A/R/tist in the spotlight - Testosterscone

Annie get your Run wrote: »

Delighted to see this!

- You seem to have an endless amount of good grace and patience, which isn't really a question, more of an observation and a 'thank you' I guess.

- How would you best advise someone to ditch the technology and run by feel?

- It's a bit soon yet but are you already thinking about when to get your son running ?

- Are there people who are just not cut out to be runners and if so, what would your advise to them be?

- What are your thoughts on the explosion of parkrun?

Regarding technology off top of my group running cross country and running cues some good starting places ultimately though practice makes perfect.

Regarding my son running it would be nice to share that with him but ultimately I refuse to push for it. Want him to be active and involved in sport but ultimately his own passion will keep him there so needs to be his choice. Have seen what pushy parent syndrome can do and as such live by the rule never coach your own. It’s impossible to separate supportive parent with concerned coach and you don’t give the child a chance to switch off outside of training.

The sport is so diverse I don’t think you can rule out running some may need more work on co-ordination etc but ultimately everyone can run, a shot putter often has great explosive power to sprint short distances as an example off the top of my head

Park run is great and a health movement but ultimately I think it’s bad for the sport as it’s stretching the usual suspects who give time to clubs as coaches volunteers etc as they tend to be the same people who steward at PR. I think AAI/UKA are piggy backing the movement for the sake of inflating participation figures for grants etc to tick a box for government mandates

Mellow Yellow 26.2 wrote: »

Whats your opinion on lactate threshold testing for average club runners to find training paces? A bit over kill?

True lactate testing can be great (I am talking about training dictated by blood values taken during the session) but ultimately Lab based LT testing has its limitations much like any other technology so in that sense it would be how you use it rather than the validity of it in isolation

Someone going into the tests are generally well rested in the absence of daily life stresses as such the HR / pace equivalencies don’t always correlate much like a pace doesn’t. Also have to factor in that threshold training is a bit I a myth training at 10k pace can have a benefit to your threshold so exact paces aren’t crucial.

Brings on to a good point that a lot of the training principles and research are based on full time athletes who will not have elevated cortisol levels from the likes of work stress etc and generally better hormone balance due to adequate rest which does not also transfer perfectly to real world application for ordinary Joe Soaps

Mellow Yellow 26.2 wrote: »

What advice would you give a athlete in this position?

I’ll come back to this later when I get a chance to do the question a bit of justice

AuldManKing wrote: »

(1) Who's your favourite out of me, DD & Swashbuckler

Your all special snowflakes (though if I was a social media influencer would have to do a collaboration it would have to be the man with the Tan simply for his kudos following

AuldManKing wrote: »

(2) Do you realise that we await your 'kudo's' on strava and if it doesn't arrive, we fear we've messed up the workout.

Admittedly I have dropped the ball in recent times with some emails, texts and kudos so apologies to all

Don’t worry though you know yourself if you mess up you are told ðŸ˜

AuldManKing wrote: »

(3) Whats the qualities of an ideal athlete (from a coaching perspective).

Ambitious, realistic, level headed, willing to listen, open to trying new things and process driven more so than goal (aim to improve by any means necessary rather than I want to hit X I’m willing to do Y get me from A to

AuldManKing wrote: »

(4) Have you ever 'copy and pasted' workouts into someones plan as you were under pressure?

Wouldn’t say copy and pasted as such. Most week structures are copied from previous one and details changed so there can be errors (like the one in your plan this week)

I have thought at times when doing up someone’s plan that session I gave someone else would work well for them to but it’s always taken in context of the overall goals

Would rather send a plan late that send a cookie cutter template

AuldManKing wrote: »

(5) What/how do you develop your training methods?

I remember tergat talking previously about coaching and came out with a great line as coaches we read learn and steal anything and everything we can as a coach. I am always looking at training plans learning from others as I mentioned before I feel I learn as much from bad training as I do good at times Strava let’s run, interviews etc it’s all info to be analysed and processed

From there it’s about learning about the runner you are working with the longer you work with an athlete the better you begin to understand what makes them tick

AuldManKing wrote: »

(6) Marathon training - whats your views on multiple (6 or 7) 20 milers for a sub 3 athlete?

