So Michael D IS running again!

Silentcorner · 22-10-2018 11:14pm

Loafing Oaf wrote: »

Yeah but it’s limerick. Be like calling the American presidential election based on a poll in the Alabama leader.

You sound like an informed individual, would you care to explain that statement for me?

blanch152 · 22-10-2018 11:14pm

Rhineshark wrote: »

Yeah, that's all true, it is difficult. Because people are complicated (which is why, tbh, I prefer science which is much easier). I am not expert enough to tell you how many is enough, but researchers have found a consensus. However, given genetic distinctions, a noticeably different (and old) culture and a distinct language form branching off from Irish, plus a distinct identification with the rest of said group distinct from the rest of the Irish population more than fulfils those caveats. Far more than Scousers, Cockneys, South Kerrymen or Dubs (I am still unsure where you are getting some of these. What are your sources for fulfilling the conditions that indicate distinct ethnic grouping?)

Well, I doubt you are sure of the first. Given ethnographers and anthropologists have been interested in the question of culture and identity for a very long time, they probably have a pretty good idea. Under rules accepted enough to be default for publishing academic papers, which is what the decision was based on, they meet the conditions. (If genetics, language and a distinctly different way of life aren't markers of ethnic distinction btw, what *would* you count?)

Yes, Casey can challenge whatever likes, and people are fully entitled to think he's an idiot when he's wrong. Sure, ethnic identity is wooly around the edges. As is psychology. If Casey had said that mental illness doesn't exist and mentally ill people are just idle spongers, surely he is, by your logic, at least arguably right. How many markers of mental illness are enough? How do you define a completely well person? It can't be strictly measured so its all subjective and can be challenged by anyone, no? There's grey areas but working and generally accepted rules, as there is regarding ethnicity. Although since people have historically been inclined to try kill each other over ethnicity, a bit of constructive ambiguity might be wise.

When a man running for President suddenly decides to randomly go after the validity of a groups identity when best evidence (and the working rules) indicates they are indeed a distinct group - and goes twice when he's ignorant of the basis for it anyway - he is not "starting a national discussion". He's dogwhistling.

So yeah, he can say it. And he'll get some supporters. And he'll hurt some people. And other people will hear him and think him cynical, ignorant and/or an ass. He was on 1% so not like losses of people probably not voting for him mattered anyway. That people called him out on what he said is not unfair, it is the basic corrollery to free speech.

I have read the academic paper and I am not convinced. Ethnicity shouldn't arise from xenophobia or prejudice.

You are free to disagree, but there is no standard, which makes me position valid, maybe not equally valid, but valid nonetheless.

blanch152 · 22-10-2018 11:18pm

Dia1988 wrote: »

Here's my evidence Leo Varadkar advising voters to steer clear of voting Casey.

https://www.limerickleader.ie/poll/home/343353/leader-poll-who-are-you-voting-for-in-the-upcoming-presidential-election.html

RTE Claire Byrne defending MDH on his 10k dog grooming expenses from "a phone call they just received"

Least we forget MDH couldn't be bothered to even turn up to the debate as RTEs Claire Byrne will do the defending for dear aul Michael.

For the record, I don't want Peter Casey to be President, I used to be a fan of MDH but he's showing complete arrogance on this election. If I was in the country to vote I'd be voting Liadh Ní Riada, MEP, Gaelgeoir and quite a strong passionate speaker!

Why can't Varadkar tell voters to steer clear of Casey?

It is unbelievable how one side want to shut up Varadkar for speaking ill of Casey and the other want to shut up Casey for allegedly speaking ill of travellers and welfare recipients.

Stunning, would almost make me vote for Casey in the Presidential election and Varadkar in the next general election.

Rhineshark · 22-10-2018 11:41pm

blanch152 wrote: »

I have read the academic paper and I am not convinced. Ethnicity shouldn't arise from xenophobia or prejudice.

You are free to disagree, but there is no standard, which makes me position valid, maybe not equally valid, but valid nonetheless.

No, there is a standard. You may not agree with it. You may think it should be changed. You may have a completely different idea of ethnicity. (You have never clarified what you base ethnicity on so I'm really not sure where you stand). But your not agreeing with it does not mean there is no standard.

Not sure where xenophobia and prejudice came from there. I was talking about genetics, language, culture, lifestyle and identity...

CrabRevolution · 23-10-2018 12:13am

I also can't help but notice that the people saying Varadkar should know his place and that the Taoiseach somehow has no right to comment on Irish politics are the same ones saying that it's about time the President pushes the boundaries of their role and publicly comment on whatever they see fit, whether it be travellers, homelessness etc.

Bit of a contradiction there.

McMurphy · 23-10-2018 7:30am

CrabRevolution wrote: »

I also can't help but notice that the people saying Varadkar should know his place and that the Taoiseach somehow has no right to comment on Irish politics are the same ones saying that it's about time the President pushes the boundaries of their role and publicly comment on whatever they see fit, whether it be travellers, homelessness etc.

Bit of a contradiction there.

