Do generic drugs work?

seamus · 24-10-2018 10:40AM

Who goes to the doctor with a cold? Surely people can tell the difference between a cold and a chest infection?

Bad cold or a 'flu can be pretty miserable and the coughing overpowering. Most people get a 'flu maybe once a decade, if at all, so the severity of it can make them think they need a doctor.

ohnonotgmail · 24-10-2018 10:43AM

Floppybits wrote: »

Jaysus I started with a chest infection and now I have bacterial infection next I will heading down to the undertakers to sort out my funeral.

Who goes to the doctor with a cold? Surely people can tell the difference between a cold and a chest infection?

If your chest infection was not caused by a bacterial infection the it is pointless giving you antibiotics. Antibiotics dont work on viral infections which can also cause chest infections. Unfortunately most GPs just prescribe antibiotics for a chest infection without checking if it is bacterial or viral in nature. The sooner that GPs realise that this is mostly useless the better.

https://www.nice.org.uk/guidance/cg69/evidence/full-guideline-196853293

Mint Sauce · 24-10-2018 10:44AM

Only people who benifit from Branded Drugs are the Labs/Manufacture, and the Prescriping Doctor. Yes they get paid/rewards from the reps.

I take regular stomach medication, I ask for it by the Generic name on renewing the prescription, and when in the Chemist, and the Dr always always buts the Brand name on the prescription. It does the same job, but costs at least twice as much.

Dakota Dan · 24-10-2018 10:45AM

seamus wrote: »

Bad cold or a 'flu can be pretty miserable and the coughing overpowering. Most people get a 'flu maybe once a decade, if at all, so the severity of it can make them think they need a doctor.

If they had the flu the doctor would have to go to them as they wouldn’t e able to get out of bed.

ohnonotgmail · 24-10-2018 10:45AM

seamus wrote: »

Bad cold or a 'flu can be pretty miserable and the coughing overpowering. Most people get a 'flu maybe once a decade, if at all, so the severity of it can make them think they need a doctor.

If you actually have influenza (and not just a bad cold or "man flu") then a trip to the doctor might be prudent if you are in one of the risk groups. But they wont prescribe you antibiotics they will prescribe an antiviral.

Mickeroo · 24-10-2018 10:47AM

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

If your chest infection was not caused by a bacterial infection the it is pointless giving you antibiotics. Antibiotics dont work on viral infections which can also cause chest infections. Unfortunately most GPs just prescribe antibiotics for a chest infection without checking if it is bacterial or viral in nature. The sooner that GPs realise that this is mostly useless the better.

https://www.nice.org.uk/guidance/cg69/evidence/full-guideline-196853293

I think they already know it's useless but it's easier to give people antibiiotics than deal with irate patients who think they need them.

The Bishop Basher · 24-10-2018 10:52AM

It’s worse on the continent.

I work with a few French and Germans who go to the doc at the mere thought of a sniffle and always seem to get antibiotics for it.

They stopped working for me years ago so I stopped taking them. I’ve never had so few colds and infections since and I was plagued with chest infections growing up. I’ve lots of other health issues and meds now but my body fights infection much better since I stopped taking antibiotics.

I’m convinced big the drug companies are making us sick so they can make us well again..

As always, follow the money

24-10-2018 10:52AM

Would it be legal that they didn't? No. Therefore, they're the same.

murpho999 · 24-10-2018 10:58AM

Floppybits wrote: »

Jaysus I started with a chest infection and now I have bacterial infection next I will heading down to the undertakers to sort out my funeral.

Who goes to the doctor with a cold? Surely people can tell the difference between a cold and a chest infection?

You need to understand that all infections are from bacteria.

Below is from the HSE website. Link is here.

Although treatment from a GP for acute bronchitis is rarely necessary, there may be times when you should see your GP.

Your GP will not routinely prescribe antibiotic treatment for acute bronchitis for a number of important reasons:

Most cases of acute bronchitis are caused by viral infections, which means that antibiotics will have no effect.
You are almost as likely to experience a side effect from taking antibiotics, such as vomiting and diarrhoea, as you are to receive any benefit from the treatment.
The more antibiotics are used to treat mild conditions, the greater the likelihood that the bacteria will develop resistance to antibiotics and go on to cause more serious infections.
Many experts believe that the reason there are so many dangerous strains of antibiotic-resistant bacteria, such as MRSA and multi-drug resistance tuberculosis (MDR-TB), is because antibiotics have been overused in the past to treat mild conditions.

GPs here do give out anti biotics too much as stated above.

I'm always wary of people saying they have chest infections as it's just a bad cold that antibiotics have no impact on.

