Hi vis discussion thread (read post #1)

GreeBo · 25-10-2018 05:47PM

tomasrojo wrote: »

Yes, the one thing clear from that image of a wing mirror is that there isn't a nearby(*) cyclist with a good headlight approaching from behind on the left. Because physics, to quote somebody or other.

(*)I suppose a cyclist further away might look like one of the other points of light, but who cares about the image of a cyclist who's far away and behind a car moving forward. It's only important if the cyclist is passing, at which point their light is much bigger and brighter.

Its important *before* they are passing, I dont know about you but I prefer to see cyclists before they are alongside me.

You cant easily tell if a cyclist is near or far away based on their light as you have no idea what type of light they have, if it a weakm, crappy one and they are right on top of me or a powerful one and they are actually several hundred metres behind me.

tomasrojo · 25-10-2018 05:52PM

GreeBo wrote: »

Its important *before* they are passing, I dont know about you but I prefer to see cyclists before they are alongside me.

I said "nearby" not "alongside". And hiviz, unless there's a strong light source right in front of you *pointing backwards* at the cyclist, hiviz adds nothing in this scenario.

GreeBo wrote: »

You cant easily tell if a cyclist is near or far away based on their light as you have no idea what type of light they have, if it a weakm, crappy one and they are right on top of me or a powerful one and they are actually several hundred metres behind me.

You are about the least observant person who has ever posted here.

GreeBo · 25-10-2018 05:55PM

tomasrojo wrote: »

I said "nearby" not "alongside".

No, you said
"It's only important if the cyclist is passing, at which point their light is much bigger and brighter."

I dont know how you pass without being alongside?

tomasrojo wrote: »

And hiviz, unless there's a strong light source right in front of you *pointing backwards* at the cyclist adds nothing in this scenario.

You mean like all the cars in front of me, me own cars brake lights and all the oncoming cars front lights?

But I guess your bike light has more light than all of these things...

tomasrojo wrote: »

You are about the least observant person who has ever posted here.

Reported, fwiw.

tomasrojo · 25-10-2018 05:57PM

GreeBo wrote: »

No, you said
"It's only important if the cyclist is passing, at which point their light is much bigger and brighter."

I dont know how you pass without being alongside?

I meant that an image of a cyclist in a rear-facing mirror is only important if the cyclist#s speed relative to your own is such that they can actually pass you. So it's really only relevant if the car is slow-moving or stationary -- as in parked or in peak traffic.

tomasrojo · 25-10-2018 05:58PM

.

tomasrojo · 25-10-2018 06:02PM

GreeBo wrote: »

You mean like all the cars in front of me, me own cars brake lights and all the oncoming cars front lights?

Brake lights are diffuse, decent bike headlights are collimated and far brighter than a reflection of already diffuse light.

The oncoming car lights are pointing to their left, not towards you, and in the scenario where a bike would be passing you on the left, there's a snake of cars that would be blocking that light anyway.

Macy0161 · 25-10-2018 06:57PM

AndrewJRenko wrote:

Not really, when you compare it to the general public's opinion of motorists who routinely break speed limits, red lights, mobile phone laws and kill 3 or 4 people each week.

Speeding is so endemic it's not even seen as an issue, but I see far more cars break reds on my commute than cyclists, but it just isn't accepted.

Either they're breaking reds, or the sequencing is seriously out at every junction and that's the reason there's always several cars going across while I have green....

07Lapierre · 25-10-2018 07:11PM

GreeBo wrote: »

I'm failing to see how this disproves my belief and/or proves yours?

I actually thought it confirmed what you were saying about the majority of cyclists cycling in urban areas. Not that I think that matters really as IMO, once it's dark, all road users should use good lights.

