Is anyone else starting to become a bit worried? mod note in first post

smacl wrote: »

With ETH going so low, I'd probably be more tempted to take a punt on it, or one of the other more promising alts, than BTC. If BTC is still PoW when and if other coins in active use transition to PoS it could very well end up as a dead duck. For me at this point it is a wait and see game.

Well yes IMO it still is a huge gamble no matter what. Most of the current coins will end up as dead ducks (could even be all of them although I think a few will survive).

For the current use (speculation / store of value) i am not sure technology is that relevant and what matter seems to be just market sentiment and being established as a brand (which bitcoin is currently consolidating).

Hard to tell how the landscape will evolve, but I’d still say while it could indeed die bitcoin is the safer bet simply because it is established as the crypto everyone knows.

Pintman Paddy Losty wrote: »

I see JohnnyFlash has been banned. I hope the little squealers here are happy. Unable to argue with him you ratted and silenced him. Embarrassing stuff.

"squealers"
:rolleyes:

He was requested by a mod to converse/debate/argue properly.
He refused to, he kept regurgitating the same points while ignoring every point against them. Then he'd spew them again with a word or two changed whilst still ignoring what others have said. Then he'd repeat that same point he'd made earlier and abstain from making any meaningful response to another's viewpoint. Then he would reiterate the argument he'd made previously and yet again refrain when presented with the opportunity to present a counterpoint. Get the point?

The prime culprits with an inability to argue are yourself and himself. Others have managed to present opposing viewpoints without coming across as extremely wilfully ignorant. They might not understand something, have it explained and then they go "Well, I dunno" or "Oh, I see" or "I don't see how X relates to Y".
You two just bleat the same "Nothing here, no, scam, energy, Tether, shítcoin, waste" - you're right to be verrrrrrrrry sceptical about a lot of the stuff within crypto but most of your talking points are weak and being worked on.
You run a construction supply business. Why aren't all of those buildings just magicked into reality? Why do I have to wait for some guy to go to your company, buy the materials he needs and then laboriously build the property?
I mean, that property should just be built already. Somehow. With no effort. Or time spent. Who cares about the laws of physics and time?

Pintman Paddy Losty wrote: »

I see JohnnyFlash has been banned. I hope the little squealers here are happy. Unable to argue with him you ratted and silenced him. Embarrassing stuff.

You're right. His posts were constantly embarrassing. It's a public forum - he ratted and silenced himself.

Autochange wrote: »

The mods are worse to do it. They were the ones that carried out the ban.

If this thread turns into an echo chamber then im out.

I welcome the contrarian view - but not at the expense of after hours nonsense. If you believe for a second that the 'contributions' from those two were (and still is in one case) anything other than 'after hours' rubbish, then I really can't see how you advance any argument/debate/discussion.

Mod note: guys JF was contacted by me on thread and via pm to ask him to answer a direct response to his own request before he posted here again. JF responded to say that was ok, he would post elsewhere.

He posted here without responding to the mod request. So, if he cannot resist posting we had to provide help.

Blame posters for reporting his posts. Blame the mods (me in particular) for banning but ultimately it was his own choice and he made it in full knowledge of the facts regarding his status here.

Discuss , disagree, argue, spitball. Don't troll or soapbox.

grindle wrote: »

Excellent, so now that's out of the way - what do people think of the prospects of ETH hitting $100 or below?

There would likely be a lot of resistance popping up there as it's very "affordable" to people in western countries at least.

