removing a radiator??

LazySamaritan · 13-11-2018 10:24am #1

I have very, very basic knowledge regarding plumbing. Anything I know I saw my father do and I've come to discover he had some very contrary and awkward ways of doing things. So I'm also worried I'm doing a job wrong.:rolleyes:

I have a small box room. I have been considering getting rid of the radiator to set up a computer desk in that part of the room. The radiator is old and has some rust - but isn't leaking.

I know how to remove the radiator, drain it etc. but capping the pipes under floor has me worried - first that I might not do it right

but also even if I did that it could later cause problems and might need to be accessed. I'm putting in a new floor and don't what to have to pull that up.

Is it better to just put in a new radiator or leave the pipes sticking up from the floor? Or am I worrying about something silly?

Seve OB · 13-11-2018 10:25am

LazySamaritan wrote: »

I have very, very basic knowledge regarding plumbing. Anything I know I saw my father do and I've come to discover he had some very contrary and awkward ways of doing things. So I'm also worried I'm doing a job wrong.:rolleyes:

I have a small box room. I have been considering getting rid of the radiator to set up a computer desk in that part of the room. The radiator is old and has some rust - but isn't leaking.

I know how to remove the radiator, drain it etc. but capping the pipes under floor has me worried - first that I might not do it right but also even if I did that it could later cause problems and might need to be accessed. I'm putting in a new floor and don't what to have to pull that up.

Is it better to just put in a new radiator or leave the pipes sticking up from the floor? Or am I worrying about something silly?

Get a plumber?

LazySamaritan · 13-11-2018 10:36am

Seve OB wrote: »

Get a plumber?

This is the DIY section.

Getting a plumber is not DIY.

listermint · 13-11-2018 11:54am

Dont remove radiators from any rooms ever - unless its to put a doorway or something on an external wall. Even in that case have the radiator moved.

If you want to refurbish it you could simply sand it down - including rusty parts and repaint it.

You can also get a new radiator (reasonably cheaply oddly enough) and replace it.

This would involve turning off the Taps on both sides of the existing rad (turning them clockwise till they stop.

Placing a shallow tray under one side and then loosen the Nut between the radiator and the tap Valve. This will drain the water into the tray - may need more than 1 tray as the radiator is filled with water. It can be black (thats normal)

once water stops, loosen the other nut on the other side to free the rad from the Tap Valves and lift it up and off the wall.

For the new on, do the opposite - tighten all the valves , and you may have to put in new radiator hangers that come with new rad as old ones might be out of place.

Turn on the valves when all tight and mounted - bleed the radiator.

Turn the heating on for a bit then bleed again.

LazySamaritan · 13-11-2018 1:09pm

listermint wrote: »

Dont remove radiators from any rooms ever - unless its to put a doorway or something on an external wall. Even in that case have the radiator moved.

Why should it not be done?

listermint · 13-11-2018 1:49pm

LazySamaritan wrote: »

Why should it not be done?

you removing the only heat source from a room.

That makes the space cold and open to damp.

and will have a knock on effect to rooms that border it.

Its a nonsense solution and quite damaging.

LazySamaritan · 13-11-2018 2:08pm

listermint wrote: »

you removing the only heat source from a room.

That makes the space cold and open to damp.

and will have a knock on effect to rooms that border it.

Its a nonsense solution and quite damaging.

I want to put the room to use and would have an electric heater in the cold months. At the moment the room is rarely used and the radiator has never been on. It was the same with the previous owner. Not an exaggeration - never been on and there is no issues that I know off.

As I said my knowledge is basic. What is the knock on effect? What should I look for in other rooms?

listermint · 13-11-2018 2:43pm

Ok take it out so.

..............................................

Lumen · 13-11-2018 4:46pm

Why would you take a radiator out with the intention of using an electric heater?

