'The Haunting Soldier' sculpture vandalised

24-11-2018 12:50PM

Bambi wrote: »

This reminds me of having a nosey in a church in middle england a while back, one of those churches where they hang regimental flags and such. There was a memorial plaque set up to the local battalion. It listed all the officers who died in WW1, Captain Smedley Barrows, col. Chiswick-Carruthers etc etc. an impressive list. Then a line at the end commemorating the 600 odd enlisted men who died, almost as a Post Script.

It's a meaningless statistic given the numeric disparity.

would you care to name the Church, or the location?

The normal convention is for men of the Parish to be named in alphabetical order, like this http://www.roll-of-honour.com/Hampshire/Ropley.html

and this http://www.roll-of-honour.com/Hertfordshire/StAlbansAbbeyHertsYeoWW1RollofHonour.html

Timberrrrrrrr · 24-11-2018 01:03PM

Aegir wrote: »

would you care to name the Church, or the location?

The normal convention is for men of the Parish to be named in alphabetical order, like this http://www.roll-of-honour.com/Hampshire/Ropley.html

and this http://www.roll-of-honour.com/Hertfordshire/StAlbansAbbeyHertsYeoWW1RollofHonour.html

That's how it is in the church near me and also at the memorial in the local park, I have never seen rank placed at the forfront, everyone is listed alphabetically.

Franz Von Peppercorn · 24-11-2018 01:04PM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Have been in a few of those churches as well. Not very easy to cover up the class issue and divide at the heart of British society when you have that evidence of it laid out in marble.

You'll have plenty of Irish here shortly to try and do it(cover it up) though, even though it has cost many many Irish lives over the centuries, not just in the 1914-18 period.

Still the facts are correct that proportionally more middle and upper middle class kids died. 20% of eton grads vs 10% of the enlisted men. 50% of all soldiers were injured. Source. Jackson’s movie - they shall not grow old.

CrankyHaus · 24-11-2018 01:50PM

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

Still the facts are correct that proportionally more middle and upper middle class kids died. 20% of eton grads vs 10% of the enlisted men. 50% of all soldiers were injured. Source. Jackson’s movie - they shall not grow old.

This is in large part why WW1 casts such a long shadow in the UK. The wars it fought before mainly involved its underclass, "the scum of the earth, enlisted for drink" as the Duke of Wellington described his men.

WW1 had a disproportionate amount of "respectable" people at the front line, right down to the level of private due to the volunteer system. These were literate and able to speak of their experiences in places where they would be heard, which was quite novel and shocking to a population indoctrinated to believe that war was chivalrous and noble.

FrancieBrady · 24-11-2018 02:33PM

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

Still the facts are correct that proportionally more middle and upper middle class kids died. 20% of eton grads vs 10% of the enlisted men. 50% of all soldiers were injured. Source. Jackson’s movie - they shall not grow old.

I never contested that fact.
It is why this war is so well 'remembered'. For once the elite paid a price and we won't be allowed to forget it like wars that wasted lower class cannon fodder.

24-11-2018 03:46PM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I never contested that fact.
It is why this war is so well 'remembered'. For once the elite paid a price and we won't be allowed to forget it like wars that wasted lower class cannon fodder.

Jesus, you never stop do you.

The reason it is remembered so well, in loads of countries, is because 16 million people died.

FrancieBrady · 24-11-2018 03:53PM

Aegir wrote: »

Jesus, you never stop do you.

The reason it is remembered so well, in loads of countries, is because 16 million people died.

Yes it is respectfully remembered in other countries.
However, the bone of contention here is how it is remembered in Britain. There is no doubt that a lot of the remember is unseemly and divisive. Many British people shun the remembrance never mind those here who object to the November frenzy.

Dyr · 24-11-2018 03:54PM

Aegir wrote: »

The reason it is remembered so well, in loads of countries, is because 16 million people died.

When are we sticking up a statue to commemorate the Spanish Flu so?

24-11-2018 04:14PM

Bambi wrote: »

When are we sticking up a statue to commemorate the Spanish Flu so?

Go on then

_Kaiser_ · 24-11-2018 04:23PM

Read the first page and skipped ahead.

The most depressing thing about this whole issue is not just the defacement of the statue... It's the bitter anger and entrenched attitudes from our republican-leaning posters - attitudes that have no place in 2018 on either side of the issue.

I thought these die hards were finally well, dying off... But they are always all over threads like this spitting hatred and resentment and trying to drag us back to a time when bombings and murders (by both sides) were a weekly occurrence.

Time to join the rest of us in the 21st century lads.

FrancieBrady · 24-11-2018 04:28PM

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

Read the first page and skipped ahead.

The most depressing thing about this whole issue is not just the defacement of the statue... It's the bitter anger and entrenched attitudes from our republican-leaning posters - attitudes that have no place in 2018 on either side of the issue.

I thought these die hards were finally well, dying off... But they are always all over threads like this spitting hatred and resentment and trying to drag us back to a time when bombings and murders (by both sides) were a weekly occurrence.