Somedaythefire · 24-10-2018 11:00AM

Floppybits wrote: »

Jaysus I started with a chest infection and now I have bacterial infection next I will heading down to the undertakers to sort out my funeral.

Who goes to the doctor with a cold? Surely people can tell the difference between a cold and a chest infection?

If you didn't have a bacterial infection you just wasted your money on antibiotics.

ohnonotgmail · 24-10-2018 11:02AM

murpho999 wrote: »

You need to understand that NOT all infections are from bacteria.

Below is from the HSE website. Link is here.

GPs here do give out anti biotics too much as stated above.

I'm always wary of people saying they have chest infections as it's just a bad cold that antibiotics have no impact on.

FYP

24-10-2018 11:04AM

Why have they all come out of this morning, was there a conspiracy convention yesterday or something.

Generic medicines contain the exact ingredients as branded.

ohnonotgmail · 24-10-2018 11:05AM

mariaalice wrote: »

Why have they all come out of this morning, was there a conspiracy convention yesterday or something.

Generic medicines contain the exact ingredients as branded.

To be specific they contain the same ACTIVE ingredient as the branded version. They dont necessarily contain the same fillers or the same delivery method.

murpho999 · 24-10-2018 11:07AM

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

FYP

Yes there are viral infections but they cannot be treated by anti-biotics.

ohnonotgmail · 24-10-2018 11:10AM

murpho999 wrote: »

Yes there are viral infections but they cannot be treated by anti-biotics.

Exactly. Blanket prescribing of antibiotics for chest infections is nonsense.

optimist16 · 24-10-2018 11:33AM

does anyone else think Augmentin has become popular with GPs?

24-10-2018 11:35AM

Floppybits wrote: »

Who goes to the doctor with a cold? Surely people can tell the difference between a cold and a chest infection?

I wish that was true. But one of the issues we have in the medical space is we see people going to the doctors for the most mundane things.

Worse however is many patients self diagnose and demand the drugs _they_ think will help them. One of the problems we have is with over use of Anti Biotics for example. And it has been suggested doctors prescribe them because their patients literally demand them or take their business elsewhere.

I have heard - anecdotally so treat it as such - of patients even being diagnosed with a virus and still demanding an Anti Biotic be prescribed. Given those drugs kill bacteria not viruses - this is often a demand born of nothing but sheer and complete ignorance.

ohnonotgmail · 24-10-2018 11:38AM

optimist16 wrote: »

does anyone else think Augmentin has become popular with GPs?

It is become more popular because over-prescription of antibiotics has led to strains of bacteria resistant to earlier antibiotics like amoxycillin.

gctest50 · 24-10-2018 11:42AM

And that's why we'll have Antibiotic Armageddon by about : 2050

People will be wandering around with bits falling off, oozing pus n stuff - whoever thought up the idea of zombies wasn't too far off

seamus · 24-10-2018 11:46AM

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

If you actually have influenza (and not just a bad cold or "man flu") then a trip to the doctor might be prudent if you are in one of the risk groups. But they wont prescribe you antibiotics they will prescribe an antiviral.

That's a bit absolute, tbh.

Many still prescribe antibiotics on a preventative basis. There is such considerable crossover between symptoms of many illnesses, including 'flu and a severe chest infection, which are very difficult to effectively identify in a 15-minute session.

So patient presents with 'flu, thinking they have a chest infection. Doctors prescribes anti-Bs', worst-case scenario they do nothing and the flu resolves itself.

Some doctors might say, "You probably have the 'flu, go home to bed and come back to me a in week if you're not feeling any better". Others will take the scattergun approach.

ohnonotgmail · 24-10-2018 11:52AM

seamus wrote: »

That's a bit absolute, tbh.

Many still prescribe antibiotics on a preventative basis. There is such considerable crossover between symptoms of many illnesses, including 'flu and a severe chest infection, which are very difficult to effectively identify in a 15-minute session.

So patient presents with 'flu, thinking they have a chest infection. Doctors prescribes anti-Bs', worst-case scenario they do nothing and the flu resolves itself.

Some doctors might say, "You probably have the 'flu, go home to bed and come back to me a in week if you're not feeling any better". Others will take the scattergun approach.

The worst case scenario is that we end up with more antibiotic resistant strains because of unnecessary prescribing. If a GP cannot tell the difference between a chest infection and influenza they should not be in practice.

Mrs OBumble · 24-10-2018 11:53AM

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

To be specific they contain the same ACTIVE ingredient as the branded version. They dont necessarily contain the same fillers or the same delivery method.

This.

He who snores in my bed had massive side effects from a generic version a few years ago. Tried the non-generic and it wasn't nearly so extreme.

