Peter Casey believes Travellers should not be recognised as an ethnic minority

FrancieBrady · 03-11-2018 05:45PM

tayto lover wrote: »

You ok Hun?
A week later and you're still taking it badly.

No, I said it several times. Re: the Presidential election - this is one happy democrat, with the result.

Re: the prejudiced and intolerant out in the open now. Couldn't be any more delighted with that.

tayto lover · 03-11-2018 05:46PM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

No, I said it several times. Re: the Presidential election - this is one happy democrat, with the result.

Re: the prejudiced and intolerant out in the open now. Couldn't be any more delighted with that.

Not coming across like that Francie.
Not like that at all.

FrancieBrady · 03-11-2018 05:48PM

tayto lover wrote: »

Not coming across like that Francie.
Not like that at all.

Well, I have been enjoying the 'the whole establishment are agin us' stuff immensely, and predicted it was coming last night too.

Spanish Eyes · 03-11-2018 05:49PM

dxhound2005 wrote: »

The normal politicians are on to that already. You can report the cases you know about to the Gardai.

http://www.justice.ie/en/JELR/Pages/SP14000168

That PM Bill was not supported by Donoghue.

tayto lover · 03-11-2018 05:54PM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Well, I have been enjoying the 'the whole establishment are agin us' stuff immensely, and predicted it was coming last night too.

Me too. Especially the way the faux "offended" behaved around having no problems living next to halting sites. I enjoyed that.

Potential-Monke · 03-11-2018 05:54PM

Hey! For the people who are convinced he is using hate speech, as an ex-Garda who tried to get someone prosecuted for something similar (but had a lot more intention behind it) and it got nowhere. What Casey said is not, and will not, be seen as hate speech in the eyes of the law.

If he was standing on a stage, telling us how terrible travellers are and telling us what we should do about it, that is hate speech. He was asked a question, he answered it with his OPINION. That is not hate speech and never should be, as we are crossing a very fine line between opinions and hate.

tayto lover · 03-11-2018 05:56PM

Potential-Monke wrote: »

Hey! For the people who are convinced he is using hate speech, as an ex-Garda who tried to get someone prosecuted for something similar (but had a lot more intention behind it) and it got nowhere. What Casey said is not, and will not, be seen as hate speech in the eyes of the law.

If he was standing on a stage, telling us how terrible travellers are and telling us what we should do about it, that is hate speech. He was asked a question, he answered it with his OPINION. That is not hate speech and never should be, as we are crossing a very fine line between opinions and hate.

But shore most of us already knew that.
I hope the lad with the highest number of posts understand it now too.

HappyAsLarE · 03-11-2018 06:06PM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

No problem agreeing that some voted for Casey for genuine reasons.

I always knew that there was a nasty strain of prejudice extant in the country. No doubt Casey finally motivated them out to vote. And it is great to see them challenged and made to look like what they are. Prejudiced and intolerant.

Why is there prejudice?

FrancieBrady · 03-11-2018 06:10PM

Potential-Monke wrote: »

Hey! For the people who are convinced he is using hate speech, as an ex-Garda who tried to get someone prosecuted for something similar (but had a lot more intention behind it) and it got nowhere. What Casey said is not, and will not, be seen as hate speech in the eyes of the law.

If he was standing on a stage, telling us how terrible travellers are and telling us what we should do about it, that is hate speech. He was asked a question, he answered it with his OPINION. That is not hate speech and never should be, as we are crossing a very fine line between opinions and hate.

The Act disagrees with you.

He cannot hide behind 'it is just my opinion'.

tretorn · 03-11-2018 06:13PM

MFPM wrote: »

Short and sweet...I'll take that as a further indication of your cowardice to engage..

Are you suggesting that Judges imprison members of the settled community but let Travellers go? If not how do you suggest one community is accountable and one isn't. There's alot of settled people invoved in crime so clearly many don't agree with you about crime not paying!