I'm think $100 would be the very end of the scale of how far it will go,there's a reason ETH is number two,in reality it should be 1 but BTC is the poster child and will be there for a while but ETH is the one and only crypto I believe will out live all the others

I apologise in advance for the lengthy horseshít.
I wish I was knowledgeable about this stuff. End goal is to have 1% of Vitalik's knowledge and the current price means little beyond thinking "Ooh, could've sextupled my stack". Not a big deal in the long run, life is grand, it wasn't worth the gamble at the time or else I would have done it.
Nobody has legitimate knowledge when it comes to pricing these things, it's unquantifiable. If Vitalik had legit knowledge on these things he would have sold most of his stack at $1300 instead of $400, Vlad wouldn't have sold at $10-$20, etc etc. All that's known is that businesses do want to incorporate the tech within the not-too-soon yet not-too-distant future. The closest analogue to scarce crypto assets in the real world recently is oil, which is and has been manipulated more, on a much wider scale and much more brazenly than the crypto markets. Which is saying something. But it's fine because that's oil. Let's start a war just because. Sounds great. :pac:

On one hand ETH's a work in progress that's a couple of years away from being production ready on any large scale (although multiple plasma implementations should be arriving this year), on the other I consider $10b cap for ETH to be an insult considering the 50k+ devs working within it's ecosystem, the pace of development across the space, the ease of Kickstarter/VC-like funding it enables, the ease with which dividend-earning shares can be transferred across to ETH once the SEC settles their framework into place. It's future utility seems too valuable (maybe my folly) and I don't see anybody matching it in any sphere beyond crippling the amount of nodes as a "this might do for now" measure to increase tx throughput and speed while throwing caution to the wind about blockchain bloat, who the nodes are or what they might do.
It could always have a temporary flash crash again, the demolishing of support levels at low volumes with the Bart memelines doesn't look like manic sell pressure from ICOs or miners to me, it looks like plain bullying of the price to create a massive stop-loss slide - I would't expect another $0.10 flash crash this might be a stupid presumption on my part but I'm imagining many learned a lesson from last summer's crash plus there's a much larger pool of buyers with Hail Mary orders waiting. Something that'll look and feel similar could happen again if any entrants after last summer haven't set their stop losses. After that a crazy short squeeze. The books will be near empty across most exchanges and a huge FOMO run starts again. But at what price? I wish I knew. I've funds set aside and price alerts at the ready all the way down. Will sell my ass for $10 ETH. 5ETH, sucky sucky, 10ETH fúcky fúcky*.

From my point of view Ethereum would have to undergo some serious calamity to become a minor player overall - what could precipitate such a fall from grace and breed a willingness to dump the enormous amount of work that's been put into the protocol and everything built on top of it? Programmers tend to have a mercenary attitude and they don't like wasting their time if it's in demand. Nothing that's happened after the DAO has had enough weight to damage ETH fundamentally, so it's going to have to be worse than the DAO.
Maybe if the Ethereum core team suffer a plane crash in the Andes and eat themselves or something.

Which project/s do you think could be a main player against ETH?
EOS? Not on my radar, it's bad design encourages manipulation like the RAM frenzy, collusion of nodes, malicious arbitrators whose actions require the head of the project ("I'm not the head of the project though" :rolleyes:) to rewrite the project's "constitution" despite repeatedly claiming BlockSense was a separate company/project and all that the EOS token gives you is use of EOS and shítcoin forks of itself. Larimer acts like someone who doesn't like testing all aspects of an update (or his own logic) before pushing a release and the only reason he's hiding behind his Blockstream-esque shell company is to circumvent securities laws. Ethereum would probably be like EOS if Gavin Wood was Vitalik.

ETC is a nothing, they're the worst aspect of crypto idealism - that black-and-white "code is law forever" crowd who would waive theft away as if code and being a decent person can't coexist. What an ideal. Imagine something like the Equifax hack happening on a blockchain and nobody being held to account...heheheheheeee. Maybe crypto art will imitate life. I wouldn't want a project like ID2020 being set up on ETC that's for sure.

I'd be more worried about Cardano due to the quality of devs and research but so many people got the FOMO bug at the height of everything that it's current value vs where they are in development is massively overbought. Also suffers from Hoskinson's crippling idealism where theft may be waived.

