advice for extending wifi coverage in older property

jimand josie · 01-10-2018 12:07AM #1

Hi Guys,

We have an old property with solid stone walls, fire doors and the whole property is in a horse shoe layout so a lot is set against us.

We have for several years "managed" with TPLink Plug in wifi extenders, first trying with one wifi name and password which was a complete disaster as the hand-offs don't occur until the wifi signal is very low or none existent, only then will your device search for another stronger signal, we were forever restoring the damn extenders and roaming around the house was a nightmare. We therefore changed each extenders name to that of the room, so dining room, lounge, kitchen, guest room, etc, etc. you can only run around 5 of these however, any more they seem to conflict with each other and become unruly.

The TPlinks are a pain and having to constantly change the wifi connection to the best signal after trying to check emails on your phone etc is a major pain, especially as we are currently only working with 10mb at the main router, by the time the TPLinks have reduced the bandwidth your lucky to get 2-3mb.

we also have outbuildings (workshop and pub) that we need to get wifi to, so I have run an LAN underground to them that will connect to the main router.

But moving forward we have seen the fibre optic cable being placed on the road outside our house and we are about to be connected to proper broadband!

In preparation for this we have dug a trench for the new line as per the Eir specifications and the new fibre will be pulled into the house by the installers soon. We have also run a proper LAN line between the main rooms in the house, and will invest in a proper router rather than the crap the internet providers give you for free and we were thinking of a couple of options:

1, Use proper Access points in the main parts of the house such as the commercial Ubiquiti type with the same name as the main router, as we understand the hand-offs are seamless with these, however that will still leave some more remote places out of coverage which we can use the dreaded TPLink plug ins for.

2, Buy one of the super outdoor wifi transmitters that look a little like a satellite dish, mount it on the barn and point it at the property, apparently these things can send a signal up to 2-3km away, so the theory was that with a good strong signal beaming over the house the signal would be picked up through all the windows and roof, which are wore wifi friendly than 18" thick stone walls.

Has anyone had any experience with any of these options? Im interested in hearing from anyone who has a similar problem or used the Ubiquiti or dish type wifi transmitters? like this TP-Link 2.4GHz 24dBi Directional Grid Parabolic Antenna, N Female Connector, Weather Resistant (TL-ANT2424B)

appreciate any advise, no, I really do.

Thanks

Jim

The high horse brigade · 02-10-2018 03:37PM

Your main issue is channel overlapping, you need to ensure each access point is on a channel well away from the others nearby. Get a wifi analyser app for your smartphone

ED E · 02-10-2018 03:47PM

jimand josie wrote: »

2, Buy one of the super outdoor wifi transmitters that look a little like a satellite dish, mount it on the barn and point it at the property, apparently these things can send a signal up to 2-3km away, so the theory was that with a good strong signal beaming over the house the signal would be picked up through all the windows and roof, which are wore wifi friendly than 18" thick stone walls.

Hah, no, thats not how that works. The directional dishes are subject to the same power limits as omni antennas on your router. They simply direct it all in one narrow beam. This works as all thats between the two units is air. Doing the above would just end up all your transmission being attenuated in one spot of the outer wall.

jimand josie wrote: »

1, Use proper Access points in the main parts of the house such as the commercial Ubiquiti type with the same name as the main router, as we understand the hand-offs are seamless with these, however that will still leave some more remote places out of coverage which we can use the dreaded TPLink plug ins for.

Yes, do this. But don't add TP links. They will degrade the main APs and cause mayhem with your controller trying to provide smooth roaming for clients.

If there area areas where you can't easily wire in an AP place one with EoP backhaul back into your main wired net. Use EoP as sparingly as possible.

This sounds like a B&B/guesthouse? If so I'd suggest maybe adding an omni AP on the roof. Placed well it could provide wifi in a 500m radius on the grounds (if any) with a single device.

jimand josie · 02-10-2018 08:12PM

The high horse brigade wrote: »

Your main issue is channel overlapping, you need to ensure each access point is on a channel well away from the others nearby. Get a wifi analyser app for your smartphone

Thanks for your time High Horse Brigade,

That is the set-up I have at the moment with TP links, I have made sure that they are all on separate Channels, however this doesn't resolve the hand-off drop-out I always get.

likely go for the commercial Ubiquiti option as allegedly they have seamless handoffs between AP's.

jimand josie · 02-10-2018 08:29PM

ED E wrote: »

Hah, no, thats not how that works. The directional dishes are subject to the same power limits as omni antennas on your router. They simply direct it all in one narrow beam. This works as all thats between the two units is air. Doing the above would just end up all your transmission being attenuated in one spot of the outer wall.