Depends on the context most sub 3 aspirants don’t have the years of mikes background to be doing 20 miles that regularly and those that do sometimes you have to question what stimulus are they getting from it.

Long run should be maintained at a general level that could be done week in and week out without taking too much out of them for most that is at a mileage much lower

AuldManKing wrote: »

I'm 99.99% certain that Tergat has never been in the same room as Tinman from "Lets run" & Tom Schwartz, coach of Drew Hunter.

Having met the man in real life I will neither confirm or deny

(Nothing to do with he mandatory NDA signed prior to meeting him haha)

Gent of a man though

Duanington wrote: »

1 - Top 3 mistakes you see long distance runners make?

1. Run too fast every day as "easy" this is usually one of the first things I correct when people start with me, some fight it but if they do buy in the are usually converted within the first 6-8 weeks

2. Bounce from Marathon to Marathon plan (let me clarify before Dublin Runner gets here as I know he would disagree)Yes that is what most elites do but many of them are coming from years of running multiple distances. Most don't have an athletic background in Irish running as such will normally forgo, drills, flexibility, strength and conditioning and shy away from anything under 5k pace. Think of it as building a car if all you do is keep tinkering with the engine and throw one gear in its not gonna be able to use that power. For example I had some of my athletes go from Cross Country to 1500m indoors and then work up to the marathon over the last 12 months. Mileage didn't hugely differ but the sessions gave each of the runners and extra dynamic and made them a bit more robust.


3. Ties into the last one but mileage as a metric for good training. Don't get me wrong this is not a criticism of high mileage in fact I think it's crucial but you should only be doing as much mileage as you can handle while still training in a well rounded program. 100 mile a week doesn't count for feck all if your not improving. Mileage can paper over the cracks definitely and as such it is the easy options for most (more miles = better) simply because most of us could do with more aerobic endurance but it is not the only thing.

I remember Ger Hartmann making a statement that majority of runners would see more benefit swapping in a day of S and C instead of an extra 40 min run. I do believe that, not because I feel we are running too much (in fact most of us aren't running enough) but simply because we are not doing enough of the rest. The old school brigade will state they never did gym or supplementary stuff etc and they are right but majority of them were alot more active than we are today and were probably doing more for their conditioning day to day that many of us do in gym to offset the office lifestyles etc

Duanington wrote: »

2 - Athletes come to you in various stages of their development, what are the most common "fixes" you need to work on

As mentioned before alot of time it is slowing them down, try and get on to them get a feel for the efforts more so than pace prescribed in sessions, ideally introduce a little bit of strides, drills etc and ultimately just try and change the mindset somewhat. There is always a push to get people to try track and XC but I don't force anyone.

Duanington wrote: »

3 - What's next when you get back on track with your own running?

No plans atm the main focus is on getting fit enough to train again and get consistency back this was probably the worst stint of training I have had in years the last 2 months so just trying to get it back into my life without biting off more than I can chew. Easy miles and gym work for the forseeable

Duanington wrote: »

4 - Do you listen to your own advice?

Yes and no. I would never advise anyone something I wouldn't follow myself however I am an overthinker and sometimes I come at things from all angles with myself as I have all the info that I end up conflicting with myself. Half the reason why I started working with Mick as a coach was to take it out of my hands to an extent and have a sounding board to give objectivity. It's probably a trait which has made me good at coaching others but poor at coaching myself.

Duanington wrote: »

5 - Junior parkrun, a good thing or not?

Controversial :P

If it attracted kids to increase activity yes but the ones that are doing it tend to already be active so I don't think it has the same lifestyle impact as it does for adults. In my experience as well many of the children tend to be products of the people who have turned there lives around through parkrun themselves and while that can be commendable they are missing out on the fundamental movement skills developed through club training. LTAD is something I feel is important to children (and something I feel is missing in many adult marathoners as well) I would prefer them to avoid the same mistakes and develop in to well rounded active children that can cope with training when they are old enough to be able to train in a structured sense. For me a game of British Bulldog or Snatch the bacon is actually more beneficial to a childs development than a parkrun.

Gonna break these up a little so I can go through them properly

dna_leri wrote: »

On Coaching:
What do you think is wrong with athletics coaching in Ireland (if anything)?

