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Diesel to contain 10% fame from 1/1/19

12467

Comments

  • #92
    gctest50
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,597 ✭✭✭gctest50


    mikeecho wrote: »
    Lets hear what the fuel suppliers have to say, and will they stand over their product.

    will they stand over their product. ?

    Why wouldn't they stand over their product ?

    It will be what "it says on the tin" - B10

    much same as it has been the last almost 10 years - 5, 6, 7 %


  • #93
    mikeecho
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,353 ✭✭✭mikeecho


    gctest50 wrote: »
    will they stand over their product. ?

    Why wouldn't they stand over their product ?

    It will be what "it says on the tin" - B10

    much same as it has been the last almost 10 years - 5, 6, 7 %
    But will they say that it is completely safe for all diesel engines.

    Will they stand over their product, and compensate in the event of any damage.


  • #94
    gctest50
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,597 ✭✭✭gctest50


    mikeecho wrote: »
    But will they say that it is completely safe for all diesel engines.

    Will they stand over their product, and compensate in the event of any damage.

    They won't say anything, they will say

    We have Unleaded or we have B10

    Please check with your car dealer if you are unsure which to choose


    We only have 2 "channels" here so it'll be like this :


    ( or you can get a Jumbo Breakfast roll and ponder "Why didn't i buy a Citroen ? "

    ...... or a Peugeot or a Renault, or a Dacia - y'know something compatible with modern fuel )




    8ALfhaj.jpg


  • #95
    _Kaiser_
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,293 ✭✭✭✭_Kaiser_


    On the phone so searching isn't ideal but found this statement from VW back in 2010..

    http://www.volkswagen.co.uk/assets/common/pdf/general/biodiesel.pdf

    Not good reading...

    Volkswagen Group does not approve the use of B30 Biodiesel in any of its vehicles. B30 Biodiesel is a blend of 70%
    Fossil fuel and 30% Biofuel, derived from Fatty Acid Methyl Ester (FAME). The use of this fuel in Volkswagen Group
    vehicles may invalidate the engine and exhaust system warranty

    Doesn't make it clear what the effect of B10 is, but it does say only approved up to 7%


  • #96
    Twenty Grand
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,452 ✭✭✭Twenty Grand


    Another nail in the coffin of dirty diesel if true.

    Zero chance of any drop in petrol tax or any grant to convert from diesel to electric (not that any current electrics would suit most diesel drivers)


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  • #97
    mikeecho
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,353 ✭✭✭mikeecho


    Twenty Grand wrote: »
    Another nail in the coffin of dirty diesel if true.

    Zero chance of any drop in petrol tax or any grant to convert from diesel to electric (not that any current electrics would suit most diesel drivers)

    This change in fuel will actually add 2￠per L


  • #98
    gctest50
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,597 ✭✭✭gctest50


    mikeecho wrote: »
    This change in fuel will actually add 2￠per L


    That levy is on fuel since 2010 :


    Under the terms of the National Oil Reserves Agency Act 2007 (Returns and Biofuel Levy) Regulations 2010, a Biofuel Levy of 2.00 cent per litre is payable on the sales of all Biofuels into the market with effect from 1st July 2010.


  • #99
    mikeecho
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,353 ✭✭✭mikeecho


    gctest50 wrote: »
    That levy is on fuel since 2010 :


    Under the terms of the National Oil Reserves Agency Act 2007 (Returns and Biofuel Levy) Regulations 2010, a Biofuel Levy of 2.00 cent per litre is payable on the sales of all Biofuels into the market with effect from 1st July 2010.

    It's not the levy I'm referring to.. fame is liable to Fuel duty &vat and is more expensive to make/process.

    Thus.. it'll cost approx 2￠ more /L , just like the 2￠ increase 2yrs ago when it went from b5 to b7/8


  • #100
    gctest50
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,597 ✭✭✭gctest50


    It'd be up and down anyway :


    zZGFlmz.png


  • #101
    novarock
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,132 ✭✭✭novarock


    According to a quick Google search the organic compound can be made with palm oil. I would be very disappointed if the idea of reducing pollution and increasing taxes came at the cost of forests in other countries.