NEO is odd, anybody using it in all it's indivisable glory should be going "Oh, wait - it's indivisable for absolutely no fúcking reason beyond forcing people to HODL on an exchange thus reducing supply". Let's say NEO takes off and hits $120b cap - people can't take their NEO off the exchange to use this $200 shítcoin unless they have a whole round number? So idiotic it's priceless and a barrier to entry or exit.
"Just wait to build up gas" is a comment I've seen a few times. Yeah, that works fine for most when it's $20, more painful if it's $200+.
It's sidechain thing Ontology had one of the worst whitepapers I've ever read, buzzword stew for people who don't read technical papers.

Tron is Tron. Was and maybe still is a shítcoin, can now afford not to be in a culture where working people to the bone is taken for granted. Maybe it does well but the hype that got them to their current spot was an illness born out of greed and misinformat...wait, Justin has a scheduled announcement! No, wait, the announcement will be in a week, this was just an announcement of an announcement. *waits week* Excellent, the announcement is that something very special is coming soon and we all can't wait! So excited!!! ZOMG.

I don't see any mass movement of devs to these other platforms, ETH is still dominating, the core team is easily the strongest as a whole that I've seen across crypto, the most transparent and interactive. The issuance rate was a big problem which has been somewhat curbed but IMO should still have been more conservative. Maybe they'll reduce further in preparation for PoS which will also have it's break-in period where tons will want "free" ETH from staking and it'll take a bit of time before that really evens out. The most patient will win that battle but depending on their timing if they're a trader they could be losing out on many opportunities to sell. Turns out that free ETH isn't free when there's an opportunity cost.

I still haven't heard, read or seen any convincing arguments against Ethereum (or for any other chain that's stood up to intense scrutiny) or why it wouldn't dominate bar one - we're still so early that new devs entering the ecosystem and a fresh round of FOMO could tip something ahead of it. Tjhere could be a line of geniouses waiting of present an actual Ethereum killer (lol, no, not you Justin/Dan/Whoever that verge guy is!).
ETH's dependent on relative ease of use, having the widest range of the most useful tools/libraries available and developer adoption. It currently has that lead and in my head it's got that tentpole feel - BTC has value because of the first-mover advantage which has become Apple brand - it feels premium but it's backwards-facing - ETH has a first mover advantage which was sponging working devs into it's ecosystem and long term it doesn't need the brand. Bitcoin cares or used to care about retail adoption, Ethereum is about worldwide enterprise use and is much further ahead on it's aims than Bitcoin has ever been. It's done in a few years what Bitcoin chose not to do - give a good reason to utilise blockchain that isn't a pie-in-the-sky hedge against fiat. Plus Bitcoin doesn't even want to do that any more, the devs and Blockstream employees have stated this many times. I don't know what it's purpose is supposed to be outside of speculation any more. It's the largest pool of crypto liquidity I suppose. Hardly an honour in an illiquid market.

*sarcasm, please don't try to solicit my non-existent services if it hits these prices

Autochange wrote: »

Have you seen what is happening with legalized marijuana stocks ? It's like last year's crypto market. All I f the money is flooding in chasing big gains. Since Goldman Sachs kicked the can on a crypto exchange and the latest etf was denied we have stagnated.

At the minute all of the money is going into marijuana IPO's

linky?

Can the title of the thread be changed, apparently, the only people posting in here seem oblivious to bad news, and when it does drop, they make it sound like an opportunity, -in reality, it's an opportunity for people that didn't lose money , to lose money, or those that lost a little, to lose a lot.

To put it in perspective, I invested 8k in a blue chip stock last week, the investment is down 8%, I am not concerned, but I'm also not looking on it as a good thing. Will my stock lose 50%? hell no, not unless the whole market collapses, and even then, like all good stocks, it will come back, will crypto come back? highly unlikely.

ballyharpat wrote: »

Can the title of the thread be changed, apparently, the only people posting in here seem oblivious to bad news, and when it does drop, they make it sound like an opportunity, -in reality, it's an opportunity for people that didn't lose money , to lose money, or those that lost a little, to lose a lot.

