Smear Test Scandal

Whirl_wolle wrote: »

Has anything changed since this scandal came to light? Any changes made to the testing system?


As.I understand it, the problem isn't so much with doctors withholding information, it's because the Irish system wasn't up to scratch. The damage was done with the outsourcing of testing to American where they test yearly. In America, testing slides are looked at and there's more room for error because if precancerous cells aren't picked up then, it can be picked up at the next testing. Whereas here in Ireland testing is every three years and the testing of slides should be more thorough.

Today is probably not the day for this discussion to be honest.
But the above is very incorrect and non factual statements in relation to screening is extremely dangerous and puts people's lives at risk. Screening, including the Irish screening services work, as well as those tests undertaken in the US. There were issues with subcontracting of work, which was not notified to CervicalCheck, but there's no evidence that the quality of the laboratories was less than expected.

There are many nuances and further investigation work going on but the Scoping Inquiry made the following point:

The Scoping Inquiry considers there is no reason, on quality grounds, why the existing contracts for laboratory services should not continue until the new HPV testing regime has been introduced

Anyone involved in this scandal who never spoke up, who was willing to hide behind whatever excuses they deemed reasonable, who had no respect for peoples right to know whats happening to their health should be thoroughly ashamed of themselves.

Politicians find it easy to spew out condolences. To nake promises that things will change. That people will be held responsible. All a load of rubbish. Lies on top of lies.

This woman will be buried and time will move on. Nothing significant will happen. Nothing of any use will be implemented.
Children are without their mother.

So this will possibly draw the ire of a lot of people here, but anyway. First of all, I lost my own Mother to cancer as a teenager so I know what those kids are going through. However, tough as it may be, there has absolutely been a lot of misrepresentation of the facts of this case by media (who played the story up), by politians (who grabbed it for the political capital it offered) & by solicitors (who grabbed it for all the euros it offered).

Some people still appear to think that the Cervical Check scandal is about women who had cancer but failed to be diagnosed of this fact. Not true.

A simplified version:
1. You go for a Cervical Screening test - this analyses cells that MAY give warning signs or risk factors that she could develop cancer at a later date. This is a WIDE net and is never, and probably will never be, 100% accurate. You can get false positives (indicating that you might develop cancer, but never do), or false negatives (where there are no warning signs but you still develop cancer). In fact, these tests can show the cells to be completely clear, but you can still develop cancer later. Yes, I know, cancer is a f***ing c*nt.
2. Anyway, the screening is done and everything appears to be ok.
3. You get cervical cancer. i.e. you are diagnosed with cancer. This is different from cancer screening, which attempts to identify risk factors.
4. At this point, the screening test results are sent back to the labs for an audit. This is done in order to identify what can be improved for future tests. It's an iterative process that would not have changed the cancer diagnosis. In most countries, these audit results are not sent back to the patient, but are kept confidential. In Ireland the results of the audit are sent to the patient. This is where the Scally Report saw problems - communication was crap, doctors were pricks, etc, etc.

The Scally Report also found that in there was nothing wrong with the Cervical Check program, neither was anything done wrong by the companies that were employed to do the tests and the audits. However, the last thing the government wanted was to bring terminally ill women to court, so decided to pay out.

As sad as this case is, I'm not sure these payouts should have been made. That said I'm glad for the kids as I believe these payouts came from the US medical companies, who are all too familiar with sucking cash out of patients in the US, so yeah, f**k them. However, if the taxpayer suddenly has to pay a redress scheme of (as has been reported) 500 million euros, then that's a different story.

Also, there is nothing wrong with the Cervival screen tests, it is a vital service. And of course, coupled with the HPV vaccine means 2018 is a much better place for women in terms of preventing and screening for cervical cancer.

McCrack wrote: »

Well you are missing the point

The women that the screening failed (in some cases more than once) - and it should not have failed if the smears were read properly - they would have been referred for a colposcopy and thereafter if necessary would have commenced active clinical intervention.

Instead what we have are women like Ms Mhic Mhathuna who had delayed treatment and a much poorer outcome than had intervention started earlier.

That is not what was found by the Scally Report.

"The Scoping Inquiry considers there is no reason, on quality grounds, why the existing contracts for laboratory services should not continue until the new HPV testing regime has been introduced."

Section 6.11 - https://health.gov.ie/wp-content/uploads/2018/09/Scoping-Inquiry-into-CervicalCheck-Final_Report.pdf

JP Liz V1 wrote: »

Simon and Leo should hang their heads in shame and resign :mad:

RIP a brave woman taken way too soon

Not making excuses for those two eejits, but the fault does not lie with our politicians alone it lies with the monster that is the HSE and the Dept of Health.
And we the people have allowed it's creation and existence.

Those two politicians weren't even in power when someone decided that the cheaper outsourced US solution was the one to go with despite the protestations of some experts.

And they weren't the ones that decided that the fact there were misdiagnoses that should not be released to the poor women affected.

It is going to be yet another example of the old much trotted out line about systemic failures in the health service.

No one in our health service is ever ever held accountable.

You will hear shouting about politicians holding their heads in shame, but just watch if any politician ever says anything about mismanagement by overpaid health service workers how quickly the sacred cows of over worked doctors and nurses are wheeled out.

Whinging at politicians whilst supporting the vested interests within the health service will surely see us facing more of the same.

Today there are probably the very same people in positions of power in the health service that decided the fate of Emma and the other women.

These health service employees could be your neighbour, they could be your relative and if someone threatens their jobs their union, possibly your union, will back them.
And when there is a strike, when there is a protest about removing staff you will be asked to back the workers against the politicians.

If only one thing comes out of the very unfortunate unnecessary death of this woman and the many others that have faced or will face the same fate, it should be that we finally as a society cop on and back a movement that tackles our unaccountable over inflated over managed health service.

RIP Emma and may her family find some peace.

Amirani wrote: »

This is wrong. It's not that they were not read "properly", the error rate was in-line with screening programs across the World. Abnormalities can be difficult to identify in smears, and no cervical screening test is ever going to 100%, regardless of how long is spent on each smear or who does the reading.

No in the cases of the 221 women identified the smears were indeed misread and the State and Quest Diagnostics have admitted liability in many of the cases brought. There would not have been settlements otherwise.

In Ms mhic mhathunas case they misread her smears not once but twice.

road_high wrote: »

Don't understand how/why it would go up by 300k because of who she was. This isn't how house buying works. If they wanted to rip her off then fck them, there is a huge amount of other cheap property in Co. Kerry.
How could they increase the price after it "was all all agreed"?

Was agreed in principle and the property wasn't in Kerry. Was near where she is from.
You know she got 7.5m and it was clear that she didn't have long left? So the seller thought she would just throw money at the place as it was perfect for her needs.
I've seen plenty of houses in Dublin go up well after the seller has 'agreed' to sell the place to someone, only to be outbid. That's how the property market works.