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How are more people not killed on our Roads

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    #32
    jimmycrackcorm
    Registered Users Posts: 14,331 ✭✭✭✭jimmycrackcorm


    imme wrote:
    Cyclists are cycling faster than ever, taking chances they shouldn't be taking, cycling on footpaths, cycling without lights or sufficient illumination.


    A lot of this is just perception. Lots of cyclists go through red lights but stand on the corner of westmoreland Street and the Quays and just marvel at the vast number of pedestrians playing chicken with buses turning that corner.


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    #33
    CelticRambler
    Registered Users Posts: 6,735 ✭✭✭CelticRambler


    AmberGold wrote: »
    How anyone driving with due care can hit a cyclist is beyond belief. We need to enforce serious penalties for using phones while driving. Put down the phones people!!


    Last weekend, I was a front seat passenger driving through Dublin and couldn't believe the number of cyclists dressed all in black, cycling without lights and holding a phone with one hand. In the rain. :eek: I used to be a Dublin cyclist before I emigrated, and would be again if I came back for any length of time, but think those eejits should be rounded up and have their bikes crushed. :mad: So yes, we (i.e. you lot still there!) need to demand serious penalties for that kind of stupidity - "on both sides" as DT would say.


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    #34
    AndrewJRenko
    Registered Users Posts: 28,592 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    imme wrote: »

    Cyclists are cycling faster than ever, taking chances they shouldn't be taking, cycling on footpaths, cycling without lights or sufficient illumination.

    Just for the record, it is more than 15 years since a cyclist killed a pedestrian here in Ireland. In that time, motorists have killed more than 4,000 people.

    Check out the case reported in the press recently of the cyclist with lights, hi-vis and helmet who was knocked down and killed by a bus driver cutting a corner on the wrong side of the road.


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    #35
    YFlyer
    Registered Users Posts: 9,717 ✭✭✭YFlyer


    Dakota Dan wrote: »
    What made you think he was drunk or that it was even a he?

    Did say scumbag as well.


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    #36
    Graces7
    Registered Users Posts: 32,634 ✭✭✭✭Graces7


    My last nearest miss was on a country road when a small dog ran out and chased the car. Thankfully the car behind me was a proper distance away. Dratted dogs loose in rural areas .


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    #37
    TheQuietFella
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,857 ✭✭✭TheQuietFella


    I was on a bus to Cork recently and just as the driver was preparing to pull into his bay a female pedestrian was taking a short cut through it! She just stepped from the footpath and walked across!


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    #38
    jon1981
    Registered Users Posts: 4,359 ✭✭✭jon1981


    Road accidents account for 2.2% deaths in the world. That number is mind boggling.

    In 1999 it was the 7th leading cause of mortality in the world, now it's the 3rd

    Source https://www.google.ie/

    Admin note: Please use direct links so you don't accidentally the whole page.


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    #39
    paw patrol
    Registered Users Posts: 2,314 ✭✭✭paw patrol


    enough attention isn't given to survivor statistics.
    Many survivors live very limited lives after. brain damaged or in a wheelchair, unable to work, living on state support.

    I know there was an ad campaign a while back but it's the only one I recall. The damage and life change to survivors should be broadcast continuously

    Imagine relying on the HSE for your treatment forever...


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    #40
    imme
    Registered Users Posts: 3,200 ✭✭✭imme


    ahnowbrowncow wrote: »
    How do you they're doing these things more than before? People have always made bad decisions.
    It is more rush rush and more push push from what I can see.
    Delivery drivers being pushed, all manner of drivers rushing.
    People taking dangerous chances.

    People less likely to be polite on the roads as well.


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    #41
    imme
    Registered Users Posts: 3,200 ✭✭✭imme


    Richard Hillman wrote: »
    Health and safety gone mad, is what it is.

    "What" h&s gone mad is what what was is?


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    #42
    imme
    Registered Users Posts: 3,200 ✭✭✭imme


    paleoperson wrote: »
    Beyond belief? Hardly, with what I see cyclists doing sometimes I'm slightly shocked I haven't seen them going under a bus or similar already.

    Tiny little gaps and they're willing to cycle through them based on the theory that shur the car probably won't move a bit more to the left in the lane, saving a half a minute.
    Shocking what some cyclists do alright.
    Is segregation the answer.

    Why do they take such dangerous chances.

    Should cyclists be forced to interact with cars trucks and buses the way they commonly do in urban environments.


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    #43
    jon1981
    Registered Users Posts: 4,359 ✭✭✭jon1981


    imme wrote: »
    It is more rush rush and more push push from what I can see.
    Delivery drivers being pushed, all manner of drivers rushing.
    People taking dangerous chances.

    People less likely to be polite on the roads as well.

