Why are the FAI incompetent? Examples?

salmocab · 09-09-2018 09:00AM

Just on the Aviva Stadium thing, if I remember right the government paid half with FAI and IRFU paying the rest. I’m pretty sure the IRFU paid more than the FAI and also it was their land so I don’t think the FAI got a bad deal really. Not that I really want to be defending the FAI.

johnnyryan89 · 09-09-2018 10:29AM

duffman13 wrote: »

As far as I'm aware there is no performance standard or metric to measure performance of these development officers. Quiet a few of those still play LOI so I would wonder how dedicated they are to developing players and coaches in their catchment area.

There's no performance standard whatsoever because there's two in Limerick alone absolutely stealing a living as development officers and would be out on their otherwise. When you see the work being done by some development officers like James Scott in North Tipp or Denis Hynes in Clare, it makes you sick that some people can collect a handy wage for doing the bare minimum.

yabadabado · 09-09-2018 10:46AM

Richard Hillman wrote: »

Speaking of the FAI Tab.

There was a Dinner/Testimonial night for an old Ireland player called Dave Langan. A bunch of fans had heard he had fallen on hard times and arranged the usual Dinner, Bar and Speeches gig with Delaney and the FAI.

It seemed like the Delaney and the FAI came good on this one until a few months later Langan realized that the Free Bar was coming out of the money being raised for him.

Fans that attended were disgusted that they were not told about the source of the Free Bar. The FAI folk drank long into the night, pissing away Langan's retirement money.

I know a good few lads who went to that.It was said at the time to drink up as the FAI was looking after it .
Cheap bastards tried their best to shaft Langan

The Talking Bread · 09-09-2018 12:32PM

Richard Hillman wrote: »

Speaking of the FAI Tab.

There was a Dinner/Testimonial night for an old Ireland player called Dave Langan. A bunch of fans had heard he had fallen on hard times and arranged the usual Dinner, Bar and Speeches gig with Delaney and the FAI.

It seemed like the Delaney and the FAI came good on this one until a few months later Langan realized that the Free Bar was coming out of the money being raised for him.

Fans that attended were disgusted that they were not told about the source of the Free Bar. The FAI folk drank long into the night, pissing away Langan's retirement money.

Ah, will you stop, the auction alone made 27K, tables were 1500 a head. A free bar isn't cheap but to say it amounted to p*ssing away Langan's retirement fund is downright petty swipe at the FAI, who would not have been the main stakeholders in the event organisation in any case.

The FAI have helped Langan out on many an occasion but he just seems to be unfortunate and unstable in life. It is not as if the FAI kneecapped him. He has had numerous benefits nights organised for him.

That dinner was a huge success and there aren't many former internationals who get that.

FAI can't be held accountable to how Langan's private life has panned out but it was right for them to participate in organising the event but there is only so much you can do for someone who continually "falls on hard times"

This isn't me backing the FAI, it is merely me calling you out on a false bit of unwarranted propaganda against them. I will concede though I may be wrong in my knowledge of this is blurred however................as it wouldn't surprise me.

duffman13 · 09-09-2018 12:32PM

Mars Bar wrote: »

I know its still expensive but the quality of the courses now are excellent compared to what they were. I did the old youth cert and I've seen the new c licence. They are worlds apart. A huge improvement. The delivery of coaching courses from the fai is not a criticism I'd have.

No issues about the quality of them now, haven't done a course through the FAI since 2013 I think so I can't really comment. My issue was the course costs and how they are profit making ventures. If you're registered with a club for a few years the FAI should be subsidising and increasing the standard of coaching in this country.

duffman13 · 09-09-2018 12:41PM

johnnyryan89 wrote: »

There's no performance standard whatsoever because there's two in Limerick alone absolutely stealing a living as development officers and would be out on their otherwise. When you see the work being done by some development officers like James Scott in North Tipp or Denis Hynes in Clare, it makes you sick that some people can collect a handy wage for doing the bare minimum.

If there is a performance standard it hasn't been implemented whatsoever. I'd have the same opinion as you in relation to a massive discrepancy between performance. One of the development officers in Dublin never stops, 3 hours a day in schools during term time and does 2 coaching sessions in the evening with local clubs. Also involved with league representative panels.