I don't think club coaches are getting supported. This issue probably goes beyond this to club cultures in general but the rise in member numbers is inversely proportional to the amount of time people are willing to give to help. We are all so time poor these days that often families are coming down to clubs dropping off the kids with their coach and train in there groups with another coach and then are no where to be seen when stewards, officials, coaches, committee members or fundraisers are needed. The same people who are coaching are generally doing all of these things as well they are stretched to the point where they are supervising rather than coaching. Ultimately I think the clubs by in large will suffer and the traditional idea of club coaches will die out unless they get support and community mentality creeps back in to clubs (not sure if it is quite as bad in the country v Dublin)

dna_leri wrote: »

Is there a growing division between paid and unpaid coaches

Yes I feel that the unpaid coaches are the ones that actually need the support and aren't getting it and many of the paid coaches have no connection to the sport in a meaningful way but are making a pretty penny.

Aside from the charlatans (I have seen marathon training plans in this country going for +200e) who see people as a source of revenue

There are a few who are making a living from the sport majority who are actually involved themselves many of whom are using it to support themselves. They are the people who have the experience to become the next generations coaches, unfortunately the only people who have the money to pay these coaches are usually the ones who need to focus on doing the simple things well (run more, slow down, learn drills) those diamonds in the rough can't afford this 1 to 1 coaching so with the paid coaches talent identification is a lost factor.

Running is a simple enough sport for the majority of us but if all the top coaches who have the skill to deal with the minute details that could be a huge factor in the highly talents are working to get Joe/Joanne Bloggs from sub 50 to sub 48 for 10k simply because they have to pay the bills it means there is a wave of talent athletes being lost. This is not to demean any athlete of any level. I work with all levels of athlete but the level of influence you can have can widely vary dependent on the athlete in front of you.

It might not seem like a big difference but club coaches can literally change lives. I have seen multiple athletes get scholarship and meet there future partners while away at college, get high paying jobs based of connections made through these scholarship etc. While the running side might not always pan out the scholarship experience and the coaching to get them there can help define there future. If we lose these coaches it can have a detrimental affect not just on club performances but also the lives of many athletes particularly in disadvantage area's

dna_leri wrote: »

What would you do to fix it?

Ideally clubs should have the funds to hire a full time coach someone who treats it like a job, not just supervising sessions but organising training groups, one to one meetings with athletes, organizing workshops in the club, reaching out to injured athletes etc.

Have them evaluated year by year by committee to keep them honest and their performance measurable outside of medals won etc. It is a professional world clubs need to approach it professionally.

dna_leri wrote: »

Which coaching books have most influenced you?

The Lore of Running probably mostly not because it was the best book but because it was the one read when I was starting out coaching getting my bearings around all things training. It didn't pigeon hole any one approach and wasn't trying to back up a plan meaning that read cover to cover without skipping to the plan. Since then many books have reaffirmed many of the topics and it provided the base layer to my learning.

I have come to appreciate Jack Daniels more but I feel that unless you actually watch many of the lectures he has given there is alot lost in translation in the book and the context is crucial as without many who follow the approach dogmatically are in a race to the bottom as it looks too extreme and a recipe for overtraining.

Strength and Conditioning for Endurance Running by Richard Blagrove is one of the best reads for all things ancillary and Science of Running is also a great book in general (minus the poor editing)

dna_leri wrote: »

Has having a child changed your perspective on life?

I don't think it has changed me hugely just yet.

Since he was born we have had huge upheaval and life hasn't settled down just yet so I don't really feel I have had a chance to settle into normal. I think my priorities have definitely changed fundamentally but I think the rest won't become apparent for a few more months when things finally do settle down.

dna_leri wrote: »

What was the last good book you read?

Reading has definitely been neglected as of late. I think the last good book I read was American Gods (Neil Gaiman) well worth a read even if you are not huge into fantasy.

RayCun wrote: »

It's a tricky one.

We pay an S&C coach to draw up training plans and kick off each training block. I'd be happy to pay an expert (x) coach to come in once a month and do a session with the better athletes who could benefit from it.

