Minimum alcohol pricing is nigh

Wheres Me Jumper? · 06-10-2018 08:58PM

I disagree, the "drinking problems" are myths from the government.

elperello wrote: »

No problem. Like I say it's not scientific just anecdotal.
I also knew people who drank in teens who became problem drinkers and alcoholics.
I was responding to the idea that the longer you delay the less chance of having issues.

of the most sensible drinkers i know, almost all did not drink in their teens. the context is an important factor i would reckon, but i do agree this is purely anecdotal.

maybe there's a proper study around somewhere?
then maybe French & Italian kids respond differently to Welsh & Irish kids?

hatrickpatrick · 06-10-2018 09:00PM

realitykeeper wrote: »

Justice applies after the fact. I would rather my kid is not killed by a drunk driver in the first place, then there would be no need for a judge to punish the culprit.

A properly functioning justice system is a deterrent to stupid and avoidable crime like getting behind the wheel after drinking. If you knew that you were 100% guaranteed, context be damned, to get a minimum sentence of several months in prison for even one drink driving offense, the vast majority of people would cop on and just not bother risking it.

McMurphy · 06-10-2018 09:04PM

Leroy42 wrote: »

But they are far more likely to have accidents, and thus deaths, when alcohol is involved.

But we do ban drink driving, we have speed limits. It is not always a 100% ban or total freedom.

We also restrict alcohol sales, both time based (selling between certain hours, on certain days) and age restrictions, not to mention the restrictions supposedly in place to try and place restrictions on someone already appearing to be under the influence.

We have went through the looking glass wherein we live in a state where the govt tell us in one breath that they will legislate for MUP for health reasons, but in the previous breath, tell us they'll introduce it to protect the pub industry and try and ensure that industry's viability.

A tax increase on the stuff, and tax raised ringfenced for treatment and education might be a bit more believable than what Is a blatant sop to a group of lobbyists with a vested interest.

Wheres Me Jumper? · 06-10-2018 09:11PM

I disagree, the "drinking problems" are myths from the government.

elperello wrote: »

No problem. Like I say it's not scientific just anecdotal.
I also knew people who drank in teens who became problem drinkers and alcoholics.
I was responding to the idea that the longer you delay the less chance of having issues.

Here is the full study,
https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanpub/article/PIIS2468-2667(17)30240-2/fulltext?elsca1=tlpr

The Rape of Lucretia · 06-10-2018 09:55PM

Johnny Dogs wrote: »

It's not only drunk drivers who kill kids.

Let's ban cars.

38% of all road deaths in Ireland are alcohol related.

Thats still a shockingly high influence on road tragedy despite a strong improvement on this issue of the last few decades.

McMurphy · 06-10-2018 11:17PM

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

38% of all road deaths in Ireland are alcohol related.

.

Shocking statistic altogether. No doubt.

I wonder how many involved folk having a few glasses of wine or beer in the house, travelling back home to the... um house?

And I wonder how many were caused by folks getting tanked up in the bar going home?

Mr. teddywinkles · 07-10-2018 09:03AM

end of the road wrote: »

given that those who will get tanked up before they go out will continue to do so, no

except they can and will. if they want to drink a certain amount, they will just spend more money on it.

that's not a problem. people who are responsible don't want to be forced by the government to pay more for something because of others being irresponsible, when they know little to no difference will be made via having to pay more. they also don't want to be forced by the government to pay more for something, when they know the reason they are paying more is in a misguided attempt by the government to try and protect 1 part of the alcohol industry, the vintners, by attempting to price people back into their pubs, something which is also not going to work, because in reality the pub doesn't offer what these people want, and the pub is not willing to offer it. they also don't want to be forced by the government to pay more for something when the people they are buying it from will get to keep that money, when in actual fact the money raised could go toards addiction services and other support services for those genuinely effected by alcohol.

the thing is, ireland has a tiny population compared to those countries, so we cannot say for definite that our rate and their rates are caused by each other's respective attitudes.

Your point on people getting tanked up before going out is very true due to it still being cheaper than the pub. So unless ya price it higher than your local. People will most definitely keep doing this. Funny thing is if a pint was reasonably priced in the pubs. Ya wouldn't have this horsing of drink into ya before a nite out.

suicide_circus · 07-10-2018 09:16AM

Mr. teddywinkles wrote: »

Your point on people getting tanked up before going out is very true due to it still being cheaper than the pub. So unless ya price it higher than your local. People will most definitely keep doing this. Funny thing is if a pint was reasonably priced in the pubs. Ya wouldn't have this horsing of drink into ya before a nite out.

no one pre drinks if they're heading out to a Wetherspoons

realitykeeper · 07-10-2018 09:55AM

Johnny Dogs wrote: »

It's not only drunk drivers who kill kids.