Time to join the rest of us in the 21st century lads.

Being anti war mongering seems to me to be the modern position. Reveling in the 'gallantry' and 'honour' of what was ignominious death is the archaic pursuit tbh.

mattser · 24-11-2018 04:40PM

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

Read the first page and skipped ahead.

The most depressing thing about this whole issue is not just the defacement of the statue... It's the bitter anger and entrenched attitudes from our republican-leaning posters - attitudes that have no place in 2018 on either side of the issue.

I thought these die hards were finally well, dying off... But they are always all over threads like this spitting hatred and resentment and trying to drag us back to a time when bombings and murders (by both sides) were a weekly occurrence.

Time to join the rest of us in the 21st century lads.

You nailed it there K. They'll never move into the 21st century. Too bitterly entrenched. The good news is they're a tiny minority.
Anyway, I'd like to see those responsible for this criminality brought to justice.
Ciao.

Lefty Bicek · 24-11-2018 04:42PM

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

Read the first page and skipped ahead.

The most depressing thing about this whole issue is not just the defacement of the statue... It's the bitter anger and entrenched attitudes from our republican-leaning posters - attitudes that have no place in 2018 on either side of the issue.

I thought these die hards were finally well, dying off... But they are always all over threads like this spitting hatred and resentment and trying to drag us back to a time when bombings and murders (by both sides) were a weekly occurrence.

Time to join the rest of us in the 21st century lads.

Actually the most depressing thing is the fawning and pandering to Unionism.

Because that is what these vacuous, attention-seeking gestures are really about.

By all means go and bleat to them about joining the 21st century.

Let us know how you get on.

FrancieBrady · 24-11-2018 04:43PM

mattser wrote: »

You nailed it there K. They'll never move into the 21st century. Too bitterly entrenched. The good news is they're a tiny minority.
Anyway, I'd like to see those responsible for this criminality brought to justice.
Ciao.

:D You haven't exactly gotten everyone wearing poppies yet mattser. I would think the evidence suggests who is in the minority in this country.

Dyr · 24-11-2018 04:44PM

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

Read the first page and skipped ahead.

The most depressing thing about this whole issue is not just the defacement of the statue... It's the bitter anger and entrenched attitudes from our republican-leaning posters - attitudes that have no place in 2018 on either side of the issue.

I thought these die hards were finally well, dying off... But they are always all over threads like this spitting hatred and resentment and trying to drag us back to a time when bombings and murders (by both sides) were a weekly occurrence.

Time to join the rest of us in the 21st century lads.

By idolizing an imperial war machine from the 20th century? You're not really one to lecture anyone dragging us back eh?

corner of hells · 24-11-2018 05:23PM

Lefty Bicek wrote: »

Actually the most depressing thing is the fawning and pandering to Unionism.

Because that is what these vacuous, attention-seeking gestures are really about.

By all means go and bleat to them about joining the 21st century.

Let us know how you get on.

Fawning and pandering to Unionism ?
You are joking .
A sculpture of a dejected looking figure representing a soldier returning from a war that ended 100 hundred years ago and that's pandering to Unionism ?

What pisses you off is you associate the Brodie tin hat with the British Army and can't see beyond that.

And that's what depresses you ?

Roger Hassenforder · 24-11-2018 05:25PM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Being anti war mongering seems to me to be the modern position. Reveling in the 'gallantry' and 'honour' of what was ignominious death is the archaic pursuit tbh.

FrancieBrady wrote: »

:D You haven't exactly gotten everyone wearing poppies yet mattser. I would think the evidence suggests who is in the minority in this country.

Having regard to its meaning, and condemning this as vandalism means you're an archaic war mongering British sycophant of some discription , further evidenced by the wearing of a poppy...
and so by omission, if you're not wearing poppies, you're not a Brititish war mongering sycophant of some description...

And thus, with such sage insight, and infalible logic is further evidence of the Shinner slide into obscurity. The last circle of the bowl, just before the turd slips around the u-bend...

Timberrrrrrrr · 24-11-2018 05:30PM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Yes it is respectfully remembered in other countries.
However, the bone of contention here is how it is remembered in Britain. There is no doubt that a lot of the remember is unseemly and divisive. Many British people shun the remembrance never mind those here who object to the November frenzy.

You obviously don't live here, The British are very patriotic especially when it comes to WW1 & 2

And please don't bother with your usual imperialism, jingoism, empire, 800 years blah blah blah response, we all know your feelings on the British at this stage.

Timberrrrrrrr · 24-11-2018 05:33PM

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

Read the first page and skipped ahead.

The most depressing thing about this whole issue is not just the defacement of the statue... It's the bitter anger and entrenched attitudes from our republican-leaning posters - attitudes that have no place in 2018 on either side of the issue.

I thought these die hards were finally well, dying off... But they are always all over threads like this spitting hatred and resentment and trying to drag us back to a time when bombings and murders (by both sides) were a weekly occurrence.