    This is true, last second turns without indicating, switching lanes without looking...etc.. rushing from the school gate drop off to work...

    A guy i work with took 2 hours on a very wet morning this week to drive from stillorgan to the O'Connell street. The mind boggles... the car should just not be an option.

    For many, this kind of traffic nightmare would lead to rash decision making and chance taking just to gain 1 car space on the road.


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    #44
    arybvtcw0eolkf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 24,878 ✭✭✭✭arybvtcw0eolkf


    marketty wrote: »
    Just imagine what we could do if the laws on phone use were actually enforced, we'd surely get it below 100 deaths.

    I think we would too.

    I ride a motorbike, or sometimes cycle to work.

    If I'm on the motorbike I travel the M50 and try as I might I lose count of the number of people I see texting, talking into their phones or browsing social media.

    My take on it is if you really want to kill yourself then go right ahead, I couldn't give a fvck. You're the selfish one not me.

    But don't kill me or my family and friends you selfish little prick.

    And its so easy to see a driver who is texting, they can't keep a straight line, can't keep a constant speed. When the traffic stops and starts again it they're leaving a 100 meter gap because they haven't noticed everyone around them has moved off.

    I wonder how many deaths and serious injury is caused by phone use annually.

    Drives me insane.


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    #45
    Shenshen
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 9,453 Mod ✭✭✭✭Shenshen


    AmberGold wrote: »
    Motorists crashing into and running over cyclists causing serious injuries and deaths is increasing in Ireland.

    How anyone driving with due care can hit a cyclist is beyond belief. We need to enforce serious penalties for using phones while driving. Put down the phones people!!

    The one and only cycling accident I've had in my life I had this year in Ireland.
    I was coming down a steep hill, around a tight corner, and found myself face to face with an SUV on my side of the road. She was in the process of overtaking a dog walker on her side of the road.

    Looking at it now, I was actually bloody lucky I wasn't in my car coming down that road - I would have been going a lot faster than on the bike!


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    #46
    imme
    Registered Users Posts: 3,200 ✭✭✭imme


    CelticRambler wrote: »
    Last weekend, I was a front seat passenger driving through Dublin and couldn't believe the number of cyclists dressed all in black, cycling without lights and holding a phone with one hand. In the rain. :eek: I used to be a Dublin cyclist before I emigrated, and would be again if I came back for any length of time, but think those eejits should be rounded up and have their bikes crushed. :mad: So yes, we (i.e. you lot still there!) need to demand serious penalties for that kind of stupidity - "on both sides" as DT would say.

    Cyclists without any lights is plain crazy.
    It is akin to dicing with death.

    To have the bike taken away until they turn up with lights is the only answer.

    During the week i saw a young couple in urban Dublin on a busy road during lighting up time.

    They looked like South Americans.
    They had no lights, were wearing dark clothing, cycling 2 abreast.
    Traffic lights no problem, they can go through red lights, which they proceeded to do.

    They were beeped out of it but kept going as if they had a date with destiny or death!

    The amount of 'self employed' cycling slaves who deliver for food delivery companies who cycle without any lights is frightening.


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    #47
    facehugger99
    Registered Users Posts: 7,252 ✭✭✭facehugger99


    QuintusFabius wrote: »
    It's amazing all right, I often wonder the same about airline crashes, I would think there would be more ... maybe someone is looking out for us ?

    Yep, they're called engineers.


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    #48
    imme
    Registered Users Posts: 3,200 ✭✭✭imme


    AndrewJRenko wrote: »
    Just for the record, it is more than 15 years since a cyclist killed a pedestrian here in Ireland. In that time, motorists have killed more than 4,000 people.

    Check out the case reported in the press recently of the cyclist with lights, hi-vis and helmet who was knocked down and killed by a bus driver cutting a corner on the wrong side of the road.
    Cyclists shouldn't be going out of their way to kill pedestrians.
    I'm not saying that that's what you're saying.

    Cyclists should be respectful of pedestrians and vice versa.


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    #49
    jon1981
    Registered Users Posts: 4,359 ✭✭✭jon1981


    imme wrote: »
    Cyclists shouldn't be going out of their way to kill pedestrians.
    I'm not saying that that's what you're saying.

    Why say it? He's making the point that cyclists are not a threat and the stats support that.


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    #50
    imme
    Registered Users Posts: 3,200 ✭✭✭imme


    jon1981 wrote: »
    Why say it? He's making the point that cyclists are not a threat and the stats support that.

    Murder isn't the only result of cyclists using footpaths that they shouldn't be on for example.


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    #51
    dudara
    Registered Users Posts: 33,519 ✭✭✭✭dudara


    We’ve largely fixed the non-wearing of seat belts, we’ve largely fixed drunk driving, and excessive speeding isn’t too common either.