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  • #102
    harr
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,512 ✭✭✭harr


    Was speaking to local texico owner this morning when in the shop , he has being given very little info on all of this.
    He had been told his holding tanks will need to be inspected every 3 months instead of the usual 6 because new B10 has a high possibility of attracting moisture.
    He was told most modern cars will be fine and it’s only older models that might have a problem.
    His own car and mine clearly state nothing higher than B7.


  • #103
    km79
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 48,490 ✭✭✭✭km79


    harr wrote: »
    Was speaking to local texico owner this morning when in the shop , he has being given very little info on all of this.
    He had been told his holding tanks will need to be inspected every 3 months instead of the usual 6 because new B10 has a high possibility of attracting moisture.
    He was told most modern cars will be fine and it’s only older models that might have a problem.
    His own car and mine clearly state nothing higher than B7.

    Define older .......


  • #104
    cefh17
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 990 ✭✭✭cefh17


    How does one check what's compatible with their car?


  • #105
    Damien360
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,248 ✭✭✭Damien360


    novarock wrote: »
    According to a quick Google search the organic compound can be made with palm oil. I would be very disappointed if the idea of reducing pollution and increasing taxes came at the cost of forests in other countries.

    Much more than that. It is produced at a cost to food production. Fields are diverted to use as fuel instead of food thereby increasing food costs due to lack of supply (has to be said that is the most cynical view). It needs a lot of fields to produce a small portion of fuel product.

    Each country is expected to produce its own so it does not just effect other countries as you say in your post.

    The message seems to have changed as I remember a BBC documentary on this but I cannot find it now focusing on food issues relating to this but their current message is using used chip fat (sunflower oil) as the FAME material.

    RTE are waiting for the government to tell them what to say !

    The guys in the farming forum would be good to get into this discussion as they would have better knowledge on the production side of things.


  • #106
    Damien360
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,248 ✭✭✭Damien360


    cefh17 wrote: »
    How does one check what's compatible with their car?

    Your car manual. Looking at the list, if it's not French, it's not compatible.


  • #107
    novarock
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,132 ✭✭✭novarock


    Damien360 wrote: »
    Much more than that. It is produced at a cost to food production. Fields are diverted to use as fuel instead of food thereby increasing food costs due to lack of supply (has to be said that is the most cynical view). It needs a lot of fields to produce a small portion of fuel product.

    Each country is expected to produce its own so it does not just effect other countries as you say in your post.

    The message seems to have changed as I remember a BBC documentary on this but I cannot find it now focusing on food issues relating to this but their current message is using used chip fat (sunflower oil) as the FAME material.

    RTE are waiting for the government to tell them what to say !

    The guys in the farming forum would be good to get into this discussion as they would have better knowledge on the production side of things.

    That's good to hear in a way. Would be fairly shocking to hear that in an attempt to use less of something bad, they were us8ng something nearly worse.

    None of the new VW engines go beyond B7. If it happens surely owners will have to be compensated.


  • #108
    drunkmonkey
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,106 ✭✭✭✭drunkmonkey


    From my reading of what's proposed this is only going to represent about 10% of the diesel coming into the country. I don't see where agreement has been reached on the % of diesel that will contain it.
    It's not an automatic switch for all diesel pumps to a 10% mix.


  • #109
    mirrorwall14
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,751 ✭✭✭mirrorwall14


    I know absolutely nothing about diesel cars but my father and father in law drive diesel cars. What exactly is the consequence of this? If they change all fuel will their cars kick the bucket?


  • #110
    spitonmedickie
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 324 ✭✭spitonmedickie


    On mobile so limited in what I can read but the original consultation document one January acknowledges the issues with B10 and seems to only refer to moving to B7 by 2020 (and the need for an accompanying public information campaign). Maybe someone more technically minded might be able to interpret this more https://s3-eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/govieassets/85/190618173743-Biofuels%20Obligation%20Scheme%20Consultation.pdf


  • #111
    Damien360
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,248 ✭✭✭Damien360


    spitonmedickie wrote: »
    On mobile so limited in what I can read but the original consultation document one January acknowledges the issues with B10 and seems to only refer to moving to B7 by 2020 (and the need for an accompanying public information campaign). Maybe someone more technically minded might be able to interpret this more https://s3-eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/govieassets/85/190618173743-Biofuels%20Obligation%20Scheme%20Consultation.pdf

    Interesting document that they recognise the effect of biofuel production on arable land effecting food production.

