Should we protest against the pope's visit?

Sleeper12 · 26-08-2018 01:04PM

Irish Kings wrote:

So when is the current state authorities going to be held to account for not prosecuting criminals ? And how are the current state authorities getting away without doing so ?

The state is complicit in the crimes. These stories have been doing the rounds since my mother was a child and she's in her 80s. She knew as a child that terrible things happened to boys in the Artaine industrial school. She knew that the church took babies and sold them to Americans. Obviously in recent years we have had a lot more of these stories but the state was aware of the goings on of these places going back to the foundation of the state.

It suited the state to turn a blind eye. Births and adoptions are state agencies. The state knew that documents were falsified there were non nuns working there too.

The state has good reason not to ask too many questions.

I think you will be waiting a long time for something to be done.

Sleeper12 · 26-08-2018 01:16PM

The first Irish paper reporting the popes cover up

http://www.thejournal.ie/pope-francis-theodore-mccarrick-4202177-Aug2018/

waynerooney · 26-08-2018 01:17PM

Is there legal grounds to extradite Francis to Ireland?

Seth Brundle · 26-08-2018 01:22PM

waynerooney wrote: »

Is there legal grounds to extradite Francis to Ireland?

Apart from the fact that he is in Ireland currently, on what grounds would you have him extradited?

All My Stars Aligned · 26-08-2018 01:22PM

Just heading into the Garden of Remembrance now for the Stand for Truth event. It starts at 3, if anyone can make it in please do.

ELM327 · 26-08-2018 01:23PM

Seth Brundle wrote: »

Apart from the fact that he is in Ireland currently, on what grounds would you have him extradited?

Paedophile enabling, obstructing the course of justice by not reporting crimes he was aware of.

pjohnson · 26-08-2018 01:24PM

Hmm apparently this bishop with the "breaking news" is apparently known for being extremely conservative and regularly disagreed with Francis.

Obviously hes reliable :pac:

Sleeper12 · 26-08-2018 01:31PM

waynerooney wrote:

Is there legal grounds to extradite Francis to Ireland?

It's deporting him is what I'd be doing.

B0jangles · 26-08-2018 01:34PM

All My Stars Aligned wrote: »

Just heading into the Garden of Remembrance now for the Stand for Truth event. It starts at 3, if anyone can make it in please do.

Three of us on our way in there now

Sleeper12 · 26-08-2018 01:34PM

pjohnson wrote:

Hmm apparently this bishop with the "breaking news" is apparently known for being extremely conservative and regularly disagreed with Francis.

pjohnson wrote:

Obviously hes reliable

This story added to the chilli cover up, that the pope already admitted to, sets a pattern.

tylercheribini · 26-08-2018 01:36PM

AdrianII wrote: »

147 pages of absolute cr#p. .

Yet here you are.

FrancieBrady · 26-08-2018 01:36PM

pjohnson wrote: »

Hmm apparently this bishop with the "breaking news" is apparently known for being extremely conservative and regularly disagreed with Francis.

Obviously hes reliable :pac:

There are more who can verify this than the bishop.

You are gonna need a bigger scatter gun to discredit them too.

Laughable and pathetic at this stage that so many of the 'faithful' keep the blind eye turned.

gormdubhgorm · 26-08-2018 01:57PM

work wrote: »

I believe a huge protest against the popes visit is required to show the government and church they are no longer welcome or wanted in our society. What do you think? There are many stakeholders that should protest their removal from any influence in our society. Some that come to mind are:
1) Anyone not supportive of misogyny
2) Anyone that doesn't believe in school indoctrination of children in a massive lie.
3) Anyone concerned about abusers in positions allowing abuse
4) Anyone with the most basic scientific education.
5) Anyone that doesn't support cults
6) Anyone that believes LGBT people should be treated fairly in society.
7) Anyone that believes women should have ANY control of their bodies.
8) Anyone that is not seen as equal in the church namely women children and men.

There are many other areas but I realised I have covered everyone. As such let's all go to the Phoenix park to let the Vatican know they are not welcome.
Are there any peaceful groups planning to protest?

This amuses me.

Bar the clerical abuse scandals, I do not think the upper echelons of the church are going to be bothered about anything else you have listed.
I would not consider myself catholic. But I understand that they have doctrines that are not changed like the flick of a switch.
There are a number of issues with your list though.