    The next thing that needs to get stamped out is mobile phone use. It’s fricking unbelievable how many people have a phone in their hand while driving. I honestly don’t understand these people’s major malfunction. For me it should be akin to drunk driving, if you’re caught, you lose your license for 3 months min.


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    #52
    Jakey Rolling
    Registered Users Posts: 918 ✭✭✭Jakey Rolling


    paw patrol wrote: »
    enough attention isn't given to survivor statistics.
    Many survivors live very limited lives after brain damaged or in a wheelchair, unable to work, living on state support

    This is my bugbear - the RSA and media are continually celebrating the reduction in deaths on our roads, but there's no mention of those left with life-changing injuries.

    As said earlier, advances in vehicle safety and medical care may be making accidents more survivable but has the accident rate actually gone down?

    Improvements in road infrastructure should help bring accident rates down, but we have more road users and more distractions due to the ubiquitous use of mobile phones while walking/cycling/driving.

    I'd be more interested to see a breakdown of numbers of reported accidents, deaths AND serious injuries year by year.

    100412.2526@compuserve.com



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    #53
    Dravokivich
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Music Moderators, Politics Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 22,360 CMod ✭✭✭✭Dravokivich


    AndrewJRenko wrote: »
    Just for the record, it is more than 15 years since a cyclist killed a pedestrian here in Ireland. In that time, motorists have killed more than 4,000 people.

    Check out the case reported in the press recently of the cyclist with lights, hi-vis and helmet who was knocked down and killed by a bus driver cutting a corner on the wrong side of the road.

    Pedestrian steps out into traffic, the motorist can't always be to blame. People need to cop on and be more responsible with the use of the roadways. Regardless of the death statistics.


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    #54
    AndrewJRenko
    Registered Users Posts: 28,592 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    Jakey Rolling wrote: »
    I'd be more interested to see a breakdown of numbers of reported accidents, deaths AND serious injuries year by year.
    The KSI (killed, seriously injured) states are all avaoiable on the RSA website.


    But can we stop calling them 'accidents' please? Gardai, RSA and pretty much any professional working in this area don't talk about 'accidents'. They talk about collisions or crashes.


    The 'accident' terminology was brought about in the early days of cars by the motor industry to get their customers off the hook for killing people. It is designed to make crashes seem unavoidable, like a natural phenomenon.



    In fact, the reverse is true - the vast majority of crashes and road deaths are completely avoidable. If we'd just slow down, put the phones down, put the pints/drugs down, we could make huge headway into our road death figures.

    dudara wrote: »
    We’ve largely fixed the non-wearing of seat belts, we’ve largely fixed drunk driving, and excessive speeding isn’t too common either.
    Not so sure about 3rd one - the vast majority of motorists break speed limits (while simultaneously whinging about cyclists who break red lights - go figure). Keep an eye on the Garda Twitter feed for the people they catch every day doing horrendous speeds. I don't do much driving outside of the city, but when I do, I am dangerously overtaken by drivers driving at dangerous speeds multiple times.

    dudara wrote: »
    The next thing that needs to get stamped out is mobile phone use. It’s fricking unbelievable how many people have a phone in their hand while driving. I honestly don’t understand these people’s major malfunction. For me it should be akin to drunk driving, if you’re caught, you lose your license for 3 months min.


    It's a huge problem, and the Gardai have basically given up on enforcing it. Along with those actively phoning and texting, I've noticed a trend of some drivers who basically just hold the phone in their hand at the wheel ALL the time. They're not looking at it, or on a hands-free call - but it's like they're afraid to put it down - FOMO. They keep it in a place that disables their ability to respond safely to an emergency, and where notifications will cause the maximum distraction.


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    #55
    AndrewJRenko
    Registered Users Posts: 28,592 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    Dravokivich wrote: »
    Pedestrian steps out into traffic, the motorist can't always be to blame. People need to cop on and be more responsible with the use of the roadways. Regardless of the death statistics.


    Every motorist is explicitly required by law to be able to stop within the distance they can see to be clear. Every motorists should be driving in a way that expects people to step out into traffic. They should be noting the presence, location and direction of those pedestrians. They should be noting the parked cars that the pedestrians may step out from.



    There is a huge responsibility in taking a tonne or two of metal out on a public road at 20-150 kmph. If they'd just put the phones away, they would probably notice these things.


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    #56
    Pinch Flat
    Registered Users Posts: 7,761 ✭✭✭Pinch Flat


    imme wrote: »
    Cyclists shouldn't be going out of their way to kill pedestrians.
    I'm not saying that that's what you're saying.

    Cyclists should be respectful of pedestrians and vice versa.