But we have some very good coaches already who aren't getting paid. How can we pay someone to coach high jump once a month, when there is someone in the club coaching long jump ten times a month for nothing? But then we can't afford to pay someone to coach long jump ten times a month.

Neither could we afford to pay someone a reasonable wage for a full time coaching/organising/whatevering position. I don't think there is enough work for a full-time position either, especially since a lot of the club members are only available outside working hours.

But even a part-time position with reasonable wages is a minefield. It's easy to say there'll be annual evaluations, harder to fire someone when you know they depend on you for a substantial part of their income. Even harder if they've been in the position five years and their life revolves around the club as much as the club revolves around them.

But then you're depending on volunteers, and rounding them up is a job in itself, and there's a conveyor belt of juvenile coaches being persuaded to join, acquiring skills, and leaving when their kids leave...

I do take your point on booting someone after a few years and it could possibly burn through good will of some who would be willing to do the job but if there is money involved sentimentality needs to go out the window and people would be going in with eyes open that there is accountability needed

This is not about making the role attractive for people to have an cushy job it's more about supporting those who are doing this for free anyway.

In terms of amount of work to support a full time role I think majority of clubs have this but they don't have the manpower to implement them and as such are not seen as crucial. I think that if the job is done right it could go a long way in terms of covering the cost

Just as a hypothetical

40 hr per week @ 20,000-22,000 (enough to make it worth while without being seen as a handy number to keep interest with genuine club contributors)

Job role : Athletic director (as opposed to coach)


Duties
* 2 hrs a day 5 days a week -
Taking sessions (Off 2 days a week to open weekend mornings) This is the bread and butter of coaching as we all know it - 10 hours

* Coaching strategy and development
Meeting with coaches, athletes committee to highlight area's to improve the club current structure be it recruitment, upskilling or coaching concerns - 5 hours

* Club PR duties - Answering potential new member mails/FB etc, possible park run recruitment - 5 hours

* School development officer
touch base with schools in local area, aim to develop links with schools and drive new membership - 2 hours

* Club admin - chasing up subscription renewal, competition fees etc - 2 hour

Other possible roles

- Race Organizing committee/ Fundraising activities
- AAI Sports Camps
- Organizing Coaching/ Athlete Workshops

Part of the evaluation doesn't even have to be just coaching but also additional revenues brought into a club through the work. If you make links with schools or park run and drive juvenile/ Adult members or provide extra support to summer camps to be able to facilitate more kids as well as potential new members the revenue offsets this.

400 a week might seem alot to pay someone out of the club coffers but people rarely take into account that by having someone in that position it may well generate an extra 150-200 through increased membership or even shoring up missing income. Maybe an extra 10e to membership and all of a sudden that outlay is not half as bad and the benefits are invaluable.

RayCun wrote: »

Back in my younger days as a lefty activist, I knew a bunch of people in the Socialist Party and Socialist Workers Party. Both had paid employees, mainly to do with their papers IIRC but also just general political work. It always seemed like a bit of a problem to me, because it meant there was a two-tier system and the employee was bound to carry more weight than the volunteer. And then there were huge disagreements when one of them was laid off.

Even in an all-volunteer club, if you have someone in the same position for a long time it can be difficult, some people think they're stuck in their ways, others point to all they've done and all they know. You can get a situation where half the people are not happy if someone is continuing, but half will be unhappy if they're removed. Add money to the mix...

Maybe this is a problem that just has to be dealt with because the alternative is worse, I don't know.

22k a year is not a lot to offer anyone either...

I think that is why an athletic director type role would work. Yes there is more weight on them as part of their paid duties (organizing coaches as opposed to just working with there own group)

I agree with you something like 22k is not alot of money but that is half the point is to have this simply supporting someone with a genuine will to improve and help the club. As mentioned there are people who are doing this anyway for nothing (ala Dick/Pat Hooper or Joe Cooper (Clonliffe) )

Ultimately I think in sports bureaucracy in this country you are always gonna get an element of that whether money is involved or not but I do think there could be more good than bad done if it was implemented right (mind you very hard to convince any club such an expense is worth the risk when there is already a volunteer workforce)

I just think unless drastic measures are taken the club coach is dying out (in particular at a middle to long distance level)