Ah this old chestnut Tell me how do you account for a far higher number of people in Mountjoy with an address in Dublin 1 than Dublin 4? They're all settled, they all live in Dublin....what explains the difference?

Hold on - you just stated this 'If the proportion of settled people in prison was the same as the miniscule traveller population' - if the numbers are so high, how are so many 'untouchable' - it rather contradicts your theory doesn't it?

I asked you earlier not to make unfounded assertions about me and here you go again. I don't work for any NGO nor am I a Traveller, I'm a PAYE worker but I have a modicum of intellect and I'm able to see through bigotry when confronted by it - try it sometime, you could relieve yourself of a whole heap of hate if you tried.

No point in engaging with you, its like going round a carousel and arriving back at the same point.

If Margaret Cash has almost forty convictions to her name and she is still shopping in Penneys without actually handing over money to pay for her goods then Gods knows what crimes the travellers who are in prison have committed. They are well over represented in the prison population the same way as they are over represented in insurance fraud for example. Facts are facts so off with you and your nonsense.

You stilll havent told me why I should respect anything about the traveller culture or lifestyle, answers on a stamp will do.

FrancieBrady · 03-11-2018 06:15PM

HappyAsLarE wrote: »

Why is there prejudice?

Why indeed. I'm not qualified in that subject, but I would imagine that prejudice against any race or ethnicity grows around the spreading of mis-information and generalisation of issues surrounding them.

Take the 'travellers are basically people who camp on other people's land' one, that is not based on any facts at all as census material shows us that over 70% are in permanent housing. The myth persists because it is spread by people like Casey to an audience that clearly cannot think for themselves or access the actual factual data themselves.

tayto lover · 03-11-2018 06:15PM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

The Act disagrees with you.

He cannot hide behind 'it is just my opinion'.

The point is that he's not hiding behind anything.
I'm waiting to see what they'll charge him with but I think I'll have a long wait.
At least we know that they're investigating your complaint Francie.
How many years do you think he'll get?

tretorn · 03-11-2018 06:16PM

SafeSurfer wrote: »

Has anyone read the full page article in today’s Irish Times by Rosita Boland?
“Abusing Travellers is racism for liberals”

During the journalists visit to a traveller encampment a child brought in an anonymous note from a letter box which the journalist had to read because the parents couldn’t read. The note contained 2 cartridges and a threat that if they didn’t stop racing their horses on the road one of them would be killed.

One of the Travellers later said “we saw Peter Casey on the TV. We were shocked at what he said. He didn’t say anything good at all about us. He is definitely a racist”.

I read the article.

The note was full of spelling mistakes so the travellers probably posted it to themselves.

nullzero · 03-11-2018 06:19PM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

It isn't a problem for me, as I believe he indulged in hate speech and incited it. look at this thread as an example.

I think you're in a bit of a fantasy land. Casey wasn't exactly setting the world alight last night with his oration but he wasn't indulging in hate speech.

paleoperson · 03-11-2018 06:20PM

The whole point of racism is that a person is of a different race. You can't have racism against a minority group that is not of a different race.

I mean how ****ing braindead do you have to be to come up with that? You couldn't make this **** up.

This does not/should not get the dignity of an argument. There is no opinion and counteropinion to this, it's a joke.

FrancieBrady · 03-11-2018 06:21PM

nullzero wrote: »

I think you're in a bit of a fantasy land. Casey wasn't exactly setting the world alight last night with his oration but he wasn't indulging in hate speech.

No, he has been careful not to stray into it since. Someone may have had a word with him.

nullzero · 03-11-2018 06:21PM

paleoperson wrote: »

The whole point of racism is that a person is of a different race. You can't have racism against a minority group that is not of a different race.

I mean how ****ing braindead do you have to be to come up with that? You couldn't make this **** up.

Xenophobia is the correct term but it's a tricky one to get out when you're constantly outraged by everything.

HappyAsLarE · 03-11-2018 06:22PM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Why indeed. I'm not qualified in that subject, but I would imagine that prejudice against any race or ethnicity grows around the spreading of mis-information and generalisation of issues surrounding them.

