publishing children's pictures in social media

AvonEnniskerry · 31-10-2018 05:39AM #1

Hi I am just wondering what the legal requirements of a school are in order to upload your child's picture to various sites.

Do they need to seek permission from the parent? Should this be obtained through an opt in or an opt out basis? Are they ok uploading images of school plays to publicly accessible sites?

For clarity I am talking about primary school aged children.

In my experience the polite thing to do would not be to run any social media pages.

BailMeOut · 31-10-2018 09:35AM

My kids school policy says that images or the kids maybe used online from time to time however names are never used and any parent can can opt out of if they want. They also make it very clear that anyone can request any images be removed at any time. To date nobody has ever opted out of made a request for an image to be removed and I know this as I manage the school website and social media.

Did you check you school policy to see what it says?

31-10-2018 01:53PM

AvonEnniskerry wrote: »

In my experience the polite thing to do would not be to run any social media pages.

Why would it be 'polite' to cut off a communications channel with parents, who often find it difficult to stay close to school events?

AvonEnniskerry · 31-10-2018 03:53PM

AndrewJRenko wrote:

Why would it be 'polite' to cut off a communications channel with parents, who often find it difficult to stay close to school events?

Why wouldn't you make it a private social media account. Only accessible by parents. And don't include childrens faces. Just their activities to keep you updated.

Mrs OBumble · 31-10-2018 04:05PM

AvonEnniskerry wrote: »

Why wouldn't you make it a private social media account. Only accessible by parents. And don't include childrens faces. Just their activities to keep you updated.

Because you also need to sell your school to prospective future parents too.

And if you do fundraising, ypu need to prove to sponsors that events actually happened.

Wheety · 31-10-2018 04:06PM

AvonEnniskerry wrote: »

Why wouldn't you make it a private social media account. Only accessible by parents. And don't include childrens faces. Just their activities to keep you updated.

What do you think will happen?

31-10-2018 04:09PM

AvonEnniskerry wrote: »

Why wouldn't you make it a private social media account. Only accessible by parents. And don't include childrens faces. Just their activities to keep you updated.

That's a fairly different suggestion to 'no social media', and yes, there may be an argument for restricting it to parents only. But to exclude childrens' faces is to exclude the joy and pleasure of participation. Many parents are delighted to see their children participating.

If you don't want your children to feature, then that is certainly your entitlement. But why would you want to exclude others who are happy to get involved?

BailMeOut · 31-10-2018 04:12PM

what is the difference between a photo on FB or Twitter of your kids at school being presented a cup after winning a football match and that same photo in a local newspaper which will also be online.

If you do not want your kids online just ask the school as they have to remove if you ask them as GDPR rules apply.

AvonEnniskerry · 31-10-2018 04:28PM

Noone has actually answered. Only given their opinions. Which I was trying to avoid. I specifically asked what are the legal requirements for the school. Should you have sign a consent or an opt out form. Is it deemed Suitable for a school to assume it'll be grand especially when the parent themselves refrain from posting on social media. Social media includes pictures being posted to the general media. What does gdpr mean for schools now as as far as I can see there have been no changes implemented?

BailMeOut · 31-10-2018 05:32PM

AvonEnniskerry wrote: »

Noone has actually answered. Only given their opinions. Which I was trying to avoid. I specifically asked what are the legal requirements for the school. Should you have sign a consent or an opt out form. Is it deemed Suitable for a school to assume it'll be grand especially when the parent themselves refrain from posting on social media. Social media includes pictures being posted to the general media. What does gdpr mean for schools now as as far as I can see there have been no changes implemented?

Schools need to abide to GDPR like anyone else.

At my kids school you need to opt-out rather than opt-in and its clearly noted in school handbook and policies. One could argue that they now need to contact every parent again and to make sure we all understand this.

Mrs OBumble · 31-10-2018 05:53PM

The legal requirements are the same for schools as anyone else.

The school may well have got consent when you signed the enrolment form.

AvonEnniskerry · 31-10-2018 08:56PM

Thank you guys. I have never signed or received any form requesting consent. Or anything that provides me the option to opt in/out. I have however written to the secretary and class teacher requesting she's left off social media. Which has been fine so far. But from talking to other parents no such form has been circulated. I also know it's not been consented through their policies as when I asked I was told that no I'd signed no such thing and they just hadn't gotten around to sending out a consent form yet (that was back at the start of September). Which is why i wanted to know their legal liabilities in such a circumstance.

Duffryman · 01-11-2018 02:34PM

I think that how GDPR applies in such a case is probably too new and too grey an area for anybody here to be able to give a definitive answer.

Can I ask a question about how you might feel about a similar type of situation? Say your child is taking part in a school play, or is on a school sports team. Another parents takes pics of a performance or of a match. These pics mainly show their own child, but your child is visible in them too. This other parent then posts those photos online. How would you feel about that?