Let's ban cars.

Ah but you forget, cars don`t get drunk.

realitykeeper · 07-10-2018 09:57AM

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

A properly functioning justice system is a deterrent to stupid and avoidable crime like getting behind the wheel after drinking. If you knew that you were 100% guaranteed, context be damned, to get a minimum sentence of several months in prison for even one drink driving offense, the vast majority of people would cop on and just not bother risking it.

But what if drink clouded your judgement? You said yourself you enjoy a drink.

odyssey06 · 07-10-2018 10:20AM

You need to be skeptical of statistics such as 38 percent of road deaths being alcohol related. Note they dont say caused by alcohol.
That means most accidents are caused by sober people. Sometimes drink is the cause of that 38pc but sometimes it will be caused by the same things causing most accidents... ie carelessness, bad driving, tiredness, road conditions, badly maintained roads, speeding etc

Gunmonkey · 07-10-2018 12:25PM

Johnny Dogs wrote: »

Shocking statistic altogether. No doubt.

I wonder how many involved folk having a few glasses of wine or beer in the house, travelling back home to the... um house?

And I wonder how many were caused by folks getting tanked up in the bar going home?

Bingo! Whats the breakdown of this 38% of road accidents based on where they were drinking? Because if it was the pub (and can assume over 80% will be) then MUP wont do squat to restrict that as those drinks are already over the MUP.

McMurphy · 07-10-2018 12:58PM

realitykeeper wrote: »

Ah but you forget, cars don`t get drunk.

They don't kill people either.

Let's ban people.

Hotblack Desiato · 07-10-2018 02:01PM

bnt wrote: »

10 litres of alcohol is 7.893 kilograms (since ethanol is lighter than water), so at €0.10 per gram minimum unit pricing, the average drinker would pay €78.93 per year minimum. I'm pretty sure I spent more than that in the last year, even though I estimate I hit about 1/3 of the average alcohol consumption. :eek:

No, they'd have to pay €789.30 and that's if they're drinking the cheapest stuff available. The knock-on effect on prices will be increases across the board.

The Rape of Lucretia · 07-10-2018 05:05PM

Johnny Dogs wrote: »

Shocking statistic altogether. No doubt.

I wonder how many involved folk having a few glasses of wine or beer in the house, travelling back home to the... um house?

And I wonder how many were caused by folks getting tanked up in the bar going home?

Hmmmm.

So the only place people consume alcohol not bought in pubs is in their OWN homes ?

And when they do, they dont go out again until there is no alcohol in their blood ?

kerryjack · 07-10-2018 05:40PM

Alcohol is not all bad its keeping a lot of marriages together like through a bottle of wine into her loosen or up a bit, works the other way as well you need a bit of help as you get older like who wants to have sex with a 50 plus year old. You work hard you pay all your bills you get to friday whats wrong with having a few drinks at home the vintners ass are telling us that people are falling around there own home mad drunk i don't belive that at all. Load of boolocks i think.

odyssey06 · 07-10-2018 06:03PM

kerryjack wrote: »

Alcohol is not all bad its keeping a lot of marriages together like through a bottle of wine into her loosen or up a bit, works the other way as well you need a bit of help as you get older like who wants to have sex with a 50 plus year old. You work hard you pay all your bills you get to friday whats wrong with having a few drinks at home the vintners ass are telling us that people are falling around there own home mad drunk i don't belive that at all. Load of boolocks i think.

I agree with you about the vintners, but not so sure about the first part... in the words of Shakespeare on the effects of drink...
It provokes the desire, but it takes away the performance. Therefore, much drink may be said to be an equivocator with lechery. It makes him, and it mars him; it sets him on, and it takes him off; it persuades him, and disheartens him; makes him stand to and not stand to; in conclusion, equivocates him in a sleep, and, giving him the lie, leaves him.

elperello · 07-10-2018 07:58PM

odyssey06 wrote: »

I agree with you about the vintners, but not so sure about the first part... in the words of Shakespeare on the effects of drink...
It provokes the desire, but it takes away the performance. Therefore, much drink may be said to be an equivocator with lechery. It makes him, and it mars him; it sets him on, and it takes him off; it persuades him, and disheartens him; makes him stand to and not stand to; in conclusion, equivocates him in a sleep, and, giving him the lie, leaves him.

Thank you for adding a bit of class to the thread

Since the Bard's time and before it people have been abusing drink in one way or another.

To think the problems associated with problem drinking can be addressed at the point of purchase is just ignoring history.

If we were really interested in making a difference we would be working out what makes people want to drink too much and cause problems.

The Rape of Lucretia · 07-10-2018 08:03PM

elperello wrote: »

If we were really interested in making a difference we would be working out what makes people want to drink too much and cause problems.