Yes, do this. But don't add TP links. They will degrade the main APs and cause mayhem with your controller trying to provide smooth roaming for clients.

If there area areas where you can't easily wire in an AP place one with EoP backhaul back into your main wired net. Use EoP as sparingly as possible.

This sounds like a B&B/guesthouse? If so I'd suggest maybe adding an omni AP on the roof. Placed well it could provide wifi in a 500m radius on the grounds (if any) with a single device.

Hi Ed E,

Thanks so much for your time in responding, I was obviously miles off with the, best the signal through the roof with a directional dish, that makes sense as thats how a satellite dish works, so thanks for that.

I will go for the commercial Ubiquiti APs wherever possible, they can't be ceiling mounted though, is I will have to mount them high on the wall.

I'm not sure what a EoP backhaul back into your main wired net consists of so I will try to google it and educate myself😊

am I overthinking this, if all I need it a wifi signal for domestic use (please forgive me for asking this) can I not just extend the ariels on the main router? I see routers that have multiple transmission ariels, instead of running an LAN to an AP, could I just not run a coax cable from the router Ariel output and place an aerial in the next part of the house that needs a signal, it sounds too simple and cost effective, so I guess that it may not work.😳.

The place is not a B&B but rather a series of buildings that have been crafted together to make an unusual house:D

The high horse brigade · 02-10-2018 08:30PM

jimand josie wrote: »

Thanks for your time High Horse Brigade,

That is the set-up I have at the moment with TP links, I have made sure that they are all on separate Channels, however this doesn't resolve the hand-off drop-out I always get.

likely go for the commercial Ubiquiti option as allegedly they have seamless handoffs between AP's.

Yeah Ubiquiti are good but the roaming is completely down to the client itself. Some devices are better than others, more modern 2018 smartphones and laptops will be excellent. Forget about the Ubiquiti zero handoff, even Ubiquiti themselves have given up on it, it brings about too many issues and low bandwidth. Set your access points on staggered channels, do it manually.

gctest50 · 02-10-2018 09:26PM

jimand josie wrote: »

.............

The place is not a B&B but rather a series of buildings that have been crafted together to make an unusual house:D

Could you draw a rough Microsoft Paint or similar simple diagram of the building ?

jimand josie · 02-10-2018 10:58PM

gctest50 wrote: »

Could you draw a rough Microsoft Paint or similar simple diagram of the building ?

Yes, I will try, please find attached what I have managed to draw, it makes it easier to visualise the problem.

The high horse brigade · 02-10-2018 11:48PM

jimand josie wrote: »

Yes, I will try, please find attached what I have managed to draw, it makes it easier to visualise the problem.

You should cover that with 2x Ubiquiti long range APs, one on the dining room ceiling, the other on the kitchen ceiling. The kitchen one would also cover the rooms above. I've fitted plenty of them, I'm covering a 12 bedroom guesthouse, restaurant and function room that is spread over 2 buildings with 1 meter stone walls with 2 APs, you'll have no bother. In fact you'll probably end up turning the transmit power down on 2.4ghz

Ubiquiti Networks UAP-AC-LR 175.7 x 43.2 mm 2.4-5 GHz 802.11ac Dual-Radio Long Range Access Point - White https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B016K5A06C/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_pwaTBbX4QRQ9W

jimand josie · 03-10-2018 08:52PM

Guys,

Thanks so much for the responses, its guys like you that make this board so good. I will try the Ubiquiti option and let you know how I get on.

PatchIt · 30-10-2018 11:08PM

Hi Jim and Josie,

I would also recommend Ubiquiti access points. One in kitchen one in the dining room. I would be a little bit worried about signal covering guest rooms. If lan to guest rooms is not possible and Ubiquiti from dining room won't reach I would suggest powerline adapter with extra Ubiquiti to cover those rooms. As per barn and pub -one access point in each location should do the trick.