    Thing is though, last time a pedestrian was killed by a bike was 2003.

    Agree though on being respectful towards pedestrians - basic manners is missing in a lot of cases.


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    #57
    jon1981
    Registered Users Posts: 4,359 ✭✭✭jon1981


    Look this comes to do a basic fact, which road user can cause death? A motorist end of.

    A speed limit is not there just to piss drivers off, its there because if there is an "accident" , the possibility of death will be greatly reduced.

    Most drivers don't even obey the 50km limit...


    Btw i own and drive a car but also cycle daily.

    On Tuesday when we had the shocking weather, the surface water was unreal and made the cycle lanes in Dublin unusable. I took the centre lane in slow moving traffic with a 30kph limit to protect myself from a) unseen potholes in the deep water and b) to prevent some driver drowning me.

    But of course i was still beeped from behind despite being in the centre lane for no more than 20 seconds.

    What the **** is wrong with people.


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    #58
    AndrewJRenko
    Registered Users Posts: 28,592 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    imme wrote: »
    Murder isn't the only result of cyclists using footpaths that they shouldn't be on for example.
    Murder isn't really appropriate here as it implies premeditation. Motorists do kill three or four people each week here, but they don't murder them.

    Cyclists certainly should be respectful of pedestrians indeed, though let's not exaggerate the dangers to pedestrians from cyclists. Motorists kill about one pedestrian each week on the roads on average, just for context. I've never seen any study that shows injuries caused to pedestrians by cyclists are a significant issue - have you?

    And yes, vice versa is important too. One cyclist was killed as the result of the actions of a pedestrian in the Phoenix Park in recent years.
    imme wrote: »
    Cyclists without any lights is plain crazy.
    It is akin to dicing with death.

    To have the bike taken away until they turn up with lights is the only answer.

    During the week i saw a young couple in urban Dublin on a busy road during lighting up time.

    They looked like South Americans.
    They had no lights, were wearing dark clothing, cycling 2 abreast.
    Traffic lights no problem, they can go through red lights, which they proceeded to do.

    They were beeped out of it but kept going as if they had a date with destiny or death!

    The amount of 'self employed' cycling slaves who deliver for food delivery companies who cycle without any lights is frightening.
    Great that you managed to see all these 'invisible' cyclists! Certainly, it's not clever or legal to be cycling without lights after dark, but let's not over-exaggerate the risk.

    All but one of the relatively low number of cyclists killed on the roads last year were killed in daylight. I can't recall any case of cyclist death resulting from lack of lights in living memory, can you?

    And let's not miss the significant number of motorists out there with one broken headlight, or one or two broken brake lights, or no back lights at all because they don't know how their DRLs work.


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    #59
    Dakota Dan
    Registered Users Posts: 3,764 ✭✭✭Dakota Dan


    YFlyer wrote: »
    Did say scumbag as well.

    So many presumptions with little facts.


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    #60
    lalababa
    Registered Users Posts: 1,727 ✭✭✭lalababa


    The big reason for the reduction in deaths
    Is the new smartphone safe driving app.
    All the young ones and some of the oldies have it...it is all the rage. You have to hold it in front of you facing the road ahead , it
    Automatically sizes up dangerous situations and gives warnings in good time. You can be blissfully happy Facebooking or snapchatting away ('coz these social app. are clearly good for you) and if a collision is imminent your screen goes flashing red with a warning sirens and it promts you to return your eyes to the road. There is a cheaper version that just has a real time video of the road in the bottom right-hand corner.
    Deaths are reducing but I wonder are serious collisions?
    Also having a crash of ANY type will probably hit one hard in the pocket re insurance.
    As for the guards..... enforcement.....hhhmmmmm...no resources...no appetite.


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    #61
    punisher5112
    Registered Users Posts: 24,647 ✭✭✭✭punisher5112


    AndrewJRenko wrote: »
    Every motorist is explicitly required by law to be able to stop within the distance they can see to be clear. Every motorists should be driving in a way that expects people to step out into traffic. They should be noting the presence, location and direction of those pedestrians. They should be noting the parked cars that the pedestrians may step out from.



    There is a huge responsibility in taking a tonne or two of metal out on a public road at 20-150 kmph. If they'd just put the phones away, they would probably notice these things.



    Yes it states that but not much use to driver and pedestrian when they are walking correctly only then to change direction 10feet from a moving vehicle.

    I've been there and unfortunately had the experience of knocking a person down and bad at that.

    It was low speed, I had already reacted to her change in movement and sounded the horn but to no avail.
    She never once stopped or looked or reacted at all.

    She was somehow able to be saved even though they thought that wasn't possible.

    I will have to live with that due to her behavior.


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