AvonEnniskerry · 01-11-2018 03:44PM

Duffryman wrote:

Can I ask a question about how you might feel about a similar type of situation? Say your child is taking part in a school play, or is on a school sports team. Another parents takes pics of a performance or of a match. These pics mainly show their own child, but your child is visible in them too. This other parent then posts those photos online. How would you feel about that?

The other parent should blur out any faces in the background that they do not have permission to post. Personally I don't post any photos online of my own children or anyone elses. I think too much is shared these days and once it's out there it cannot be removed fully.

My personal belief is life is hard enough for children without others being given further ammunition to spark bullying. And you don't know who is looking at or screenshoting those pictures. You can never be too careful.

A child is not old enough to consent to their images being shared. I have no problem when they are older and understand the repurcussions of sharing images but until then I am not happy with it. Regardless of how harmless it might seem at the time of posting.

BailMeOut · 01-11-2018 04:12PM

What if your childs photo gets taken by local newspaper for winning some football match and ends up on front page of local paper and on all their social media sites?

Sheepdish1 · 01-11-2018 04:18PM

BailMeOut wrote: »

what is the difference between a photo on FB or Twitter of your kids at school being presented a cup after winning a football match and that same photo in a local newspaper which will also be online.

If you do not want your kids online just ask the school as they have to remove if you ask them as GDPR rules apply.

Totally different in my opinion. It’s quite easy for complete strangers to get far more information from social media through profiles commenting, snooping , looking at family members, seeing houses places etc they visit.

I think it’s completely different to a photo in a news paper as it offers far more information

spurious · 01-11-2018 04:18PM

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

The legal requirements are the same for schools as anyone else.

The school may well have got consent when you signed the enrolment form.

This.
I know in my old school the photos/website issue was contained in the enrolment forms. It was always made clear to parents they could make sure their children were never photographed, but to my knowledge none of them took up that option. The photos were usually compressed out of existence for the website anyway and you would have been hard pushed to identify anyone for sure in the team photos. We did try when taking photos of activities to have backs of heads and the like rather than close ups.

01-11-2018 04:19PM

If the school doesn't have any policies, there might be a good opportunity to work with the school to put such policies in place. Maybe you could work through the Parents Association to make this happen, that would be a great constructive response.

Sheepdish1 · 01-11-2018 04:24PM

I had to sign a consent form to whether or not photo could be taken - yes/ no

On same form it asked if any of these photos could be used online yes/ no

I replied no to the online usage as I don’t post pictures of my kids on internet and nor do I allow other people to.

Sheepdish1 · 01-11-2018 04:28PM

I don’t think schools can take photos of your kids full stop without consent.

I would even say if photos were being taken for non online use, such as teacher training PowerPoint presentations, that photos would likely be non identifying photos *unless* signed permission by parents was given for faces to be used.

Robbo · 01-11-2018 04:45PM

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

The legal requirements are the same for schools as anyone else.

The school may well have got consent when you signed the enrolment form.

spurious wrote: »

This.
I know in my old school the photos/website issue was contained in the enrolment forms. It was always made clear to parents they could make sure their children were never photographed, but to my knowledge none of them took up that option. The photos were usually compressed out of existence for the website anyway and you would have been hard pushed to identify anyone for sure in the team photos. We did try when taking photos of activities to have backs of heads and the like rather than close ups.

Bundling this purported consent into enrolment in the school would more than likely mean that this is not a validly obtained consent.

01-11-2018 05:12PM

Robbo wrote: »

Bundling this purported consent into enrolment in the school would more than likely mean that this is not a validly obtained consent.

Why?

Duffryman · 01-11-2018 05:21PM

AvonEnniskerry wrote: »

The other parent should blur out any faces in the background that they do not have permission to post. Personally I don't post any photos online of my own children or anyone elses. I think too much is shared these days and once it's out there it cannot be removed fully.

My personal belief is life is hard enough for children without others being given further ammunition to spark bullying. And you don't know who is looking at or screenshoting those pictures. You can never be too careful.

A child is not old enough to consent to their images being shared. I have no problem when they are older and understand the repurcussions of sharing images but until then I am not happy with it. Regardless of how harmless it might seem at the time of posting.

Well, thanks for the answer. Can I ask another one? Or more accurately, repeat a question that somebody else asked, but that you don't seem to have answered yet....what exactly are you afraid of?

My children are aged 6 and 9 and their photos have been shared on the likes of Facebook for years now, by their school, GAA and soccer club, and others, without my wife or I ever having a problem with it, or anything untoward happening as a result.

From another perspective, I've run the GAA club website and Facebook page ever since they were set up, and have put online hundreds if not thousands of picture from matches and other club events (days away, Fun Days, fundraisers, etc.), without any parent ever expressing concern that their child was in them. On the other hand, I've had a few saying they were disappointed that their child wasn't in a particular team shot (for example) because they were away that day.