Time to join the rest of us in the 21st century lads.

Its the same 3 or 4 posters that feel the need to ram the same sh/te down our throats in every thread pertaining to England/Britain.

Honestly you could play a game of republican bingo with these lads because they trot out the same lines in every thread.

Roger Hassenforder · 24-11-2018 05:34PM

Lefty Bicek wrote: »

Actually the most depressing thing is the fawning and pandering to Unionism.

Because that is what these vacuous, attention-seeking gestures are really about.

By all means go and bleat to them about joining the 21st century.

Let us know how you get on.

Could you be any more hysterical and dramatic?

Whats "depressing" is we still have people who see any gesture other than utter condemnation of all things British as "fawning and pandering" to Unionism.

But its not depressing. Its just embarrassing.

Whats really depressing for those aforementioned depressed i reckon, is the realization that their ideals and auld guff are about 30 years out of touch with modern ireland.

FrancieBrady · 24-11-2018 05:35PM

Roger Hassenforder wrote: »

Having regard to its meaning, and condemning this as vandalism means you're an archaic war mongering British sycophant of some discription , further evidenced by the wearing of a poppy...
and so by omission, if you're not wearing poppies, you're not a Brititish war mongering sycophant of some description...

And thus, with such sage insight, and infalible logic is further evidence of the Shinner slide into obscurity. The last circle of the bowl, just before the turd slips around the u-bend...

Yep...if you object to unseemly war mongering and triumphalism, you must be a Brit hating shinner. :rolleyes:

Well done you!

Timberrrrrrrr · 24-11-2018 05:35PM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Being anti war mongering seems to me to be the modern position. Reveling in the 'gallantry' and 'honour' of what was ignominious death is the archaic pursuit tbh.

Does this include all deaths in wars?

FrancieBrady · 24-11-2018 05:36PM

Roger Hassenforder wrote: »

Could you be any more hysterical and dramatic?

Whats "depressing" is we still have people who see any gesture other than utter condemnation of all things British as "fawning and pandering" to Unionism.

But its not depressing. Its just embarrassing.

Whats really depressing for those aforementioned depressed i reckon, is the realization that their ideals and auld guff are about 30 years out of touch with modern ireland.

It isn't objecting to 'all things British'. Would you ever calm down on these threads?

FrancieBrady · 24-11-2018 05:37PM

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

Does this include all deaths in wars?

Absolutely.

I have no time for any army doing it. Including Irish armies.

Nothing wrong with respectful remembrance.
This obscene reveling in ignominious death and death because of criminal behaviour is wrong on all levels.

corner of hells · 24-11-2018 05:38PM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Yep...if you object to unseemly war mongering and triumphalism, you must be a Brit hating shinner. :rolleyes:

Well done you!

War mongering and triumphalism ?
Your stuck on loop bleating away the same mindless rubbish.

FrancieBrady · 24-11-2018 05:41PM

corner of hells wrote: »

War mongering and triumphalism ?
Your stuck on loop bleating away the same mindless rubbish.

Because that is what I see.

People reveling in massive death and carnage.
Not a word of criticism for those who sent them to their deaths either.

corner of hells · 24-11-2018 05:43PM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Because that is what I see.

People reveling in massive death and carnage.
Not a word of criticism for those who sent them to their deaths either.

No Francie , its represents a dejected looking soul returning home , no revelling nor glory.

FrancieBrady · 24-11-2018 05:47PM

corner of hells wrote: »

No Francie , its represents a dejected looking soul returning home , no revelling nor glory.

Yes, and the rather creepy war mongers think there is gallantry and honour in that. You know the spiel...'the great sacrifice' etc etc.

mick malones mauser · 24-11-2018 05:51PM

If the British (and German French etc) governments issued apologies on the 11th November EVERY year for their part in sending millions of young men and boys to their deaths that would be a wonderful gesture.
I would doff my cap to that

Lefty Bicek · 24-11-2018 05:53PM

corner of hells wrote: »

Fawning and pandering to Unionism ?
You are joking .
A sculpture of a dejected looking figure representing a soldier returning from a war that ended 100 hundred years ago and that's pandering to Unionism ?

What pisses you off is you associate the Brodie tin hat with the British Army and can't see beyond that.

And that's what depresses you ?

There IS nothing to see beyond that.

Putting that statue in that particular place was a stupid thing to do. Irresponsible to put someone's private property in jeopardy like that anyway.

If you read the thread properly you will see here and there an idiotic delusion that it is some 'universal soldier'. It is no such thing.

It is completely pandering to siege-mentality unionism to normalise the presence of an army that disgraced itself here, time after time.

Silly sentimentalism that this is remembering the fallen... head in the clouds stuff.

Why not just remember the glorious dead at home in private ?

'Look how mature we are in our very public displays of inclusiveness.' Clowns.

'The Haunting Soldier' sculpture vandalised

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