Diesel to contain 10% fame from 1/1/19

Circle K responded to say they are continuing with B7 diesel

Are people happy now that it's sticking with B7? Answer about how the % can increase and stay B7 seems to be here - https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/question/2018-01-17/170/?highlight%5B0%5D=biodiesel#pq-answers-169_170_171_172

My reading of it is the % is about certs held, not the % of the mix and it means once the biofuel they get is produced from wastes or residues they can hit 11% in certs per 100 litres of fuel without making it B10 blend.

And maybe through additional, seperate, B10 pumps too...

mikeecho wrote: »

Circle K circular.

I've yellowed out sections that have internal contact details

This is nearly the exact wording the owner of my local Texaco got as well..no other info only that fame was being introduced in January and he would need to increase checks on his tanks for water ingress.
He said he will let me know when they clarified matters with him..

From reading the responses to the consultation document it looks like they are using double certificate biofuels to make the obligations. From maxols response.

https://www.dccae.gov.ie/en-ie/news-and-media/consultations/Documents/11/submissions/Reply%20from%20Maxol.pdf

“Unleaded Petrol with 5% ethanol and Diesel with up to 7% biodiesel. This is reflected in both the national import infrastructure where the terminals in Dublin, Whitegate, Foynes and Galway have dedicated tanks for two grades of road transport fuels (in addition to storage for Gas Oil and Kerosene) and in the forecourt infrastructure where storage tanks and retail pumps are also dedicated to two grades, petrol and diesel. While some forecourts have the capacity to supply a third grade it is by no means universal.”

“Blending biodiesel at a rate of 7% throughout the year is the only way the industry can meet the proposed 10% obligation. This rate complies with the specification set out in the Fuels Quality Directive and the applicable EN Standards however two points should be noted
1. To meet the obligation only double cert material can be used i.e. biodiesel produced from e.g. Used Cooking Oil making it more difficult to ensure the quality of the biodiesel is suited to Winter blending and is compliant with the EN14214 standard.
2. The blend rate is at the very top of the permitted limits.”

BMW got back to me as well to say they were unaware of the fuel blend changing to anything above B7.

easyvision wrote: »

This is what I don't get, it must be phased on?? That would mean hundreds of millions of cars would not be able to be used over night? Seems odd. Is it like leaded petrol, slowly discontinued to allow people to change cars? Also cars they are still selling now would not be able to be used within a few weeks? Buy a 191 diesel and not be able to use it? Seems like something is getting missed here

Its got to be a disincentive to buy a newer diesel powered car from now on, Im already looking at any new or newer diesel on the road and thinking the person is mad unless its a work vehicle.

I dont think anything is getting missed as the powers that be dont give a damn what anyones vehicle is worth or if the value of it just dropped through the floor even if you just bought it last week (or much else about ordinary people).

While I dont think (in hindsight mainly) that diesel should have been marketed as the ICE of choice for family cars with lower mileage usage, at this point I think its established what the faults are if you arent doing big mileage and the downsides regardless of mileage.

Diesel vehicles are being made more difficult to sell secondhand as they must have depreciated now with any potential buyer knowing any future changes will be against them unless the vehicle is already on the cheaper/older/higher mileage end of the scale, the only option is to sell now to anyone that might be living in a cave (before they turn up to eat your gooey brains anyway) and not be aware of the way things are changing or drive them on until they have had their use and the depreciation matches the usage/mileage, so anyone that drives for the tax cost and does low or very low mileage could be waiting a long time or never, and anyone that drives bigger mileage might break even.
I think this is definitely where the next phased increases of motor tax will come in to counter the low C02/buy cars to keep the economy merrygo round going incentive ten years ago, probably in bigish steps The only reason it hasnt as FG are just about clinging on, so politically I think you can see how FG will play this themselves (and FF would just do the exact same to us), they are now promising the earth regarding personal taxes/USC and stringing us along with promises of what they will do, when they should have done it all by now USC/housing/hospitals etc, when they dont get in the next time, just before they leave they will give the electorate a right kick in the goolies by upping motor tax on diesels as they wont be in for a long time to come, it will all be forgotten as we drive on into an electric powered utopia.