Take the 'travellers are basically people who camp on other people's land' one, that is not based on any facts at all as census material shows us that over 70% are in permanent housing. The myth persists because it is spread by people like Casey to an audience that clearly cannot think for themselves or access the actual factual data themselves.

Haha good one. It exists because of people’s personal experience. At least that’s where mine was born.

tretorn · 03-11-2018 06:22PM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Show me where I called him a 'racist' then. (cue: more rants about me being tiresome and a huffy exit no doubt)

I do think those who indulge in hate speech should go to prison. That is my opinion too.

You are just giving an 'opinion' even though you seem to be carried away on delusions of it being some sort of creed or truth.

Do you include John Connors and Ms Cash in that.

Both have expressed hate towards those of us who dont hitch up our waggons and follow the stars.

nullzero · 03-11-2018 06:22PM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

No, he has been careful not to stray into it since. Someone may have had a word with him.

Someone? Reverse vampires perhaps?

Edward M · 03-11-2018 06:22PM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Why indeed. I'm not qualified in that subject, but I would imagine that prejudice against any race or ethnicity grows around the spreading of mis-information and generalisation of issues surrounding them.

Take the 'travellers are basically people who camp on other people's land' one, that is not based on any facts at all as census material shows us that over 70% are in permanent housing. The myth persists because it is spread by people like Casey to an audience that clearly cannot think for themselves or access the actual factual data themselves.

It may well be they camp mostly in govt, council or their own property mostly now, but that's not the case "ethnically".
They camped along roadsides and in or on other people's property.
How many travellers, at a guess just, camp or reside in or on their own property?

end of the road · 03-11-2018 06:23PM

Potential-Monke wrote: »

In your opinion it is. Would it not be a fact that his comments resonated with over 340k people in Ireland? Are you denying that Travellers are involved in crime? Their population to prison population ratio would indicate they are more likely to commit crime. Hate Speech is illegal, and rightly so, but he's not telling people what to believe, he made a comment which in itself is not racist. If he was telling everything that this is what they should believe, yes, that's hate speech, but he answered a question honestly with his own opinion, one which a lot of people agree with.

And I don't agree with comments like them not having options due to x, y or z. They don't have options because they don't want them. In my experience that is, again both professional and personal.

No doubt there are some fine Travellers out there who integrate with society and are trying to better themselves, but we won't see the effects of that for years to come. But you have to admit there is still a large volume of Travellers who don't want to integrate because it's more lucrative to be a criminal.

Casey may not be the spokesperson we need to get the views of the working class across, but he's the only one with balls to make these comments which do reflect the views of quite a lot of people in Ireland. And he's right. Pulling up on the side of the road or camping on peoples property is just that, and it's illegal, but it's allowed because of this protected status. You or I wouldn't get away with it.

And on the topic of sweeping generalisations, wouldn't calling everyone who voted for Casey bigoted or racist be the same? Maybe people don't agree with everything he's said and instead voted for him because everyone else didn't have anything to agree with?

parking up on the side of the road or on someone's land is not allowed. it's illegal. ethnic status or supposed "protected" status doesn't change that.

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

There is no way you wrote this with a straight face.

i absolutely did.

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

SF/IRA dual membership.

held by a small few members. therefore irrelevant really.

Potential-Monke · 03-11-2018 06:28PM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

The Act disagrees with you.

He cannot hide behind 'it is just my opinion'.

The act gives the grounds, because it's hate speech it's not black and white. It has to be proven. His comments alone are not enough to prove hate speech. But I'm sure you know that with your Bachelors of Arts in Policing now, don't you?

end of the road wrote: »

parking up on the side of the road or on someone's land is not allowed. it's illegal. ethnic status or supposed "protected" status doesn't change that.

But it does. If you had a caravan and parked in on the side of the road or on someone else's property, the Gardai would come along and demand you move there and then. If you didn't, caravan would be seized.