Feel free to PM if you have any more queries or need some help.

regards Armands

jimand josie wrote: »

Hi Guys,

We have an old property with solid stone walls, fire doors and the whole property is in a horse shoe layout so a lot is set against us.

We have for several years "managed" with TPLink Plug in wifi extenders, first trying with one wifi name and password which was a complete disaster as the hand-offs don't occur until the wifi signal is very low or none existent, only then will your device search for another stronger signal, we were forever restoring the damn extenders and roaming around the house was a nightmare. We therefore changed each extenders name to that of the room, so dining room, lounge, kitchen, guest room, etc, etc. you can only run around 5 of these however, any more they seem to conflict with each other and become unruly. The TPlinks are a pain and having to constantly change the wifi connection to the best signal after trying to check emails on your phone etc is a major pain, especially as we are currently only working with 10mb at the main router, by the time the TPLinks have reduced the bandwidth your lucky to get 2-3mb.

we also have outbuildings (workshop and pub) that we need to get wifi to, so I have run an LAN underground to them that will connect to the main router.

But moving forward we have seen the fibre optic cable being placed on the road outside our house and we are about to be connected to proper broadband!
In preparation for this we have dug a trench for the new line as per the Eir specifications and the new fibre will be pulled into the house by the installers soon. We have also run a proper LAN line between the main rooms in the house, and will invest in a proper router rather than the crap the internet providers give you for free and we were thinking of a couple of options:

1, Use proper Access points in the main parts of the house such as the commercial Ubiquiti type with the same name as the main router, as we understand the hand-offs are seamless with these, however that will still leave some more remote places out of coverage which we can use the dreaded TPLink plug ins for.

2, Buy one of the super outdoor wifi transmitters that look a little like a satellite dish, mount it on the barn and point it at the property, apparently these things can send a signal up to 2-3km away, so the theory was that with a good strong signal beaming over the house the signal would be picked up through all the windows and roof, which are wore wifi friendly than 18" thick stone walls.

Has anyone had any experience with any of these options? Im interested in hearing from anyone who has a similar problem or used the Ubiquiti or dish type wifi transmitters? like this TP-Link 2.4GHz 24dBi Directional Grid Parabolic Antenna, N Female Connector, Weather Resistant (TL-ANT2424B)

appreciate any advise, no, I really do.

Thanks

Jim

jimand josie · 31-10-2018 12:29AM

So I went the Unifi route, as I can never remember how to spell Ubiquiti, and used a 60w Unifi managed switch in the lounge where the wains router and finer will be based, (at the moment its fed by a TP link plug-in extender), but hopefully not for long.

Bought a one meter long 22mm SDS+ drill bit and veeerrrryyy slowly drilled through the lounge to kitchen and lounge to dining room walls, ran cat5e to both via POE and mounted as high up the wall as I could. I know it would have been better on the ceilings however sometimes its about compromise for aesthetics and actually this worked out very well. Also we have wooden beams in the ceilings so if I had mounted it there it meant I couldn't get a signal on the patio outside the rear of the kitchen.

From the Kitchen I can get a signal outside at the front of the house, through to the main guest room next to the kitchen (even in the bathroom of the guest room with was surprising)!
However the strange thing was the signal was weak in the master bedroom which is directly above the kitchen.

The next AP I put in the dining room and faced it down the hall to the other guest rooms and was really impressed with the signal strength right down the end room bathroom with all the doors closed, so a real surprise that one!

The lounge was low on signal in some places, and as this is where we spend most of our time I put another one here and this sends the signal up to the master bedroom really well so we can run the smart TV from this now, as prior it had to have its own plug in TP link.

it was a real pleasure to go around the house and remove all the TP links and not to have to stay in one place when you're on FaceTime because you're frightened to be pushed onto another network.

I have to say the Unifi products are fantastic, the hand-off from one AP to the next is seamless even if your on IP phone walking from room to room.

I bought all the stuff in Prague when I was there earlier this month as they were pretty cheap from a company called Mironet who are one of the main distributors for Ubiquiti.

The AP AC LR's were €94.00 each
The 8 port (4xPOE) switch was €92.00
The outdoor AP was €83.00

Not a huge saving from what you can buy theme here for, however it was good to be able to talk through with the sales guy and make sure I was ordering the right thing.

All of this was possible because of the advice given here on this forum, I genuinely thank EVERYONE who spent their time to respond with suggestions, its guys like you that make the difference.