Obviously you're entitled to your view but it would seem that your view is very much the minority one, and I can't help but wonder just what it is that you're so concerned about?

RayCun · 01-11-2018 05:35PM

The child protection course I went on with my club a few years ago said kids shouldn't be identified online. You could put up a photo of the team, for example, but not caption it with their names.

AvonEnniskerry · 01-11-2018 05:40PM

Sheepdish1 wrote:

Totally different in my opinion. Itâ€™s quite easy for complete strangers to get far more information from social media through profiles commenting, snooping , looking at family members, seeing houses places etc they visit.

I agree with this. But for the purpose of schools I don't differentiate. I find it complicates things if I say yes to that photo but no to those. Much better to just say a blanket no and then there's no room for error or mistake.

AvonEnniskerry · 01-11-2018 05:56PM

Duffryman wrote:

Well, thanks for the answer. Can I ask another one? Or more accurately, repeat a question that somebody else asked, but that you don't seem to have answered yet....what exactly are you afraid of?

Once any image is released online there is no taking it back. The damage is done. Firstly I want to highlight this to my children. Secondly you don't know who will appear in yours or your loved ones lives in the future that may pose a threat or a danger to your family.

For instance I was in a closed group discussion forum some time ago. I disagreed with a fella on it. He turned very nasty. Pming me saying he'd come after me and my kids. (I had previously mentioned I'd kids). A quick Google search showed he was local to the area and had previously been convicted of a violent crime. Had my Facebook not been locked down he would have seen where I lived. My kids pictures. And any other information I had cared to share to the world.

For me. It's nobodies business what me or my children do on a Saturday, where they go to school. What clubs they attend and when.

Mrs OBumble · 01-11-2018 09:42PM

Sheepdish1 wrote: »

I don’t think schools can take photos of your kids full stop without consent.

I would even say if photos were being taken for non online use, such as teacher training PowerPoint presentations, that photos would likely be non identifying photos *unless* signed permission by parents was given for faces to be used.

Schools routinely collect all sorts of data about student activity and achievement: this ranges from simple attendance on the roll, to running records of performance during tasks, to marks on tests, to written commentary on report cards, to photos of activities and pieces of work.

Teachers should be using this data to inform their practise, and to demonstrate to auditors / inspectors (whatever they're called here) what the school is doing.

If they want to use it for other purposes, they probably need to get specific consent for that. But not for straight-up educational purposes.

AvonEnniskerry wrote: »

The other parent should blur out any faces in the background that they do not have permission to post. ....

My personal belief is life is hard enough for children without others being given further ammunition to spark bullying. And you don't know who is looking at or screenshoting those pictures. You can never be too careful.

That is your belief. But AFAIK the law in Ireland doesn't support you in this. I suspect you'll struggle to get other parents to co-operate with your wishes, and I think there's a lot of potential for your kids to resent it later on when they realise what memories they are not part of ("everybody else is in the school photos, but we weren't allowed to be")

TheQuietFella · 01-11-2018 09:50PM

AvonEnniskerry wrote: »

Once any image is released online there is no taking it back. The damage is done. Firstly I want to highlight this to my children. Secondly you don't know who will appear in yours or your loved ones lives in the future that may pose a threat or a danger to your family.

For instance I was in a closed group discussion forum some time ago. I disagreed with a fella on it. He turned very nasty. Pming me saying he'd come after me and my kids. (I had previously mentioned I'd kids). A quick Google search showed he was local to the area and had previously been convicted of a violent crime. Had my Facebook not been locked down he would have seen where I lived. My kids pictures. And any other information I had cared to share to the world.

For me. It's nobodies business what me or my children do on a Saturday, where they go to school. What clubs they attend and when.

I think you're just paranoid!

Mod
Be polite here. Many have genuine well-founded concerns about these matters

Achasanai · 01-11-2018 11:03PM

Where I work (not school or child related, mind) new GDPR regulations meant a strict opt-in policy with regards to any data we have on people unless it is essential to how we run our service. Anything superfluous to this would mean getting users to fill in fairly detailed forms explicitly stating their acceptance (of whatever).

I'm surprised that this doesn't seem to be the case, particularly in an area that is even more sensitive than the one where I work.

Charmeleon · 01-11-2018 11:11PM

Sheepdish1 wrote: »

Totally different in my opinion. It’s quite easy for complete strangers to get far more information from social media through profiles commenting, snooping , looking at family members, seeing houses places etc they visit.

I think it’s completely different to a photo in a news paper as it offers far more information

You can’t get any additional information from a Facebook photo apart from what you can see and what is in the text. Unless parents or children approve a tag it can’t be linked directly back to their profile. It’s pretty much the same as a newspaper photo.

Robbo · 02-11-2018 09:49AM

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Why?

It can hardly have been freely given if enrolment is contingent on giving the consent.

This isn't a GDPR thing either, it's a long standing principle.

publishing children's pictures in social media

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