About as much of a contradiction as suggesting it's pointless/hopeless voting for Casey because even if he gets elected, he won't be able to change anything.

Because another 7 years of MDH will be a big change too.

Contradiction or hypocritical?

Tell me how · 23-10-2018 7:36am

Johnny Dogs wrote:

About as much of a contradiction as suggesting it's pointless/hopeless voting for Casey because even if he gets elected, he won't be able to change anything.

Because another 7 years of MDH will be a big change too.

Contradiction or hypocritical?

Neither. I'm.voting for MDH for president because I don't want change in how the office operates from how it has done over the last 7 years.

VinLieger · 23-10-2018 8:23am

Johnny Dogs wrote: »

About as much of a contradiction as suggesting it's pointless/hopeless voting for Casey because even if he gets elected, he won't be able to change anything.

Because another 7 years of MDH will be a big change too.

Contradiction or hypocritical?

I think its more you completely either not understanding or more likely simply misrepresenting the reasons people are voting for michael D.

Also you should read articles 12-14 of the constitution.

Rhineshark · 23-10-2018 8:31am

Johnny Dogs wrote: »

About as much of a contradiction as suggesting it's pointless/hopeless voting for Casey because even if he gets elected, he won't be able to change anything.

Because another 7 years of MDH will be a big change too.

Contradiction or hypocritical?

...No, this is more just "understanding the strict limitations of the role of Irish President".

If you want to vote for *change*, vote in the general election. We're currently voting for a mouthpiece whose job it is to sound intelligent and friendly as a representative of Ireland.

Pussyhands · 23-10-2018 8:43am

Miggledy going again for the pres just shows how much of a waste of time it is.

He'll be 84 in 7 years and may have died by then....so he's basically gone his whole life without a retirement. You'd think after a whole life in politics he'd want some time off to enjoy his family etc. Just goes to show he's getting all that right now. Don't give me guff about he's making an impact etc. If Miggledy wasn't there the country would be in the same place it is now.

Tell me how · 23-10-2018 8:48am

Pussyhands wrote:

Miggledy going again for the pres just shows how much of a waste of time it is.

How does it. He still has to fulfil the duties of the role.

Pussyhands wrote:

He'll be 84 in 7 years and may have died by then....so he's basically gone his whole life without a retirement. You'd think after a whole life in politics he'd want some time off to enjoy his family etc. Just goes to show he's getting all that right now. Don't give me guff about he's making an impact etc. If Miggledy wasn't there the country would be in the same place it is now.

It's not a challenging role, but I believe it does help showcase our country in a positive way and ensures we deal with all visitors with respect. Which helps our standing internationally.

I'm not suggesting that no one else could do it but do feel that MDH does it very well, and have no interest in sine have a go hero president thinking they can change the country if they get the job.

FrancieBrady · 23-10-2018 8:50am

Pussyhands wrote: »

He'll be 84 in 7 years and may have died by then..

Unfortunately many of us (all of us actually) are exposed to the same risk to varying degrees.
Not for me or you to decide the exact likelihood.

Jackman25 · 23-10-2018 8:58am

Rhineshark wrote: »

...No, this is more just "understanding the strict limitations of the role of Irish President".

If you want to vote for *change*, vote in the general election. We're currently voting for a mouthpiece whose job it is to sound intelligent and friendly as a representative of Ireland.

Vote for who in the general election in order to vote for change?
The far left head bangers?

Pussyhands · 23-10-2018 8:58am

Tell me how wrote: »

How does it. He still has to fulfil the duties of the role.

It's not a challenging role, but I believe it does help showcase our country in a positive way and ensures we deal with all visitors with respect. Which helps our standing internationally.

I'm not suggesting that no one else could do it but do feel that MDH does it very well, and have no interest in sine have a go hero president thinking they can change the country if they get the job.

300k + expenses for something that doesn't have an effect and it's clearly such a soft job that a man is willing to go his whole life without a retirement.

I don't see how Miggledy going abroad does anything for the country. I'm sure we've had many heads of states here that no one has even realised they've been here.

No one can actually prove the role is important. It's all "respect and dignity" but people need to say what impact he has made. More jobs? Less violence? What exactly?

VinLieger · 23-10-2018 9:06am

Pussyhands wrote: »

It's all "respect and dignity" but people need to say what impact he has made. More jobs? Less violence? What exactly?

Continuing to not understand the constitutional role i see.....

Pussyhands · 23-10-2018 9:25am

VinLieger wrote: »

Continuing to not understand the constitutional role i see.....

Don't need a president for that.

mrbrianj · 23-10-2018 9:33am

Pussyhands wrote: »

Don't need a president for that.

"Appointment of the Taoiseach, members of the Government, judges and other officials;

Summoning and dissolving the Dáil, and convening the Oireachtas;

Signing legislation into law and/or referring Bills to the Supreme Court;"

The above are things that we do need a president for as required by Bunreacht na hÉireann.
In fairness there is lots of ceremony and its a lot about making us feel good about ourselves, which anybody could do (should be able to do), but you dont want a celebrity ego driven headbanger if there is a controversial law or some other constitutional crisis. We will be in a different world post Brexit let alone 7 years time - can you imagine Casey's form of diplomacy or Gallagher river dancing tripe trying to patch up relations with a troubled NI/UK

VinLieger · 23-10-2018 9:40am

Pussyhands wrote: »

Don't need a president for that.