An other guy working in Dublin doesn't have his phone switched on ever, try phone him and it's voicemail everytime. He's in a catchment area of some big Dublin clubs and has never so much as met the Secretary of the clubs. A peer assessment from local clubs would make a lot of sense from a performance management perspective and hold these guys to account.

yabadabado · 09-09-2018 03:09PM

The Talking Bread wrote: »

Ah, will you stop, the auction alone made 27K, tables were 1500 a head. A free bar isn't cheap but to say it amounted to p*ssing away Langan's retirement fund is downright petty swipe at the FAI, who would not have been the main stakeholders in the event organisation in any case.

The FAI have helped Langan out on many an occasion but he just seems to be unfortunate and unstable in life. It is not as if the FAI kneecapped him. He has had numerous benefits nights organised for him.

That dinner was a huge success and there aren't many former internationals who get that.

FAI can't be held accountable to how Langan's private life has panned out but it was right for them to participate in organising the event but there is only so much you can do for someone who continually "falls on hard times"

This isn't me backing the FAI, it is merely me calling you out on a false bit of unwarranted propaganda against them. I will concede though I may be wrong in my knowledge of this is blurred however................as it wouldn't surprise me.

Why tell everyone they were looking after the bar ?
There absolutely no need to do that other than they wanted to look good.

The FAI had little input on the organisation of that benefit night,majority of the leg work was done by fans.They got on board when it suited them.

johnnyryan89 · 09-09-2018 03:28PM

duffman13 wrote: »

If there is a performance standard it hasn't been implemented whatsoever. I'd have the same opinion as you in relation to a massive discrepancy between performance. One of the development officers in Dublin never stops, 3 hours a day in schools during term time and does 2 coaching sessions in the evening with local clubs. Also involved with league representative panels.

An other guy working in Dublin doesn't have his phone switched on ever, try phone him and it's voicemail everytime. He's in a catchment area of some big Dublin clubs and has never so much as met the Secretary of the clubs. A peer assessment from local clubs would make a lot of sense from a performance management perspective and hold these guys to account.

Who would even be over these development officers, surely they've got bosses they answer to and I know here in Limerick the FAI pay half their salary while the regeneration pick up the other half, not sure if it's the same in other places and makes it messy on who some answer too if two different organisations are paying your wage. Now that might have changed because I remember one the lads who'd be in well with one the local CDOs saying something before that the regeneration won't be paying half the wages in time.

It's probably never gonna happen but with the introduction of the UEFA elite youth a licence and the LOI underage (which is good in theory) the FAI need to overhaul the way things are done at youth level or risk being left behind at international level.

Dots1982 · 09-09-2018 03:42PM

Seems it’s not black and white with the FAI. For every example saying where they made a mess of something or highlighted their self interest there’s someone willing to counter the point. That’s what I’m trying to find out to be honest.

read a thing in the guardian a while ago about how Germany converted their talent generation system to start creating players again. It seemed relatively simple to be honest; get coaches qualified and get them to go into all areas of the country. Toni kroos was cited as an example of a player from a rural part of Germany that wouldn’t have normally had much exposure to coaching. Really seemed fairly straightforward; not sure how rafa honigstein got a book out of it (Das Reboot)

Berserker · 09-09-2018 05:00PM

malinheader wrote: »

Read an article on his salary.cant mind off the top of my head but was shocked and disgusted at the time.and will we ever know the truth about what he accepted after the Thierry Henry injustice. The man's another me me me minister.

He/They didn't accept it. They milked it for everything it was worth, to the point of asking to be an extra team in tournament. Take a look at how NI managed losing out on qualification last time round due to a dodgy referees call. That's how you handle something like that. It's sickening but you have to handle it in a professional manner.

NIMAN wrote: »

I work with some people who are involved in underage coaching. In both jurisdictions on the island.

A couple of guys have had dealings with both associations, and cannot say enough good things about the IFA and it's structures. However, most are damning about the FAI.

They fully understand why the north get so pissed off when they develop youngsters so well, only for them to walk away to Ireland.