Not an anti-biotic either. And he wasn't pauing himself so not subject to the higher price means better illusion.

Thoie · 24-10-2018 11:53AM

Yes.

Generic drugs work.

optimist16 · 24-10-2018 11:57AM

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

It is become more popular because over-prescription of antibiotics has led to strains of bacteria resistant to earlier antibiotics like amoxycillin.

I've never had a problem with any meds but can't take Augmentin as I'm immediately sick. Knowing how important it is to finish the course, I wonder how many other people are only partially taking it.

ohnonotgmail · 24-10-2018 12:00PM

optimist16 wrote: »

I've never had a problem with any meds but can't take Augmentin as I'm immediately sick. Knowing how important it is to finish the course, I wonder how many other people are only partially taking it.

that would probably be the clavulanic acid in augmentin. It makes the drug effective against strains resistant to the likes of amoxicillin but also makes the side effects worse.

LirW · 24-10-2018 12:06PM

A few months ago we talked about that in another thread and a few women experienced the same:
A while ago a certain birth control pill was out of stock in many pharmacies in the country. Women were given a generic instead, which was 1 euro cheaper, and all were told it's the exact same thing. Now it did the job and I'm not pregnant but there were side effects in those 2 months I never had on the original pill. I thought I'm crazy but then read that others were having the same issue. Back on the other pill everything was fine again.

My partner had something similar with his medication. There are a few generics out there and he tried 3 different ones. Only one really worked for him, the others had unpleasant side effects like knocking the libido out completely.

seamus · 24-10-2018 12:15PM

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

The worst case scenario is that we end up with more antibiotic resistant strains because of unnecessary prescribing. If a GP cannot tell the difference between a chest infection and influenza they should not be in practice.

Ah here, I know that. From the GP's point of view, there is little to be lost for them, in prescribing that course. Getting doctors to think about the big picture is a problem, they're human too.

I say this in a non-accusatory way; are you a GP? I think definitively (or even effectively) discerning a 'flu from a bad cold or a chest infection, when you have nothing but self-reported symptoms, a stethoscope and 15 minutes, is a lot more difficult than anyone would expect.

Of course, some doctors are phoning it in, that's true. But we do have an issue of expectations where people believe that a doctor who makes a mistake, makes educated guesses, or tries a multi-pronged approach to treatment, isn't fit to practice. Which isn't the case.

ohnonotgmail · 24-10-2018 12:18PM

seamus wrote: »

Ah here, I know that. From the GP's point of view, there is little to be lost for them, in prescribing that course. Getting doctors to think about the big picture is a problem, they're human too.

I say this in a non-accusatory way; are you a GP? I think definitively (or even effectively) discerning a 'flu from a bad cold or a chest infection, when you have nothing but self-reported symptoms, a stethoscope and 15 minutes, is a lot more difficult than anyone would expect.

Of course, some doctors are phoning it in, that's true. But we do have an issue of expectations where people believe that a doctor who makes a mistake, makes educated guesses, or tries a multi-pronged approach to treatment, isn't fit to practice. Which isn't the case.

I've had the flu, actual proper doctor diagnosed flu, that knocked me down for a week and i have have chest infections. the symptoms are very different. about the only thing they have in common is a high temperature.

optimist16 · 24-10-2018 12:36PM

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

that would probably be the clavulanic acid in augmentin. It makes the drug effective against strains resistant to the likes of amoxicillin but also makes the side effects worse.

I've been to a GP in a different area twice in 20 years to get amoxicillin. The second time because my own GP would only prescribe Augmentin. I also had a bad do after a flight abroad and took myself off to the chemist where I purchased it straight over the counter. I've only needed them four times in my life and hope never to again!! Shoot me now

but I'm not a pill popper or hypochondriac. Surely better to finish the course?

I've seen the people with Augmentin with no more than a cold. It's still amoxicillin. Not sure why I couldn't have the real stuff that I could keep down.

ohnonotgmail · 24-10-2018 12:39PM

optimist16 wrote: »

I've been to a GP in a different area twice in 20 years to get amoxicillin. The second time because my own GP would only prescribe Augmentin. I also had a bad do after a flight abroad and took myself off to the chemist where I purchased it straight over the counter. I've only needed them four times in my life and hope never to again!! Shoot me now but I'm not a pill popper or hypochondriac. Surely better to finish the course?

I've seen the people with Augmentin with no more than a cold. It's still amoxicillin. Not sure why I couldn't have the real stuff that I could keep down.

Augmentin is amoxicillin PLUS clavulanic acid. And you should ALWAYS finish the course.

Do generic drugs work?

Comments