Well according to the constitution we do????

Who would you prefer signs bills into law?
Convenes and dissolves the Dail?
To be supreme commander of our defence forces?
T represents us on a national level as effectively our head diplomat and accepts and accredits all foreign diplomats appointed to Ireland?

And thats just a few of their responsibilities

If you don't understand the need for a constitutional safety valve such as the president specifically regarding the Dail then I don't think there's much hope for you.

McMurphy · 23-10-2018 9:42am

Tell me how wrote: »

Neither. I'm.voting for MDH for president because I don't want change in how the office operates from how it has done over the last 7 years.

Higgins nor Casey could prevent neither, the president of Ireland is the people's president, and implementation or prevention of change in how their role or the role of their office is not within eithers remit.

So if at a later point it is decided the role, or terms of office should be changed, they'll be pwlowerless to stop it anyway.

I'd abolish the role personally if it was up to me, so Casey as a protest vote will suit me well.

blackwhite · 23-10-2018 10:14am

I saw Leo and a few other FG reps out canvassing for MDH at Stephens Green this morning.

I’m sure we’ll get a twitter rant from Casey about it at some stage today - how dare people campaign for someone else!!

Hotblack Desiato · 23-10-2018 10:47am

Pussyhands wrote: »

He'll be 84 in 7 years and may have died by then...

Martin McGuinness was a lot younger in 2011 but didn't last the 7 years.

realdanbreen · 23-10-2018 11:04am

I wonder will MichaelD be asked about his daughters appointment to the Seanad ?

FrancieBrady · 23-10-2018 11:08am

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

Martin McGuinness was a lot younger in 2011 but didn't last the 7 years.

An answer that would have propelled you to top of the class in my day!

Topgear on Dave · 23-10-2018 11:09am

realdanbreen wrote: »

I wonder will MichaelD be asked about his daughters appointment to the Seanad ?

She was elected on the NUI panel and is not an appointment.

Doesnt look like corruption to me, she is obviously well connected and well educated but I would expect that.

Rhineshark · 23-10-2018 11:25am

realdanbreen wrote: »

I wonder will MichaelD be asked about his daughters appointment to the Seanad ?

Almost certainly by Casey if he's paid enough attention to know about it, which I doubt.

It'll be complete rubbish unless they are suggesting that Higgins moonlights as a hypnotist and made the NUI panel vote for her but Casey doesn't need or work in facts, only insinuations. Doubt any of the rest are quite brazen enough to try it.

If anyone wants to argue that, please let me know what his foundation is for insinuating that the Irish public pays for Higgins' dogs...

Cork Boy 53 · 23-10-2018 11:32am

Rhineshark wrote: »

Almost certainly by Casey if he's paid enough attention to know about it, which I doubt.

It'll be complete rubbish unless they are suggesting that Higgins moonlights as a hypnotist and made the NUI panel vote for her but Casey doesn't need or work in facts, only insinuations. Doubt any of the rest are quite brazen enough to try it.

If anyone wants to argue that, please let me know what his foundation is for insinuating that the Irish public pays for Higgins' dogs...

I would imagine that Higgins will be again scrutinised about his use of the government jet which is the only genuine area where he may have a case to answer. The so called nepotism about his daughter`s appointment is just bunkum IMO.

Rhineshark · 23-10-2018 12:12pm

Cork Boy 53 wrote: »

I would imagine that Higgins will be again scrutinised about his use of the government jet which is the only genuine area where he may have a case to answer. The so called nepotism about his daughter`s appointment is just bunkum IMO.

I've no issue at all with scrutinizing expenses and use of the plane, that's completely above-board to do and indeed the responsible thing to do. I have no patience at all with lies or insinuations with no back up just for the sake of mud-flinging though.

Casey seems to think he's running in the US elections where bullsh*t for votes/attention appears to be accepted. It's very irritating.

Anyone know when the poll is released? Heard there was o e due today.

An Ciarraioch · 23-10-2018 12:13pm

Evidently, Casey has given up trying to promote himself:

https://mobile.twitter.com/CaseyPeterJ/status/1054659988231258112

Tell me how · 23-10-2018 12:27pm

An Ciarraioch wrote: »

Evidently, Casey has given up trying to promote himself:

https://mobile.twitter.com/CaseyPeterJ/status/1054659988231258112

He should be flat out embarassed at producing such sh*t as part of an election campaign.

No wonder he said on a debate he can afford to lose what it is costing him to run.
That figure is probably only about €5k.

Loafing Oaf · 23-10-2018 12:27pm

FrancieBrady wrote: »

An answer that would have propelled you to top of the class in my day!

Douglas Hyde was older than MDH is now when he took office and lasted a full term. Do I get a gold star too?:p

So Michael D IS running again!

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