I can only imagine because you're solely occupying that room and don't want the heating on in the rest of the house. In which case zoning is a better idea.

leinster93 · 13-11-2018 5:08pm

LazySamaritan wrote: »

I have very, very basic knowledge regarding plumbing. Anything I know I saw my father do and I've come to discover he had some very contrary and awkward ways of doing things. So I'm also worried I'm doing a job wrong.:rolleyes:

I have a small box room. I have been considering getting rid of the radiator to set up a computer desk in that part of the room. The radiator is old and has some rust - but isn't leaking.

I know how to remove the radiator, drain it etc. but capping the pipes under floor has me worried - first that I might not do it right but also even if I did that it could later cause problems and might need to be accessed. I'm putting in a new floor and don't what to have to pull that up.

Is it better to just put in a new radiator or leave the pipes sticking up from the floor? Or am I worrying about something silly?

I would

1. drain the heating system
2. Disconnect radiator (Empty water from radiator into bucket)

3. Put towel around pipes to dry up excess water
4. Hacksaw the copper pipe or cut using pipe cutter (https://www.amazon.co.uk/Silverline-245067-Quick-Pipe-Cutter/dp/B000O55KW4/ref=sr_1_1?s=diy&ie=UTF8&qid=1542125968&sr=1-1&refinements=p_72%3A419153031

to be beneath wooden floor level (Pipe should be cut horizontal/level).

You want copper pipe below floor level in order to install new floor.
You will have to take up a section of the floorboard around both pipes so you can cut it beneath the floor and cap it.

Two ways to cap the copper pipe. Compression fitting with olive or cap and seal it with gas burner/solder. Putting back and securing the section of floorboard is the tricky bit. Sometimes easier to take the whole floorboard up...
For capping using gas burner you need a cap example https://www.goodwins.ie/products/Solder-Blank-1-2-inch-T51.html?filter_set[]=1891,1900,1946&page=2

Easier and cheaper to use stop end compression fitting
https://www.goodwins.ie/products/Compression-Stop-End-1-2-inch-351.html?filter_set[]=1891,1900,1973

LazySamaritan · 13-11-2018 8:21pm

Lumen wrote: »

Why would you take a radiator out with the intention of using an electric heater?

I can only imagine because you're solely occupying that room and don't want the heating on in the rest of the house. In which case zoning is a better idea.

The radiator is in the way of the ideal place for the computer desk and other things I want to set up. The radiator wouldn't be on anyway and rather than work around it I figured just get rid of it. The electric heater would just be there for if it gets cold while I'm in there.

EDIT: No I'll just be using the room for an hour or two each evening and there are others in the house. So zoning is not necessary. It is just that the radiator is in the way and not used in that room so I figured it was better to get rid of it.

listermint mentioned it could lead to problems in other rooms but that radiator has never been used and I haven't noticed anything but I maybe there is and I just don't see it.

LazySamaritan · 13-11-2018 8:27pm

leinster93 wrote: »

I would

1. drain the heating system
2. Disconnect radiator (Empty water from radiator into bucket)

3. Put towel around pipes to dry up excess water
4. Hacksaw the copper pipe or cut using pipe cutter (https://www.amazon.co.uk/Silverline-245067-Quick-Pipe-Cutter/dp/B000O55KW4/ref=sr_1_1?s=diy&ie=UTF8&qid=1542125968&sr=1-1&refinements=p_72%3A419153031

to be beneath wooden floor level (Pipe should be cut horizontal/level).

You want copper pipe below floor level in order to install new floor.
You will have to take up a section of the floorboard around both pipes so you can cut it beneath the floor and cap it.

Two ways to cap the copper pipe. Compression fitting with olive or cap and seal it with gas burner/solder. Putting back and securing the section of floorboard is the tricky bit. Sometimes easier to take the whole floorboard up...
For capping using gas burner you need a cap example https://www.goodwins.ie/products/Solder-Blank-1-2-inch-T51.html?filter_set[]=1891,1900,1946&page=2

Easier and cheaper to use stop end compression fitting
https://www.goodwins.ie/products/Compression-Stop-End-1-2-inch-351.html?filter_set[]=1891,1900,1973

I can't open those Goodwin links - something up with my internet because random websites won't load for me.