Ive a much older pre dpf diesel engine and I consider it will probably fare out better than newer diesels and Im not losing anything in terms of depreciation at this stage, personally interested in an EV myself at this point for running costs and other reasons, but for cost of replacement reasons/personal finances at the moment, looks like I'll drive mine on until it fails the NCT. At least if I still have it come the time of the Apocalypse/feasting on each others brains, I'm sure I can put anything it to burn to stay mobile.

I interpret it as nothing changes for your diesel car in Jan 2019. The existing fuel will continue as normal. B10 will not be forced on anyone.

Looking at the DCCAE consulation document they also ask for input on this question....


Since the consulation didnt mention anything about B10 I take it that B10 is not happening.

What is happening is an increase to the biofuel obligation rate going to 10% but that doesnt mean that B10 is being forced on every diesel car. They are different things.

The thread title is false, imo.

mikeecho wrote: »

That's fine, but why is Circle K telling it's station operaters , what has been posted in post#1

The screenshots you posted recently dont say anything about B10.

They say that the government is increasing the biofuel obligation rate to 10% and they give guidance on how to monitor tanks that have a biofuel mix (which they already have today).

They dont say anywhere that B10 is now the defacto standard for diesel for cars come Jan 2019.

I agree they could have worded it a bit more clearly but it was never going to be a case that B10 was going to be forced into everyones cars. At best it will mean they provide a B10 pump for new cars that can take it.

Got a reply from Maxol

Thank you for contacting Maxol HQ.


Maxol only supplies fuel that complies with the international fuel standards of EN228 for petrol and EN590 for diesel. These standards were agreed between motor manufacturers and the petroleum industry and allow the blending of up to 5% ethanol in petrol (E5) and up to 7% biodiesel in diesel (B7).


We have no plans to supply fuel that exceeds this limit as most of our diesel customers have vehicles that are only designed to run on B7.


The legislation you referred to in your email is the Biofuel Obligation Scheme (BOS) which places an obligation on fuel suppliers to ensure that a portion of the petrol and diesel they place on the market in Ireland is produced from renewable sources, e.g. ethanol and biodiesel. The scheme is the responsibility of the Department of Communications, Climate Action and Environment, who have increased the biofuel obligation to 10% by volume with effect from 1st January 2019.


The BOS legislation is quite complex however it does offer alternative methods to comply with the legislation without exceeding the blend limits of 5% ethanol in petrol and 7% biodiesel in diesel. This allows us to meet our BOS obligation while continuing to supply the fuel our customers want.


I hope this answers your query and apologies for the long winded reply,



Kind regards,

Bold emphasis is mine.

Basically no change to the diesel offered and the legislation has enough leeway that they can meet the requirements by other means.

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

Got a reply from Maxol



Bold emphasis is mine.

Basically no change to the diesel offered and the legislation has enough leeway that they can meet the requirements by other means.

Good work - That puts this to bed.

mikeecho wrote: »

That's good news.

But where is the extra bio content actually going?




What are the other means ?

Genuinely curious

It means the B7 blend will have more biodiesel from waste sources such as cooking oil and tallow, as they will receive double the certificates that sources such as palm oil will receive.

The requirement is for 10% of the certificates to come from non-fossil sources, not 10% of the actual fuel blend.

The Tetrarch wrote: »

My Mazda owners manual says "The use of E10 fuel with 10% ethanol in Europe is safe for your vehicle".
But I do not know if this is what will be in the forecourt pumps.

what is in the pumps will not change

n97 mini wrote: »

It means the B7 blend will have more biodiesel from waste sources such as cooking oil and tallow, as they will receive double the certificates that sources such as palm oil will receive.

The requirement is for 10% of the certificates to come from non-fossil sources, not 10% of the actual fuel blend.

In a nutshell.