Given that anything is too much, much easier to just reduce the consumption of alcohol. Its a guaranteed cure for the problem.

elperello · 07-10-2018 10:48PM

Wheres Me Jumper? wrote: »

Here is the full study,
https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanpub/article/PIIS2468-2667(17)30240-2/fulltext?elsca1=tlpr

I got around to reading that study this evening. Thanks again.
I found it interesting.
They studied the effects on a group who started being given drink at home from an average of 12.9 years.
I'm not surprised that they found a bad result among the test group up to the age of 17.8 years.
I would consider that was far too young to be introducing children to drinking anyway.
As I said last night I think about 16 more suitable.
Also worth noting that they were using the definition of binge drinking as anything more than 4 standard drinks ie. two 50 ml cans.

Interested in hearing from anyone else who read it.

Richard Hillman · 07-10-2018 11:11PM

This price hike won't be the end of it. They'll notch it up every couple of years by a couple of cents at a time in the name of "health". Then we'll have recycling charge/deposits lumped onto them, with deposit refunds made ridiculously awkward.

In 10 years time, you could be paying close to €4 for a can of Heineken or whatever you're having. And there are no parties opposing it, and media seem to be singing to their tune too.

Hotblack Desiato · 07-10-2018 11:31PM

Any time the publicans feel the need for a dig out, MUP will go up.

kylith · 08-10-2018 12:07AM

It's also irritating that they're doing this under the guise of health and responsible drinking. Has anyone ever been refused drink in a pub for being too intoxicated? The drunkest I've ever been was on nights out, not in a house.

realitykeeper · 08-10-2018 07:32AM

Johnny Dogs wrote: »

They don't kill people either.

Let's ban people.

Let us take a moment to remind ourselves what this thread is about. It is about alcohol Johnny, alcohol! Not killing. Not cars. Not banning. Not people.

Focus!

odyssey06 · 08-10-2018 07:38AM

realitykeeper wrote: »

Let us take a moment to remind ourselves what this thread is about. It is about alcohol Johnny, alcohol! Not killing. Not cars. Not banning. Not people. Focus!

You're right of course, even if people bring up drunk driving and cars in the context of alcohol use, we should not lose sight of alcohol.
But has anyone asked the opinion of alcohol in all of this? Does whiskey want to be drunk? Why is it being excluded from making its voice heard in the debate?

realitykeeper · 08-10-2018 07:46AM

odyssey06 wrote: »

You're right of course, even if people bring up drunk driving and cars in the context of alcohol use, we should not lose sight of alcohol.
But has anyone asked the opinion of alcohol in all of this? Does whiskey want to be drunk? Why is it being excluded from making its voice heard in the debate?

Nobody is stopping whiskey from posting on boards if it wants to.

kerryjack · 08-10-2018 08:30AM

A drunk tank a very basic room in a garda station a place where you wouldn't want to go back to, would be a good idea to sleep it off instead of going to A&E and causing mayhem. If you spent a night lying in **** and puke you would cop your self on the next night you go out.

McMurphy · 08-10-2018 10:37AM

realitykeeper wrote: »

Let us take a moment to remind ourselves what this thread is about. It is about alcohol Johnny, alcohol! Not killing. Not cars. Not banning. Not people.

Focus!

Are you just a WUM or WTF you going on about, the reason we're talking about cars in the first place is because you brought it up, remember

realitykeeper wrote: »

Justice applies after the fact. I would rather my kid is not killed by a drunk driver in the first place, then there would be no need for a judge to punish the culprit.

The Rape of Lucretia · 08-10-2018 05:48PM

Johnny Dogs wrote: »

Are you just a WUM or WTF you going on about, the reason we're talking about cars in the first place is because you brought it up, remember

He's just keepin it real, man.

08-10-2018 06:05PM

kerryjack wrote: »

A drunk tank a very basic room in a garda station a place where you wouldn't want to go back to, would be a good idea to sleep it off instead of going to A&E and causing mayhem. If you spent a night lying in **** and puke you would cop your self on the next night you go out.

I spent a few years in the Czech Republic, one of the cheapest places in Europe to drink. Even relative to a Czech salary, its very cheap to drink. Coupled with 24 hour licensing for both on and off sales, and my drinking buddies being a cosmopolitan mixture of Scottish, English and Irish you would expect a recipe for disaster and yet I had zero negative experiences with any one. One main reason, IMO: They enforce the law and anyone being disorderly is invited to see a cell, and anyone drunk and disorderly gets to see a drunk tank. Ive not been in one, nor know anyone who has, but I'd imagine comfy and fluffy they are not. If the fear of spending a night in one kept a load of drunk irish and scots in check, I'd imagine a visit to one might make a few people change their ways.

Minimum alcohol pricing is nigh

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