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freesat after brexit

  • 27-08-2018 09:07AM
    #1
    jacob2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 275 ✭✭


    will we still get freesat/ free to air channels from the uk after brexit


Comments

  • #2
    Mint Sauce
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,293 ✭✭✭✭Mint Sauce


    I would imagine so. The satalite signal does not regocnise boarders, hence we are are able to receive the service. As far as know, the satalites cant focus the signal on GB, and NI, without missing out ROI.

    The only difference might be, is the number of channals received on Freesat due to the costs they pay, the appear on the format and EPG.


  • #3
    Wheety
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,498 ✭✭✭Wheety


    Yeah. Technically we shouldn't be getting it now as we don't pay a licence fee in the UK. They can't stop the signal. The signal is broadcast whether you have a dish and a receiver or not.


  • #4
    bappelbe
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 283 ✭✭bappelbe


    A lot of people in ROI pay sky for their satellite service which includes the freesat channels, does any of that payment go to the BBC etc?


  • #5
    Wheety
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,498 ✭✭✭Wheety


    bappelbe wrote: »
    A lot of people in ROI pay sky for their satellite service which includes the freesat channels, does any of that payment go to the BBC etc?

    I imagine Sky have to pay something if they advertise the free channels as part of their package, but you continue receiving the fta channels if you cancel your Sky account.


  • #6
    mike2084
    Registered Users, Subscribers, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 1,402 ✭✭✭mike2084


    bappelbe wrote: »
    A lot of people in ROI pay sky for their satellite service which includes the freesat channels, does any of that payment go to the BBC etc?

    As far as I know Sky pays BBC Worldwide - the commercial arm of the BBC - for the channels, though I am open to correction on that.


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  • #7
    STB.
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,380 ✭✭✭STB.


    Wheety wrote: »
    Yeah. Technically we shouldn't be getting it now as we don't pay a licence fee in the UK. They can't stop the signal. The signal is broadcast whether you have a dish and a receiver or not.

    Eh technically they shouldn't be infringing into another jurisdictions broadcasting landscape. Its not just overspill. Even with the narrow beam that Freesat use on 28.2E, it covers the whole country.

    You do realise that each of those stations have programme rights that only extend to the UK, which we are not part of.

    Its been the elephant in the room for years.

    Sky pay for BBCs carriage on satellite. The costs are neutral, but they should be paying for its content given Sky bundle it into packages.


  • #8
    icdg
    Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 12,721 Mod ✭✭✭✭icdg


    The satellite has not yet been invented, that can cover the whole on the United Kingdom from Land’s End to John O’Groats, and all of Northern Ireland, without also serving all of Ireland. That’s most fortunate for us, and even more fortunate that the major U.K. channels decided quite a number of years ago that they had enough of paying Sky for use of their conditional access system.

    And as long as both of the above remain the case, and satellite lasts as a technology for the delivery of television, then Irish customers will be able to view free to air channels.

    U.K. channels on the Irish EPG are there because they form part of a Sky package, or because they are paying Sky for an EPG entry - either way they are not there by accident and are there deliberately and if they do not have Irish rights - most do - that is an issue for the rights owners to enforce with them. The BBC and Channel 4 have arrangements whereby they form part of the Sky package in Ireland - even though the channels are free to air - whereas in the U.K. they no longer do so.


  • #9
    STB.
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,380 ✭✭✭STB.


    It has been most fortunate for viewers ICDG.

    It has not been as fortunate for the Irish television stations pitching and paying for rights for Ireland that are then competing with foreign stations that are showing the same content sometimes with better production or no adverts.

    The reason that there are seperate rights in the first instance for Ireland shows that the UK rights do not cover widespread "overspill".

    When freesat moved to the new tighter KU beam pattern this was to appease rights holders, not broadcasters in this jurisdiction.

    Regardless of all that, it is not just Freesat that encroach the Irish territory, but also Sky who operate their own TPs of these FTA channels unencrypted and tie it all together with an openepg TP.

    Meanwhile similar encroachment by RTE was not entertained. Their channels are encrypted on the same satellite system. Also RTE invested in a very tight KA beam on a non traditional satellite to appease rights holders and other broadcasters outside our jurisdiction.

    Despite this beam being on an obscure satellite, requiring a non standard KA LNB all of which would not be used by the normal Sky & freesat users, broadcasters have made complaints ensuring that there are blank outs of KA coverage to all users. Effectively they have rendered it useless.

    A level playing pitch ? You must be joking.


  • #10
    icdg
    Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 12,721 Mod ✭✭✭✭icdg


    If rights are infringed, that is a matter for rights holders to pursue with the infringing parties. Sky are not infringing on rights, or at least not in their role as a broadcaster rather than a platform operator - their own channels buy Irish rights all the content they broadcast.