I think I'm up to the job you lay out here but is there a chance in the future that these could leak (even if I got in a plumber). Would it be wiser to not cap them under the floor or am I worried about nothing?

leinster93 · 14-11-2018 11:48am

LazySamaritan wrote: »

I can't open those Goodwin links - something up with my internet because random websites won't load for me.

I think I'm up to the job you lay out here but is there a chance in the future that these could leak (even if I got in a plumber). Would it be wiser to not cap them under the floor or am I worried about nothing?

For compression fittings you will need PTFE tape.

1. Put two loops of ptfe tape around thread of compression fitting

2. you will need two spanners - one to tighten nut and the other to hold while tightening

Here's a link on how it's done with compression fittings. https://youtu.be/rbAy3dcdSvk?t=180

I would go the gas lamp method as it is easier to get access to - re no spanners needed. Soldering the cap on is better.
If either methods are done right you should test the system in any case. If done right they will hold.

Here's a link to how it's done with a gas burner https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hfY5vrPcBEk

Without such experience I would get a plumber to be sure it's done right. If you insist on doing it yourself, leave the floor open for a week to ensure all is ok.

Carpenter · 14-11-2018 11:51am

Leave the pipes there

tradesman · 15-11-2018 10:18am

Leave the pipes above ground. Cut off using proper pipe cutting tool then fit a push on stop cap. Make sure the pipe is cut properly or you will damage the ring inside the cap

Thomyokk · 15-11-2018 10:26am

tradesman wrote: »

Leave the pipes above ground. Cut off using proper pipe cutting tool then fit a push on stop cap. Make sure the pipe is cut properly or you will damage the ring inside the cap

Hi what type of tool and cap

I'm doing a similar job and pipes are close enough to wall

TheBoyConor · 15-11-2018 10:30am

Your proposal is madness op. How big can the radiator be that it would prevent putting in a computer desk. I think it's only an excuse. if you must utilise that space the get a desk where the back end of it will oversail the radiator. If need be you could even make a cutout on one side of the desk to accommodate the radiator.

Sure the room may not be in use at the moment and not be causing a problem but if you remove the only heat source and then use the room the moisture you exhale may condense on the cold surfaces and cause mold.

Did you ever think that the electric heater would actually occupy space also? And being free standing, it would probably be even more obtrusive than a wall mounted rad. They also would be a far greater fire hazard than a normal radiator.

If the radiator is bulky and in poor condition and you really want to change it then there are options for skinny radiators that won't take up as much space. But you're getting into a lot of work and effort just to save an inch or two of space.

I'd let it be OP. Anyone who comes into the room afterwards will be like "where the f* is the radiator gone?"
Anyway, it is your father's house so it's not for you to dictate what is done with the place.

b318isp · 15-11-2018 10:37am

Just to warn, to cut and blank the feed pipes, the system will need to be drained to below the floor level.

I'd suggest getting the experts in if you are not sure how to do this, or how to refill the system without airlocking.

Sleeper12 · 15-11-2018 10:38am

LazySamaritan wrote: »

This is the DIY section.

Getting a plumber is not DIY.

It is if you Dial It Yourself:pac:

Sleeper12 · 15-11-2018 10:47am

LazySamaritan wrote: »

I have very, very basic knowledge regarding plumbing. Anything I know I saw my father do and I've come to discover he had some very contrary and awkward ways of doing things. So I'm also worried I'm doing a job wrong.:rolleyes:

I have a small box room. I have been considering getting rid of the radiator to set up a computer desk in that part of the room. The radiator is old and has some rust - but isn't leaking.

I know how to remove the radiator, drain it etc. but capping the pipes under floor has me worried - first that I might not do it right but also even if I did that it could later cause problems and might need to be accessed. I'm putting in a new floor and don't what to have to pull that up.

Is it better to just put in a new radiator or leave the pipes sticking up from the floor? Or am I worrying about something silly?