With travellers, that doesn't happen. A statement of complaint from the private owner or an order from the local council is required to move them. How is that not different?

tretorn · 03-11-2018 06:30PM

MFPM wrote: »

At least you don't aim your bigotry just at Travellers....Interesting findings to contradict your nonsense here....

% of people who would be willing to have Muslims or Jews in your family..

Netherlands right at the top of the Tree - 88% Muslims - 96% Jews
Germany - 55%- 69%
Sweden - 81% - 92%

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/religion-and-beliefs/stark-east-west-european-differences-on-attitudes-religion-and-identity-1.3680854

More politically correct nonsense as in people afraid to say what they really think.

I note that Hungary hasnt had any terrorist attacks committed by drug crazed unemployed layabout Muslims.

Funny that, I might go on holidays there next year.

I dont really feel safe travelling in Europe anymore, the sight of armed policemen on high alert in Paris and germany has made short breaks very stressful.

Plumbthedepths · 03-11-2018 06:33PM

end of the road wrote: »

i absolutely did.

Sorry don't believe you, noone could make the claims you did with a straight face.

held by a small few members. therefore irrelevant really.

See that's the thing I said SF could give Tubs advice on how to set an ambush considering they have members with such experience. Thanks for confirming. Tripped yourself up there dude.

MFPM · 03-11-2018 06:34PM

tretorn wrote: »

More politically correct nonsense as in people afraid to say what they really think.

How did you arrive at that conclusion?

The Bishop Basher · 03-11-2018 06:34PM

dxhound2005 wrote: »

I set up a company and then gave it to my wife. Peter Casey. Sounds as if he is a bit more equal than most of us.

You are also free to setup a company and give it to your wife.

It’s not that unusual.

Did you have a point to make about it ?

FrancieBrady · 03-11-2018 06:35PM

Edward M wrote: »

It may well be they camp mostly in govt, council or their own property mostly now, but that's not the case "ethnically".
They camped along roadsides and in or on other people's property.
How many travellers, at a guess just, camp or reside in or on their own property?

I don't know the figure but it clearly is not 'basically' them all. From the census:

Nature of occupancy
Irish Traveller households had a lower home ownership rate than the general population with 1 in 5 (20.0%) households owning their home compared to over two-thirds (67.6%) for the general population. The number of Irish Traveller households who owned their home outright increased by 22.8 per cent to 1,133 in 2016.

Of the 6,016 Irish Traveller households who were renting their home, the majority (65.5%) were renting from a local authority, an increase from 3,317 to 3,938 households. There were 1,835 Irish Traveller households renting from a private landlord in 2016, a decrease from 2,257 in 2011.

MFPM · 03-11-2018 06:37PM

tretorn wrote: »

More politically correct nonsense as in people afraid to say what they really think.

I note that Hungary hasnt had any terrorist attacks committed by drug crazed unemployed layabout Muslims.

Funny that, I might go on holidays there next year.

I dont really feel safe travelling in Europe anymore, the sight of armed policemen on high alert in Paris and germany has made short breaks very stressful.

My, my there's alot going on in that sentence...tell us more about these alleged 'drug crazed unemployed layabout Muslims'?

I dont really feel safe travelling in Europe anymore,

Far be it from me to tell you how you should feel, but might I suggest you grow up...have you any idea just how rare attacks are?

Spanish Eyes · 03-11-2018 06:37PM

Just to mention, there are Travellers camping on other people's land out by Dublin Airport.

DAA needs that land to build a third runway for the good of everyone and our economy right?

But now, those who have encamped there for years are demanding nearly a million squids to move now.

The owners of the land are either thick or afraid. How could they not know the rules about squatting. 12 years I think rent free, and you are good to go.

We will pay for this anyway, for the good of our country, the Squatting Travellers will just laugh at our naeivety, and pocket the cash anyway.

Peter Casey believes Travellers should not be recognised as an ethnic minority

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