    In terms creating a “level playing field”, what do you suggest? Ban the sale and possession of satellite dishes? Probably illegal under the EU Treaties. Ban foreign channels from Irish cable TV, or impose some sort of Canadian style restrictions on what can be carried? Again, the EU audiovisual directive allows broadcasts from one member state into another. Yes, the OP mentioned Brexit and this may not cover the U.K. in the future. And the Internet exists now anyway.


  • #11
    FRIENDO
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,421 ✭✭✭FRIENDO


    Yet somebody has cherry picked on rights when it comes to the generally small audience on RTE Saorsat having Champions League blocked on RTE2

    Yet absolutely everything else on Saorsat is OK!!


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  • #12
    STB.
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,380 ✭✭✭STB.


    icdg wrote: »
    If rights are infringed, that is a matter for rights holders to pursue with the infringing parties. Sky are not infringing on rights, or at least not in their role as a broadcaster rather than a platform operator - their own channels buy Irish rights all the content they broadcast.

    In terms creating a “level playing field”, what do you suggest? Ban the sale and possession of satellite dishes? Probably illegal under the EU Treaties. Ban foreign channels from Irish cable TV, or impose some sort of Canadian style restrictions on what can be carried? Again, the EU audiovisual directive allows broadcasts from one member state into another. Yes, the OP mentioned Brexit and this may not cover the U.K. in the future. And the Internet exists now anyway.

    In the instance I quoted we had a ludicrous situation whereby the rights holders where complaining to the rights owners not just about the Saorview minimux in NI BUT about the Saorsat broadcasting of champions league games on an obscure KASAT satellite on 9E which requires specialist receiving equipment. This resulted in the widespread blocking of the Saorsat to the whole country.

    Have we ever seen requests by RTE about widespread reception of programmes for which they hold exclusive rights in Ireland ? No is the answer.

    Sky (and Freesat) are knowingly rebroadcasting the UK stations outside of their jurisdiction, unencrypted.

    What do I suggest ? Well the Irish position is to do nothing as its free content in the absence of commercial muxes. This is the elephant in the room that Freesat consortium themselves ignore whilst on the other hand denying the use of 7 day epg data (also broadcast openly) in the Saorview Connect boxes.

    Why would I suggest the banning of satellite dishes ? The problem is not the end user. The problem is the rebroadcast platform chosen by these UK stations. It is their problem to find a spot beam that fulfills the requirements (but as we have already seen, even obscure KA deployment isnt going to keep everyone happy).

    You might think that they cannot have it both ways, but in essence they do.

    This is the current narrow beam freesat use.

    high_ASTRA_2EFG_UK_ku_band_spotbeam_M.jpg

    btw Your point about Irish cable operations does not apply as this is a closed subscriber based encrypted system, not a free to air one. The EU directive you are talking about refers to acceptable overspill not blanket swamping of the other country.


  • #13
    Harry Palmr
    Closed Accounts Posts: 40,059 ✭✭✭✭Harry Palmr


    How many people actually have soarsat (and need to have it?), anyone done a dish count?


  • #14
    FRIENDO
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,421 ✭✭✭FRIENDO


    Harry Palmr wrote: »
    How many people actually have soarsat (and need to have it?), anyone done a dish count?

    You can start by counting my dish :)


  • #15
    icdg
    Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 12,721 Mod ✭✭✭✭icdg


    STB. wrote: »
    In the instance I quoted we had a ludicrous situation whereby the rights holders where complaining to the rights owners not just about the Saorview minimux in NI BUT about the Saorsat broadcasting of champions league games on an obscure KASAT satellite on 9E which requires specialist receiving equipment. This resulted in the widespread blocking of the Saorsat to the whole country.

    Have we ever seen requests by RTE about widespread reception of programmes for which they hold exclusive rights in Ireland ? No is the answer.

    Sky (and Freesat) are knowingly rebroadcasting the UK stations outside of their jurisdiction, unencrypted.

    What do I suggest ? Well the Irish position is to do nothing as its free content in the absence of commercial muxes. This is the elephant in the room that Freesat consortium themselves ignore whilst on the other hand denying the use of 7 day epg data (also broadcast openly) in the Saorview Connect boxes.

    Why would I suggest the banning of satellite dishes ? The problem is not the end user. The problem is the rebroadcast platform chosen by these UK stations. It is their problem to find a spot beam that fulfills the requirements (but as we have already seen, even obscure KA deployment isnt going to keep everyone happy).

    You might think that they cannot have it both ways, but in essence they do.

    This is the current narrow beam freesat use.

    high_ASTRA_2EFG_UK_ku_band_spotbeam_M.jpg

    btw Your point about Irish cable operations does not apply as this is a closed subscriber based encrypted system, not a free to air one. The EU directive you are talking about refers to acceptable overspill not blanket swamping of the other country.