TBH, the most depressing statistic in the report is the Sheer number of commuters who use cars to get to work! 72% in rural areas!

mloc123 · 25-10-2018 07:37PM

Passed a labrador while out cycling today... he was wearing a high viz vest, standard RSA issue one

Grassey · 25-10-2018 08:35PM

1M-2M-3M-5M-Waterproof-LED-Strip-Light-Neon-Light-Glow-EL-Wire-Rope-Tube-Cable.jpg_640x640q90.jpg_.webp

Clearly the only solution is to mix lights and high vis for everyone to be safe. Cars, pedestrians, cyclists Unite!

buffalo · 25-10-2018 08:41PM

GreeBo wrote: »

No, I am saying that I cant see the back of the cyclist no matter what light is or is not shining on them*. I dont know what relevance the back of the cyclist has to the argument, but if you keep bringing it up, I'll keep knocking it down.

I never mentioned the cyclist's back.

As far as I can see, you're the only person who's mentioned it, and keeps bringing it up.

GreeBo · 25-10-2018 09:05PM

buffalo wrote: »

I never mentioned the cyclist's back. As far as I can see, you're the only person who's mentioned it, and keeps bringing it up.

You were talking about the cyclist blocking other light behind them.
The only light they are blocking would be shining on their beck, so is irrelevant.

buffalo · 25-10-2018 09:16PM

GreeBo wrote: »

You were talking about the cyclist blocking other light behind them.
The inky light they are blocking would ke be shining on their beck, so is irrelevant.

I didn't say anything about them blocking light.

buffalo wrote: »

You're saying all the light shining on the cyclist is bright and shiny and visible, but an actual light isn't?

I'd ask if you were drinking, but I don't want to make CramCycle angry. :pac:

AndrewJRenko · 25-10-2018 09:17PM

mloc123 wrote: »

Passed a labrador while out cycling today... he was wearing a high viz vest, standard RSA issue one

We should do some tests to see how effective the hi-vis is for the labrador.

We should do some lab tests.

Grassey · 25-10-2018 09:18PM

GreeBo wrote:

You were talking about the cyclist blocking other light behind them. The inky light they are blocking would ke be shining on their beck, so is irrelevant.

I actually belive it was me that said it'd block light behind them...

Anyways, given the narrow field of vision of a left wing mirror how are the raindrop magnified lights dazzling light sources in your earlier posts, yet if blocked by a cyclist are inky in this latest post...

07Lapierre · 25-10-2018 09:31PM

Grassey wrote: »

Clearly the only solution is to mix lights and high vis for everyone to be safe. Cars, pedestrians, cyclists Unite!

I know your joking, but we have to remember the biggest issue on our roads is lack of observation/awareness and not visibility.

We have experienced cyclists, inexperienced cyclists mixed in with inexperienced motorists and experienced motorists. It's a lethal combination!
Example: video below from my commute home yesterday. I have a hope district rear light set to flash mode. This light is bright. I'm wearing a bright orange/blue jacket. Yet Mr van driver sees me and still makes the decision to overtake straingt into the path of an oncoming car on a road with a solid white line. No amount of hi viz will prevent this type of incident..

https://www.hopetech.com/product/district-plus-rear/

https://youtu.be/iwj8XgX6ZV0

GreeBo · 25-10-2018 10:50PM

Grassey wrote: »

I actually belive it was me that said it'd block light behind them...

Anyways, given the narrow field of vision of a left wing mirror how are the raindrop magnified lights dazzling light sources in your earlier posts, yet if blocked by a cyclist are inky in this latest post...

Indeed it was you.

You think a car mirror has a narrow field of vision?
Compared to what, Hubble?

Clearly that was an auto correct, but whatever floats your boat chief.

GreeBo · 25-10-2018 10:58PM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1hebsjiVviQ

Pop quiz.
Of the three bicycles who pass the camera on the left, who is the most visible?

CramCycle · 25-10-2018 11:04PM

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

We should do some tests to see how effective the hi-vis is for the labrador.

We should do some lab tests.

You have won this thread Andrew

GreeBo wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1hebsjiVviQ

Pop quiz.
Of the three bicycles who pass the camera on the left, who is the most visible?

It's the middle of the day, they are all pretty visible, if you think any of them are less visible I would suggest an eye test. Now some are more memorable but that's a different story,

tomasrojo · 25-10-2018 11:14PM

Pop quiz. Of the hundred or so cyclists approaching the camera, who is the most conspicuous?