The IFA is miles ahead of the FAI when it comes to managing talent. They've a smaller pool of potential players, yet they managed to develop a system which is producing young talent and they have a better full international team than the ROI, as of now, in my opinion. Anyone who is involved in football at a decent level on this island knows that the FAI are p1ss poor and the IFA are ever improving.

yabadabado · 09-09-2018 05:48PM

Dots1982 wrote: »

Seems it’s not black and white with the FAI. For every example saying where they made a mess of something or highlighted their self interest there’s someone willing to counter the point. That’s what I’m trying to find out to be honest.

read a thing in the guardian a while ago about how Germany converted their talent generation system to start creating players again. It seemed relatively simple to be honest; get coaches qualified and get them to go into all areas of the country. Toni kroos was cited as an example of a player from a rural part of Germany that wouldn’t have normally had much exposure to coaching. Really seemed fairly straightforward; not sure how rafa honigstein got a book out of it (Das Reboot)

Not sure where you are getting the posts countering the negative posts on the FAI.They are an absolute mess of an organisation, it would be a very small minority who would think differently imo.

Das Reboot is excellent, I'd recommend it to any football fan.

Dots1982 · 09-09-2018 06:03PM

yabadabado wrote: »

Dots1982 wrote: »

Seems it’s not black and white with the FAI. For every example saying where they made a mess of something or highlighted their self interest there’s someone willing to counter the point. That’s what I’m trying to find out to be honest.

read a thing in the guardian a while ago about how Germany converted their talent generation system to start creating players again. It seemed relatively simple to be honest; get coaches qualified and get them to go into all areas of the country. Toni kroos was cited as an example of a player from a rural part of Germany that wouldn’t have normally had much exposure to coaching. Really seemed fairly straightforward; not sure how rafa honigstein got a book out of it (Das Reboot)

Not sure where you are getting the posts countering the negative posts on the FAI.They are an absolute mess of an organisation, it would be a very small minority who would think differently imo.

Das Reboot is excellent, I'd recommend it to any football fan.

Sorry but read the thread, the Aviva fiasco and the Dave Langan free bar issue were both argued on both sides.

I’m not saying either side is right but there are grey areas here.

It maybe a very small minority who think the FAI aren’t a mess but within that majority there may not be that many who can form cognitive arguments why they are a sham organization. That is what I’m trying to see posted and so far many have posted intelligent arguments why they are a sham.

yabadabado · 09-09-2018 06:11PM

Aviva was a total disaster ,the Vantage Club idea was pitiful and put FAI in way more debt than was needed.That was gross mismanagement and heads should have rolled.

Dave Langan had a good few quid held from the benefit night simply because the FAI wanted to look good infront of supporters. It's doesn't matter that he made a lot besides, there was no need to pretend they were paying for the free bar .People I know who attended were disgusted when they found out afterwards, no one cared about the free bar and would gladly have paid for their drinks ,FAI heads going around to tables telling to drink up as they were getting the tab.

Dots1982 · 09-09-2018 06:14PM

yabadabado wrote: »

Aviva was a total disaster ,the Vantage Club idea was pitiful and put FAI in way more debt than was needed.

Dave Langan had a good few quid held from the benefit night simply because the FAI wanted to look good infront of supporters. It's doesn't matter that he made a lot besides, there was no need to pretend they were paying for the free bar .People I know who attended were disgusted when they found out afterwards, no one cared about the free bar and would gladly have paid for their drinks ,FAI heads going around to tables telling to drink up as they were getting the tab.

Vantage club wasn’t what the debate was over. It was about FAI paying 70 million for a stadium they have no ownership rights to. This was argued as a good deal and a bad deal.

yabadabado · 09-09-2018 06:33PM

Dots1982 wrote: »

Vantage club wasn’t what the debate was over. It was about FAI paying 70 million for a stadium they have no ownership rights to. This was argued as a good deal and a bad deal.

My mistake ,thought it was Vantage club fiasco.

Not sure why they didnt keep a similar deal that they had previously with IRFU.Could have spent that 70m on centre of excellence(s),coaching and grassroots.