    There’s no requirement under the directive that Broadcasting from one country to another is limited to pay-TV services. Nor is there a requirement that such Broadcasting be limited only to overspill of domestic services.

    Article 3(1) of Directive 2010/13/EU states:

    “Member States shall ensure freedom of reception and shall not restrict retransmissions on their territory of audiovisual media services from other Member States for reasons which fall within the fields coordinated by this Directive.”

    There are a number of satellite channels (not FTA, but FTV) aimed at the Nordic counties operated from the U.K. by Viasat. They are not intended for reception in the U.K., but originate in and are licensed in the U.K. in offset to take advantage of more liberal broadcasting policy. This is most certainly not overspill, it is deliberate targeting of other jurisdictions.


  • #16
    FRIENDO
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,421 ✭✭✭FRIENDO


    icdg wrote: »
    Article 3(1) of Directive 2010/13/EU states:

    “Member States shall ensure freedom of reception and shall not restrict retransmissions on their territory of audiovisual media services from other Member States for reasons which fall within the fields coordinated by this Directive.”

    So can anybody explain what happened to RTE Saorsat Champions league coverage

    It was in the clear in the past, but then blocked, so obviously restrictions have been placed on RTE


  • #17
    Capt'n Midnight
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 96,728 Mod ✭✭✭✭Capt'n Midnight


    Harry Palmr wrote: »
    How many people actually have soarsat (and need to have it?), anyone done a dish count?
    I'm using one too.


    Yes it's possible to have Saorsat on a genuine Freesat box, but you don't get the Irish EPG, just now and next, same as Channel 4 HD really.


    But it's now on a Linux box so it'll probably get replaced by a USB DTT turner on the satellite box. But I'm hoping against hope that TG4 might go HD on Saorsat, but that would upset Virgin.

    Most of the people needing Soarsat would be in the West so TG4 catchment.


  • #18
    icdg
    Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 12,721 Mod ✭✭✭✭icdg


    FRIENDO wrote:

    So can anybody explain what happened to RTE Saorsat Champions league coverage

    It was in the clear in the past, but then blocked, so obviously restrictions have been placed on RTE

    Those restrictions are not being placed on RTE by the U.K. state authorities. That’s a contractual matter between RTE and UEFA, and RTE have decided not to transmit it’s Champions League coverage on that platform. (Annoyingly they don’t show it on Sky Go either, meaning enduring the RTE player and its multiple adverts before letting you watch a live stream).


  • #19
    FRIENDO
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,421 ✭✭✭FRIENDO


    icdg wrote: »
    Those restrictions are not being placed on RTE by the U.K. state authorities. That’s a contractual matter between RTE and UEFA, and RTE have decided not to transmit it’s Champions League coverage on that platform. (Annoyingly they don’t show it on Sky Go either, meaning enduring the RTE player and its multiple adverts before letting you watch a live stream).

    Uefa must not have been to concerned with German TV on 19e last season showing the games, easily accessed in Ireland.
    However I think the German FTA channels have lost the rights this year to Sky Germany.

    Nor did UEFA or RTE have to much concerns about Champions league on Saorsat when ITV had the rights.

    Unfortunately as an alternative RTE player is rubbish, last time I tried watching live football the picture quality was bad and it was pausing.

    My Internet is not great but I have watched Now Tv live sports in the past and it was perfect.

    Unfortunately it's not the same with Champions league on either RTE or 3 player.
    I'll try them again, mabey they have improved.

    Thanks


  • #20
    STB.
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,380 ✭✭✭STB.


    icdg wrote: »
    Those restrictions are not being placed on RTE by the U.K. state authorities. That’s a contractual matter between RTE and UEFA, and RTE have decided not to transmit it’s Champions League coverage on that platform. (Annoyingly they don’t show it on Sky Go either, meaning enduring the RTE player and its multiple adverts before letting you watch a live stream).


    RTE didnt decide anything. They had no choice in the matter. BT made a complaint to the rights owners that fringe reception (overspill) was available outside the country albeit along the Welsh Coast and NI by people using non standard KA LNBs on large dishes pointed in a different direction to domestic receivers at 28.2E!


    A far cry from the swamping of the whole of Ireland by a lot of broadcasters and their providers Sky and Freesat.


  • #21
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 4,896 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    icdg wrote: »
    Those restrictions are not being placed on RTE by the U.K. state authorities. That’s a contractual matter between RTE and UEFA, and RTE have decided not to transmit it’s Champions League coverage on that platform. (Annoyingly they don’t show it on Sky Go either, meaning enduring the RTE player and its multiple adverts before letting you watch a live stream).

    That being so, did RTE & TV3 ever complain to UEFA when ITV had the rights? Many would have switched over from TV3 in SD on Saorview to ITV in HD on satellite to watch a match in better broadcast quality.


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