To put it in perspective, I invested 8k last week, the investment is down 8%, I am not concerned, but I'm also not looking on it as a good thing. Will my stock lose 50%? hell no, not unless the whole market collapses, and even then, like all good stocks, it will come back, will crypto come back? highly unlikely.

Are you referring to you investing in cryptos or stock?

If its the latter youre in the wrong thread, if the former then provide some explanation why you think cryptos wont come back? ( like they have actually gone somewhere in the first place)

ballyharpat wrote: »

What i am referring to is that anyone that argues against crypto is locked out or banned, JF was making valid points, has been making them since crypto was 14k, He may not have addressed every point, but I have yet to hear anyone make a valid point for why crypto will ever be worth more, and they are still here, this thread should actually have a warning, that crypto is not considered 'investing' or 'trading'.

this is like going to a socialist party meeting and asking questions and making valid statements, but being shut down by everyone there, because they are all socialists, and them saying, you are wrong, because everyone here disagrees with you......

JohnnyFlash got banned because he was ignoring valid points put to him and failed to address them, a mod warned him as he was soapboxing and said he wasnt allowed post until he addressed the points put to him, he failed to do that,continued to post and was subsequently banned, not because of his views but because of his conduct.

Point he made were valid and debate is actively encouraged, what isnt is ignoring arguments to your points and carrying on like you can do and say what you want in a maneer that tries to wind people up.

There have been many examples put forward here by smacl,grindl,makeorbrake among others for cryptos and their current real world usage and their prospects for the future.

The vast majority of people here accept not all cryptos will survive but nobody is psychic (except PPL but to his credit he can take criticism and is openly debating points put to him which is why he is needed in a thread like this so it doesnt become an echo chamber)

Also cypto can be considered investment to people if they want and is actively traded and warnings are clearly stated on all major exchanges and articles regarding cryptos however this is a discussion forum, not an advice or news article, its not our job to warn people of the dangers

ballyharpat wrote: »

What i am referring to is that anyone that argues against crypto is locked out or banned,

I'm open to correction but to my knowledge, one individual has been banned here. See the mod's post - explaining why he was banned. It's as clear as night and day.

ballyharpat wrote: »

JF was making valid points, has been making them since crypto was 14k,

He made one or two valid points in between the 'after hours' nonsense talk and insulting people here - calling them idiots. If anyone wants to hear about someones drinking habits, prostitute buying habits or other unrelated nonsense, they can surf on over to the 'After Hours' forum where that rubbish belongs.

ballyharpat wrote: »

He may not have addressed every point

Every point? This is a discussion forum. Time and time again, he'd drop in this garbage and when people discussed it with him - he was gone...only to come back with the same garbage a few days later.

ballyharpat wrote: »

I have yet to hear anyone make a valid point for why crypto will ever be worth more

Plenty of points have been made as to why crypto / blockchain / DLT has value. We won't know what you deem to be valid or invalid unless you post in relation to the points made. It's not the mind reading forum.

ballyharpat wrote: »

and they are still here,

Who's still here?

ballyharpat wrote: »

this thread should actually have a warning, that crypto is not considered 'investing' or 'trading'.

Is Forex investing? And yet crypto involves new technology that has yet to mature. I don't think anyone has an issue here if you call it speculation.
Is day or swing trading investing? Is the futures market investing?
In your pen-ultimate post, you compared it with stocks. Sure, crypto is wildly more volatile than stocks. I have NOT seen anyone who has suggested otherwise?
In your stock portfolio, do you invest in blue chips across the board or do you take on an element of high risk investments also?

https://www.forbes.com/sites/michaeldelcastillo/2018/09/07/winklevoss-brothers-launch-ethereum-token-backed-by-us-dollars/#43cc86477e1f

What will this mean for Tether? haha