one of the worst teams in the league? I'm not saying he played badly, I think he was very good - but did he demonstrate he could be the difference maker with a magic pass in a crunch tie vs the best the game? Did he demonstrate he could see, and hit, the creative pass?

Here is Scholes (and Rio said similar) talking about Herrera just last week after the Arsenal game.

“You have to question the quality of the player,” Scholes said on BT Sport .

“Rio asked the question there when he said: ‘Is Ander Herrera capable of playing that ball to Pogba?’ Now, he’s in 15-20 yards of space, it’s probably a 30-yard ball — a simple ball — if he’s not good enough to play that ball then he shouldn’t be at this club.”

Playing simple, quick, one touch football vs fulham... great.

Mitch Connor · 10-12-2018 08:49PM

Deleted User wrote: »

We see much better movement of the ball around the pitch when Pogba isn't playing but that is now getting put down to a change in tactics, even though we saw it happen against young boys when Pogba didnt start and when he came on later but thats not his fault either

So when Pogba plays he just sucks the ability out of every other player? When he is on the pitch they can't run, control the ball, move into space or play simple passes?

Fook me, he's the most influential player ever to have played football.

Question though.... just a little one... Why were we unable to pass the ball, move into space, control the ball or deal with any sort of pressure in the second half vs Fulham? I think Pogba was on the bench for that too and we stank it up like we have so many other games this season.

I wonder if, maybe, the United team in general have rubbish all season and one half of football vs Fulham doesn't prove it is all down to Pogba. Maybe Pogba is one of a number of players, I'd say about 11 to 14 per match that have been pretty rubbish in all aspects of their game.

pjohnson · 10-12-2018 08:55PM

Mitch Connor wrote: »

But Herrera was shocking most of last season, picked up towards the end. Herrera has been in and out of the side this season too. If it was so simple... why hasn't Herrera been doing it? Why isn't he first choice and doing it every week? Why was he crap for a lot of last season? Also, what amazing chances did he create, vs one of the worst teams in the league? I'm not saying he played badly, I think he was very good - but did he demonstrate he could be the difference maker with a magic pass in a crunch tie vs the best the game? Did he demonstrate he could see, and hit, the creative pass?

Here is Scholes (and Rio said similar) talking about Herrera just last week after the Arsenal game.

“You have to question the quality of the player,” Scholes said on BT Sport .

“Rio asked the question there when he said: ‘Is Ander Herrera capable of playing that ball to Pogba?’ Now, he’s in 15-20 yards of space, it’s probably a 30-yard ball — a simple ball — if he’s not good enough to play that ball then he shouldn’t be at this club.”

Playing simple, quick, one touch football vs fulham... great.

Aside from for Juventus, for France and 45 minutes against Man City last year when can you say this applied to Pogba? Theres been plenty of instances of Pogba trying the "magic" or "creative" and just loosing the ball feebly or fcuking up an attack.

Herrera might keep it simple but he kept the fùckin possession and found a teammate. I'll take that 9 times out of 10 thanks instead of ineffective flash.

jayo26 · 10-12-2018 09:00PM

Mitch Connor wrote: »

But Herrera was shocking most of last season, picked up towards the end. Herrera has been in and out of the side this season too. If it was so simple... why hasn't Herrera been doing it? Why isn't he first choice and doing it every week? Why was he crap for a lot of last season? Also, what amazing chances did he create, vs one of the worst teams in the league? I'm not saying he played badly, I think he was very good - but did he demonstrate he could be the difference maker with a magic pass in a crunch tie vs the best the game? Did he demonstrate he could see, and hit, the creative pass?

Here is Scholes (and Rio said similar) talking about Herrera just last week after the Arsenal game.

“You have to question the quality of the player,” Scholes said on BT Sport .

“Rio asked the question there when he said: ‘Is Ander Herrera capable of playing that ball to Pogba?’ Now, he’s in 15-20 yards of space, it’s probably a 30-yard ball — a simple ball — if he’s not good enough to play that ball then he shouldn’t be at this club.”

Playing simple, quick, one touch football vs fulham... great.

Mitch I wasn't saying ander is brilliant or the way forward I was just putting the question out there based on one recent game where ander came in and played quick one touch football the team seemed to perform reasonably well so is it a case that instead of finding a player that can pass the ball like pogba we need a midfielder that can play faster then pogba... do we need that creative midfielder or do we need a midfielder with the right attitude that can move the ball from defence to attack and link up with the midfielder beside him.

I don't know I'm just asking the question here it seems to me like maybe the way forward is similar to what ander did the weekend it allows us to counter teams and in my opinion pogba doesn't allow that he doesn't pass an move.

Mitch Connor · 10-12-2018 09:04PM

pjohnson wrote: »

Aside from for Juventus, for France and 45 minutes against Man City last year when can you say this applied to Pogba? Theres been plenty of instances of Pogba trying the "magic" or "creative" and just loosing the ball feebly or fcuking up an attack.

Herrera might keep it simple but he kept the fùckin possession and found a teammate. I'll take that 9 times out of 10 thanks instead of ineffective flash.