Thanks everyone!!:)

The high horse brigade · 31-10-2018 08:28AM

Great, delighted you took the advise given and got all sorted. Ubiquiti are an amazing solution. Are you running the software or have you bothered with it? If you did you can now get playing with adding a guest or kids network with a home themed login page, time schedules and bandwidth limits.

jimand josie · 01-11-2018 10:28PM

Thanks, yes I've bought into the complete Unifi experience with the Unifi app and web interface, now I can really mess it up with all those magic settings and parameters I know nothing about when I'm bored.

On a serious note I did run into difficulty with the setup as I'm a Mac user, for some reason I set it all up and all was great, then It wouldn't let me log back in, so I thought it was a password issue, after a long time going back and forth I contacted Unifi, it turned out that the Unifi controller interface doesn't work that well on Safari for Mac, so had to set it up again with Firefox. At this stage all the lights were on yet I had no wifi, hours later and after trying everything including putting my TP links back in I again got hold of Unifi via web-chat.......

it was one of those "perhaps you should put it back in the box and take it back to the shop mate, as your too stupid to own this product" moments, I hadn't set-up a wifi network!!!
For a qualified mechanical Engineer, I sometimes despair at my stupidity!!

monkeyman · 06-02-2019 03:41PM

The high horse brigade wrote: »

Great, delighted you took the advise given and got all sorted. Ubiquiti are an amazing solution. Are you running the software or have you bothered with it? If you did you can now get playing with adding a guest or kids network with a home themed login page, time schedules and bandwidth limits.

Is there a difference between something like the Unifi solution (think you refer to them as AP's) and something like Google Wifi (which is termed a Mesh wi-fi router).

With so much terminology out there, I don't know what is the best option for me to extend wi-fi coverage to an office upstairs. I originally thought I could just get a wi-fi extende to plug in.

There is a concrete slab between the floors so I have to go up the stairs somehow.

I have my Eircom router (approx 8M DL) downstairs. And I need to get coverage upstairs for work. Plans attached. I've marked the router, power points, and the office in blue where i need to get too.

Suggestions would be greatly appreciated

The high horse brigade · 06-02-2019 04:19PM

monkeyman wrote: »

Is there a difference between something like the Unifi solution (think you refer to them as AP's) and something like Google Wifi (which is termed a Mesh wi-fi router).

With so much terminology out there, I don't know what is the best option for me to extend wi-fi coverage to an office upstairs. I originally thought I could just get a wi-fi extende to plug in.

There is a concrete slab between the floors so I have to go up the stairs somehow.

I have my Eircom router (approx 8M DL) downstairs. And I need to get coverage upstairs for work. Plans attached. I've marked the router, power points, and the office in blue where i need to get too.

Suggestions would be greatly appreciated

Mesh is not really of about use to you as you have mass concrete blocking signals. If you can't get a signal through it now how can't expect a wireless system to work through it.

You would be best consider a wired access point system like Ubiquiti. You'll most likely need to run cables. Ubiquiti give brilliant coverage when they are ceiling mounted, one mounted centrally upstairs would give you great coverage

monkeyman · 06-02-2019 04:29PM

The high horse brigade wrote: »

Mesh is not really of about use to you as you have mass concrete blocking signals. If you can't get a signal through it now how can't expect a wireless system to work through it.

You would be best consider a wired access point system like Ubiquiti. You'll most likely need to run cables. Ubiquiti give brilliant coverage when they are ceiling mounted, one mounted centrally upstairs would give you great coverage

My thinking was that these mesh networks could almost push the signal around the house. So if I placed one near the bottom of the stairs, it would pick up the signal from the sitting room easily. Place another one at the top of the stairs which is beside the office and I could get away with it.

Or is that being over-optimistic!

The high horse brigade · 06-02-2019 04:41PM

monkeyman wrote: »

My thinking was that these mesh networks could almost push the signal around the house. So if I placed one near the bottom of the stairs, it would pick up the signal from the sitting room easily. Place another one at the top of the stairs which is beside the office and I could get away with it.

Or is that being over-optimistic!

Yes, I wouldn't even consider mesh with concrete floors and most likely concrete partition walls upstairs. It can work well in timer built homes and apartments like they build in the States but not here, we build with concrete.

advice for extending wifi coverage in older property

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