A few proper centres dotted around the country and have nowhere near 70m spent.

salmocab · 09-09-2018 06:33PM

Dots1982 wrote: »

Vantage club wasn’t what the debate was over. It was about FAI paying 70 million for a stadium they have no ownership rights to. This was argued as a good deal and a bad deal.

It was me that said it wasn’t a bad deal, I don’t know the exact details bit from memory they brought about 20% of the cash irfu about 30% with the government paying half. It was already the irfu’s land so not unreasonable that after the 50 odd year agreement it would revert to them. That said at that stage the stadium will be in need of rebuilding with a similar agreement probably starting. I’m only doing figures from memory so might be a bit off but I think the point stands regardless. Just for the record I think the FAI and Irish football in general is a mess.

duffman13 · 09-09-2018 07:36PM

Dots1982 wrote: »

Sorry but read the thread, the Aviva fiasco and the Dave Langan free bar issue were both argued on both sides.

I’m not saying either side is right but there are grey areas here.

It maybe a very small minority who think the FAI aren’t a mess but within that majority there may not be that many who can form cognitive arguments why they are a sham organization. That is what I’m trying to see posted and so far many have posted intelligent arguments why they are a sham.

I dont know anything about Langan one tbh but the Aviva situation has been argued by a few, me included. The FAI had little option but to enter into the agreement with the IRFU. It was the right option for both sides however the gross mismanagement if the vantage club fiasco is linked to the stadium decision aswell. The redevelopment was needed and the FAI could have taken €75 million from an outside company to sell vantage club on behalf of the FAI.

This was their method of paying off the debt associated. They choose the greedy option and thus set football back 10-15 years in this country as a result. They would have still had substantial game day income from the remaining tickets. The decision to associate with the Aviva project was the only one available to the FAI. The method of payment was what ****ed it up. Any other CEO of an organisation would have been bumped out after that debacle.

Dots1982 · 09-09-2018 08:41PM

duffman13 wrote: »

Dots1982 wrote: »

Sorry but read the thread, the Aviva fiasco and the Dave Langan free bar issue were both argued on both sides.

I’m not saying either side is right but there are grey areas here.

It maybe a very small minority who think the FAI aren’t a mess but within that majority there may not be that many who can form cognitive arguments why they are a sham organization. That is what I’m trying to see posted and so far many have posted intelligent arguments why they are a sham.

I dont know anything about Langan one tbh but the Aviva situation has been argued by a few, me included. The FAI had little option but to enter into the agreement with the IRFU. It was the right option for both sides however the gross mismanagement if the vantage club fiasco is linked to the stadium decision aswell. The redevelopment was needed and the FAI could have taken €75 million from an outside company to sell vantage club on behalf of the FAI.

This was their method of paying off the debt associated. They choose the greedy option and thus set football back 10-15 years in this country as a result. They would have still had substantial game day income from the remaining tickets. The decision to associate with the Aviva project was the only one available to the FAI. The method of payment was what ****ed it up. Any other CEO of an organisation would have been bumped out after that debacle.

I don’t think anyone is arguing that Delaney and the fai done a good job with the vantage club. They definitely made a balls of that.

The Talking Bread · 09-09-2018 08:57PM

yabadabado wrote: »

Aviva was a total disaster ,the Vantage Club idea was pitiful and put FAI in way more debt than was needed.That was gross mismanagement and heads should have rolled.

Dave Langan had a good few quid held from the benefit night simply because the FAI wanted to look good infront of supporters. It's doesn't matter that he made a lot besides, there was no need to pretend they were paying for the free bar .People I know who attended were disgusted when they found out afterwards, no one cared about the free bar and would gladly have paid for their drinks ,

FAI heads going around to tables telling to drink up as they were getting the tab.

So basically they couldn't win............... if they didn't give him (another) fund raiser they are criticised but if they do they are criticised for doing it only to look good.
The FAI can't be held accountable for Dave Langan's financial and personal life problems.
That last darkened out part re the tab is downright lies.

dundalkfc10 · 09-09-2018 08:58PM

Saying they laid down the foundations for Dundalk getting to Europa League Group Stages.

duffman13 · 09-09-2018 09:28PM

Dots1982 wrote: »

I don’t think anyone is arguing that Delaney and the fai done a good job with the vantage club. They definitely made a balls of that.