    A limit of 7% conversion of arable land for this purpose has been set by the EU. Waste oils are not included in this figure.

    There is no mention of car fuel whatsoever but discussion on the heating market. There would be no requirement for change of boilers based on this fuel.

    It mentions suppliers must meet obligations as a percent of fuel supplied to get to 10% (10 certificates approx 11% in real terms.....who makes these up) biofuel. But again no discussion on car fuel.

    The consultation is 7 weeks ending in January but everything points towards 2020. Has the internet created a storm in a teacup ?


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  • #112
    Damien360
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,248 ✭✭✭Damien360


    Question 5 is the very discussion here


  • #113
    The Bishop Basher
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,279 ✭✭✭The Bishop Basher


    drunkmonkey wrote: »
    From my reading of what's proposed this is only going to represent about 10% of the diesel coming into the country. I don't see where agreement has been reached on the % of diesel that will contain it.
    It's not an automatic switch for all diesel pumps to a 10% mix.
    spitonmedickie wrote: »
    On mobile so limited in what I can read but the original consultation document one January acknowledges the issues with B10 and seems to only refer to moving to B7 by 2020 (and the need for an accompanying public information campaign).

    I'm really glad you guys showed up.. :D


  • #114
    emo72
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,413 ✭✭✭emo72


    So we're good then?


  • #115
    lenny palmer
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 128 ✭✭lenny palmer


    I'm having a look at my manual now. As far as I can send it says nothing about B7 or B10. The only reference to biodiesel says that EN 590 or DIN 51628 can be used. Not sure if I'm covered or not. Anyone know


  • #116
    _Kaiser_
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,293 ✭✭✭✭_Kaiser_


    lenny palmer wrote: »
    I'm having a look at my manual now. As far as I can send it says nothing about B7 or B10. The only reference to biodiesel says that EN 590 or DIN 51628 can be used. Not sure if I'm covered or not. Anyone know

    EN 590 = B7 from what the VW link I found last night says.

    So probably not covered then.


  • #117
    _Kaiser_
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,293 ✭✭✭✭_Kaiser_


    Regardless of whether its 6 weeks away or 12 months away, increasing beyond 7% would seem to be a big problem for most of the current diesel fleet in Ireland - as in virtually every mainstream model and brand on the road today won't support it from a warranty and compatibility perspective.

    So even if your car will run on 10%, you're on your own if it does cause problems.

    Unless the government plan to offer a massive incentive scheme to get these cars off the road first, there's no way this could be rolled out as the new standard.

    Would be nice to get the official view on it but I don't really have the time to play phone tennis with the Department of the Environment and staff who'll likely be as confused as the rest of us.


  • #118
    mickdw
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,918 ✭✭✭✭mickdw


    There surely has to be a misunderstanding somewhere.
    Are we saying that from January coming that the diesel available from all pumps is B10 and that nearly every diesel car on the market is not approved to run on it?
    That cannot be right.
    The manufacturers would be sued all over the shop if they have continued to sell cars that are not compatible with fuel available. After all, this must be planning for some time.


  • #119
    theguzman
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,085 ✭✭✭theguzman


    Wouldn't it make much more sense to get 10% of new car sales to be Electric Vehicles and subsidise and offer conversion grants for LPG; besides doing something so stupid as this thing. If it damages my car I for one will personally sue whoever introduced this.


  • #120
    FaganJr
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 666 ✭✭✭FaganJr


    I really doubt the government would bring this in without consultation?
    And effects are negligible or exaggerated.

    Another storm in a tea cup to wind people up.


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  • #121
    theguzman
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,085 ✭✭✭theguzman


    FaganJr wrote: »
    I really doubt the government would bring this in without consultation?
    And effects are negligible or exaggerated.

    Another storm in a tea cup to wind people up.


    We are under EU/German rule so if this is coming from Brussels the Irish vassal Govt are legally bound to introduce it, we do not have a say on the matter.


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