Personally I think you'll need a rad there in winter

If removing you need to identify what type of pipes & what size. Half inch copper or qualpex are the norm but if your rad is from the 80s you could well discover that it's gun-barrel pipe. This is much harder for a non plumber to work with.

If the rad is upstairs you need to drain the heating system down for the whole upstairs inc the rad itself

If it's half inch copper or qualpex you just cut the pipe & pop on a textite or instantor blank. Then fill the system again

If it's gun barrel it's harder. These pipes are threaded & you can't just cut them & blank them

Thomyokk · 15-11-2018 10:52am

How do you get the water out of the ground floor pipework when there's no drain off point below it?

Sleeper12 · 15-11-2018 10:58am

Thomyokk wrote: »

How do you get the water out of the ground floor pipework when there's no drain off point below it?

Rad in hall. Close both valves. Open airvent. Get strong black bag & position under valve. Open nut between valve & pipe & carefully drain the water. Towels under wont hurt as water will be black & you dont want to stain carpet. Once rad is drained you can twist a valve so its facing away from the rad towards the front door. Attach a garden hose & open the valve. You will need to oped vents on udstairs rads to empty them

Thomyokk · 15-11-2018 11:19am

Sleeper12 wrote: »

Rad in hall. Close both valves. Open airvent. Get strong black bag & position under valve. Open nut between valve & pipe & carefully drain the water. Towels under wont hurt as water will be black & you dont want to stain carpet. Once rad is drained you can twist a valve so its facing away from the rad towards the front door. Attach a garden hose & open the valve. You will need to oped vents on udstairs rads to empty them

Ok but won't you still be left with the water at ground level in the pipes?

Sleeper12 · 15-11-2018 11:46am

I'm having trouble posting for some reason. I'll try again

To drain the ground floor you need to drain upstairs first. Then repeat what you have done. Open the downstairs valves & vents. This will drain the water downstairs

ArrBee · 15-11-2018 12:18pm

What about getting a different computer desk that "fits around" the rad?
This would allow you to just leave it there and put your desk against the wall without hassle...

I've been fortunate enough to be able to do that with my desk due to the design of it.
The rad is in use and keeps my toes warm too.

listermint · 15-11-2018 12:20pm

Sleeper12 wrote: »

I'm having trouble posting for some reason. I'll try again

To drain the ground floor you need to drain upstairs first. Then repeat what you have done. Open the downstairs valves & vents. This will drain the water downstairs

Or just drain the whole system from the boiler outlet valve

leinster93 · 15-11-2018 12:20pm

Thomyokk wrote: »

Hi what type of tool and cap

I'm doing a similar job and pipes are close enough to wall

I've used a mini-hack for tight spaces.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Metal-Hand-Jab-Hacksaw-Mini-Jr-Junior-Small-Saw-Electrician-Plumbing-Hand-Tools-/292665618762

Once cut use a file to smooth the edge of the copper pipe and the end stop will fit clean onto the pipe aswell as the olive.

Sleeper12 · 15-11-2018 12:27pm

listermint wrote:

Or just drain the whole system from the boiler outlet valve

This is higher than the ground floor rads if wall mounted boiler so won't drain ground floor

listermint · 15-11-2018 12:27pm

Sleeper12 wrote: »

This is higher than the ground floor rads if wall mounted boiler so won't drain ground floor

True true

Thomyokk · 15-11-2018 12:32pm

Sleeper12 wrote: »

I'm having trouble posting for some reason. I'll try again

To drain the ground floor you need to drain upstairs first. Then repeat what you have done. Open the downstairs valves & vents. This will drain the water downstairs

You're still left with the water at ground level in the pipework

Sleeper12 · 15-11-2018 12:47pm

Thomyokk wrote:

You're still left with the water at ground level in the pipework

This does not get drained as its below rad level & has no pressure. If you need to work on the pipes under the floor the water left in the pipes will drain onto the concrete under the floor and dry in a few hours

removing a radiator??

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