I'm not saying that, I'm saying the decision for the stadium was intrinsically linked to the whole concept of vantage club. The business plan for the FAI around the Lansdowne redevelopment talked about how it would finance the stadium through a major ticket project. Try find that business plan anywhere now, you won't, its gone! That offer was on the table to bulk sell the tickets for a number of years

They rejected it and then said it never existed! There is nothing going to change in the foreseeable future unfortunately though

johnnyryan89 · 09-09-2018 09:51PM

duffman13 wrote: »

I'm not saying that, I'm saying the decision for the stadium was intrinsically linked to the whole concept of vantage club. The business plan for the FAI around the Lansdowne redevelopment talked about how it would finance the stadium through a major ticket project. Try find that business plan anywhere now, you won't, its gone! That offer was on the table to bulk sell the tickets for a number of years

They rejected it and then said it never existed! There is nothing going to change in the foreseeable future unfortunately though

Only time there will ever be change is in the event of a United Ireland and that's when things will get real messy.

yabadabado · 09-09-2018 11:27PM

The Talking Bread wrote: »

So basically they couldn't win............... if they didn't give him (another) fund raiser they are criticised but if they do they are criticised for doing it only to look good.
The FAI can't be held accountable for Dave Langan's financial and personal life problems.
That last darkened out part re the tab is downright lies.

Of course they could win ,help with the benefit and don't have a free bar or try hold over cash to fund it.They helped with the fundraiser but it wasn't their initial idea either.
Iirc correctly it also took they a very long time to actually give him the money for some reason.
The last part most certainly is not lies.I know several people who were at the event and have no reason to doubt their story.

Pawwed Rig · 10-09-2018 02:31AM

To be fair the economy collapsed just when they needed to sell the Vantage tickets. Season ticket demand went off a cliff at the same time.

Zebra3 · 10-09-2018 07:15AM

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

To be fair the economy collapsed just when they needes to sell the Vantage tickets. Season ticket demand went off a cliff at the same time.

IRFU had gotten out early and sold theirs.

Delaney asleep while milking the FAI for 400 large a year.

Fr Tod Umptious · 10-09-2018 07:39AM

Zebra3 wrote: »

IRFU had gotten out early and sold theirs.

Delaney asleep while milking the FAI for 400 large a year.

It's been argued a million times here.

IRFU have a different demographic than the FAI, a far higher income, corporate demographic.

And they had a national team that were highly ranked.

The glory days of the Charlton era were well in the rearview mirror at that stage for soccer.

The two situations are not as comparable as some would like.

yabadabado · 10-09-2018 08:30AM

All the more reason they should have taken the money from ISG for the ticketing/corporate plans.

Fr Tod Umptious · 10-09-2018 09:27AM

yabadabado wrote: »

All the more reason they should have taken the money from ISG for the ticketing/corporate plans.

I only heard about the ISG thing from this thread, I was only ever aware of the original Vantage club sales back around 2008.

They took a lot of flack here but I believe the FAI were very unlucky having to try and sell premium level seats during a recession both on and off the field.

Berserker · 10-09-2018 09:30AM

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

I only heard about the ISG thing from this thread, I was only ever aware of the original Vantage club sales back around 2008.

They took a lot of flack here but I believe the FAI were very unlucky having to try and sell premium level seats during a recession both on and off the field.

The product on the field was poor at that time, if I remember correctly. A lot of the fairweather fans would have had no interesting in buying long term tickets. You need to shift tickets like that when the going is good.

yabadabado · 10-09-2018 09:41AM

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

I only heard about the ISG thing from this thread, I was only ever aware of the original Vantage club sales back around 2008.

They took a lot of flack here but I believe the FAI were very unlucky having to try and sell premium level seats during a recession both on and off the field.

They sent me the brochure for that as I was a block booker.I was shocked at some of the pricing, Iirc it wasn't just premium they were trying to sell but also the normal seats at half way line etc.
Anyone able to confirm that?

Why are the FAI incompetent? Examples?

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