GreeBo · 25-10-2018 11:17PM

It's the middle of the day, they are all pretty visible, if you think any of them are less visible I would suggest an eye test. Now some are more memorable but that's a different story,

Its not the middle of the day, that's why the vast majority of vehicles have their lights on.

So you are honestly trying to say the dark cyclist is just as visible as the other two? You think a black jacket stands out from a dark background the same way a yellow jacket does?

Well at least you are consistently biased, i guess. Laughably so.

tomasrojo · 25-10-2018 11:20PM

Scooter-based red-light jumper drew most attention for me. Then the girl with the nice satchel, and what looks like a Brompton.

EDIT: Not a Brompton.

GreeBo · 25-10-2018 11:23PM

tomasrojo wrote: »

Pop quiz. Of the hundred or so cyclists approaching the camera, who is the most conspicuous?

The one wearing the bright pink sleeves.
Where do i collect my prize?

Not what you wanted to hear?
Even though you used the most contrived example of a bike ride on a closed road it still backfired and proved my point...and not a light to be seen, despite a light being better than clothing in every scenario...apparently.

tomasrojo · 25-10-2018 11:25PM

GreeBo wrote: »

The one wearing the bright pink sleeves.
Where do i collect my prize?

Not what you wanted to hear?
Even though you used the most contrived example of a bike ride on a closed road it still backfired and proved my point...and not a light to be seen, despite a light being better than clothing in every scenario...apparently.

You can now add the most humourless person ever to post here to your accolades.

AndrewJRenko · 25-10-2018 11:26PM

GreeBo wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1hebsjiVviQ

Pop quiz.
Of the three bicycles who pass the camera on the left, who is the most visible?

Is this the one where we all miss the guy in the gorilla suit?

GreeBo · 25-10-2018 11:27PM

tomasrojo wrote: »

Scooter-based red-light jumper drew most attention for me. Then the girl with the nice satchel, and what looks like a Brompton.

Hmm maybe you shouldn't be on the road if your attention to detail is so poor?

The question was which cyclist, but thanks for trying.
E for effort.

07Lapierre · 25-10-2018 11:28PM

GCN tested clothing and lights. Conclusion? Good lights and "reflective" clothing.

https://youtu.be/9ZRXlrJ3Mi0

CramCycle · 25-10-2018 11:29PM

GreeBo wrote: »

Its not the middle of the day, that's why the vast majority of vehicles have their lights on.

So you are honestly trying to say the dark cyclist is just as visible as the other two? You think a black jacket stands out from a dark background the same way a yellow jacket does?

Well at least you are consistently biased, i guess. Laughably so.

I say again, it's broad daylight. Quite a few of the cars have no lights or DRLs. I can see every car, every pedestrian and every cyclist. If you think that is not broad daylight then I give up, it's optimal visibility, it would be damn near impossible to blend in to the background.

I say this , hand on heart, if you are struggling or think some people were harder than others to see in that video, you need to get an eye test and stop.deiving until suitable corrective measures are in place.

Id have understood if you put up a video at night, or even dawn or dusk but you have put up the perfect example of a time when any aid should be completely unnecessary.

Honest question, did you find some of the cyclists harder to see than others?

07Lapierre · 25-10-2018 11:31PM

tomasrojo wrote: »

Scooter-based red-light jumper drew most attention for me. Then the girl with the nice satchel, and what looks like a Brompton.

EDIT: Not a Brompton.

The very bright Red traffic light stands out most...and the numpty on the scooter.

Also nice to see the cyclist stopped at the light and only moves when it goes green!

GreeBo · 25-10-2018 11:33PM

tomasrojo wrote: »

You can now add the most humourless person ever to post here to your accolades.

Again with the personal attacks.
Is that the default behaviour here when someone has the temerity to not only disagree, but back up their view with examples?
You should really try to find something to say to attempt to defend or backup your point instead.
(Cue 'witty' retort)

You are in good company here though, it's not only the wheels on the bus that go round and round it seems.

Hi vis discussion thread (read post #1)

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