I think he has shown he has the ability. as I said earlier. If you want to replace Pogba, if we want to win the top trophies, we would need to replace him with a playmaker capable of magic. Not herrera.

And yeah, apart from 45 minutes agaisnt City, yeah. Are you HONESTLY saying you've seen nothing superb from pogba apart from that 45? You never saw the amazing lofted through balls to the strikers that some scored from and some missed? didn't see him vs Everton in the league when Lukaku was out? just that 45 vs City.

This is why discussing Pogba is so maddening. You come up against arguments that he hasn't displayed his talents AT ALL apart from 45 vs City. thats just effing rubbish. as rubbish as he has been a lot of the time!

Mitch Connor · 10-12-2018 09:09PM

jayo26 wrote: »

Mitch I wasn't saying ander is brilliant or the way forward I was just putting the question out there based on one recent game where ander came in and played quick one touch football the team seemed to perform reasonably well so is it a case that instead of finding a player that can pass the ball like pogba we need a midfielder that can play faster then pogba... do we need that creative midfielder or do we need a midfielder with the right attitude that can move the ball from defence to attack and link up with the midfielder beside him.

I don't know I'm just asking the question here it seems to me like maybe the way forward is similar to what ander did the weekend it allows us to counter teams and in my opinion pogba doesn't allow that he doesn't pass an move.

Find a player that can do both. Xavi. Iniesta. Scholes. Modric. Pirlo. they exist. We expected Pogba to become that, to be honest. Silva for City can play both tempos and dictate the tempo of the match while being creative. HAzard knows when to hold on to the ball and when to play.

IMO we need a player that will play quicker than Matic, Herrera and a creative player that will play at pace when needed. Pogba should be that player - he SHOULD be. He needs to cop on. Should he be moved on and we replace him then we are still, imo, looking for a creative player that will release quickly when the need is there - and also hold the ball and slow the pace when the need is there.

The problem isn't that pogba is a 'creative' player and they slow the game down - the problem is POGBA slows the game down. its not a trait of the player type, it is a trait of Pogba.

bangkok · 10-12-2018 09:11PM

pjohnson wrote: »

Aside from for Juventus, for France and 45 minutes against Man City last year when can you say this applied to Pogba? Theres been plenty of instances of Pogba trying the "magic" or "creative" and just loosing the ball feebly or fcuking up an attack.

Herrera might keep it simple but he kept the fùckin possession and found a teammate. I'll take that 9 times out of 10 thanks instead of ineffective flash.

22 assists under mourinho and that would be much higher if lukaku had a decent first touch, or if rashford was a better finisher

VW 1 · 10-12-2018 09:47PM

Bangkok you constantly speak of his goal or assist record, its not very good for the type of player he is supposed to be.

95 appearances and 19 goals, 20 assists according to whoscored.com.

He doesn't influence games enough, doesn't drive the team on and has a questionable attitude at best.

When you pay a world record fee for a player you expect better than mediocre stats and performances.

You citing 20 assists ignores huge amounts of other issues.

jayo26 · 10-12-2018 10:16PM

VW 1 wrote: »

Bangkok you constantly speak of his goal or assist record, its not very good for the type of player he is supposed to be.

95 appearances and 19 goals, 20 assists according to whoscored.com.

He doesn't influence games enough, doesn't drive the team on and has a questionable attitude at best.

When you pay a world record fee for a player you expect better than mediocre stats and performances.

You citing 20 assists ignores huge amounts of other issues.

Didn't see what bangkok post but that tally for pogba is dreadful to be honest and id say majority of them assists were before this time last year and he has few penalties for goals this year. Would be interesting to compare his record to someone like kdb in that amount of time or Juan Mata and so on.

pjohnson · 10-12-2018 10:24PM

jayo26 wrote: »

Didn't see what bangkok post but that tally for pogba is dreadful to be honest and id say majority of them assists were before this time last year and he has few penalties for goals this year. Would be interesting to compare his record to someone like kdb in that amount of time or Juan Mata and so on.

De Bruyne got 16 assists last year, 18 the year before that. He almost matches Pogba's 90+ games record in a single season :pac:

But Bangkok did say it would be more but for Lukaku's touch and Rashfords finishing so the excuse WAS prebuilt into it.

Mitch Connor · 10-12-2018 10:24PM

jayo26 wrote: »

Didn't see what bangkok post but that tally for pogba is dreadful to be honest and id say majority of them assists were before this time last year and he has few penalties for goals this year. Would be interesting to compare his record to someone like kdb in that amount of time or Juan Mata and so on.

I find assists an odd stat.

Can be a simple pass before a worlds class run or goal. So... Meh?

Also, he could (and has) created great chances that our forwards have missed, so doesn't get the 'stat' but could do no more. Our strikers have been inconsistent at best his entire time at United. Creative stats will suffer fir it, imo.

Kdb is playing in a team that attack and score loads. Pogba is not.

10-12-2018 10:29PM

Understat.com xgstats have Dalot, Martial, Sanchez, Mata, Herrera, Lingard, Fred and Young with a higher expected assist per 90 then Pogba

Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2018/2019 Part Two

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