1) I doubt the Catholic church think they are misogynist they just do not permit women priests. They would argue that the likes of Mother Theresa who was declared a saint shows how highly the church values women etc

2) There is indoctrination of children in all forms of things, not just through religion. It can be done through nationally or by parental influence of many variants. Should parents be protested against for thier beliefs for example?
It is bit of a silly comment on your part I think.

3) As I said in my original comment - abuse scandals are the only thing the church feel ashamed about - it is costing them money as well as followers.

4) The scientific education part of your post amuses me as many priests and christian brothers from Ireland are and were/are highly educated and were responsible for educating people in India/Africa and so on. Not just in Ireland.

5) Correct me if I am wrong in the pejorative sense of the word 'cult'. A cult is something people are forced or coerced to join and stay in.
Nobody is forced to stay in the catholic church!

6) As regards the LGBT community the catholic church views this as a sin, but at the same wishes to treat those groups with as much compassion as they can.
That is thier line whether you like it or not.

7) The Catholic Church line on abortion is very clear as well they view abortion as against catholic teachings - taking a life thou shalt not kill etc
There are still a substantial amount of people who believe this - which is a large part of thier being a practicing Catholic in the first place!

8) When you say women are not equal - what equality do you wish to see?
Priests? Cardinals? Bishops?
The women who are currently working as lay people/nuns or missionaries seem to be happy enough with thier role. If not it is up to them to change it from within the church.
How are children not viewed as equal in the church? They would say the church teachings on abortion and the unborn prove that they have children's rights to the forefront of their minds etc etc

I do not think it is for people outside the church to protest. People who do not believe in the teachings of the Catholic church should not go to Mass at all or go to Catholic schools etc.
The pretense should stop, no more 'al a carte Catholics' people should be in fully or not at all.

For those who believe in the Catholic church let them off, let them enjoy themselves.
But, as far as I am concerned it has nothing to with me why should I interfere?

Strazdas · 26-08-2018 02:02PM

Sleeper12 wrote: »

The first Irish paper reporting the popes cover up

http://www.thejournal.ie/pope-francis-theodore-mccarrick-4202177-Aug2018/

RTE's Tony Connelly pointed out a few minutes ago though that this guy is an arch conservative who strongly dislikes the current Pope and who would do anything to see the back of him.

Sycamore Tree · 26-08-2018 02:04PM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

pjohnson wrote: »

Hmm apparently this bishop with the "breaking news" is apparently known for being extremely conservative and regularly disagreed with Francis.

Obviously hes reliable :pac:

There are more who can verify this than the bishop.

You are gonna need a bigger scatter gun to discredit them too.

Laughable and pathetic at this stage that so many of the 'faithful' keep the blind eye turned.

Its a little bit scary how the first instinct by those loyal to Rome is to shoot the messenger. I just don't get that.

I mean the Vatican prides itself on its secrecy but when a whistleblower comes along, the flock attack it. Perhaps it's an Irish thing. Same happened to McCabe.

Sleeper12 · 26-08-2018 02:21PM

Strazdas wrote: »

RTE's Tony Connelly pointed out a few minutes ago though that this guy is an arch conservative who strongly dislikes the current Pope and who would do anything to see the back of him.

Anything? I assume that includes the truth?

If you don't like that story we can always go back to Chilli

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/02/05/world/europe/pope-sex-abuse-barros-karadima.html

ROME — Things keep getting worse for Pope Francis.

Late last month, the pope reiterated his defense of a Chilean bishop, contending that he had never received any complaints that the prelate knew of abuse by the country’s most notorious pedophile priest.

But on Monday, The Associated Press reported that the pope personally received an eight-page letter in 2015 from one of the victims. The letter explicitly detailed abuses the victim said were witnessed by other clerics, including Juan Barros Madrid, who was appointed bishop of Osorno, Chile, that year.

The report that one of the pope’s top advisers had personally handed him the letter has revived accusations by advocates for abuse victims that the 81-year-old pontiff cannot, or will not, understand an issue that has long roiled the Roman Catholic Church.

El Papa publicly criticized the victims & claimed they were slandering the Bishop. When the article above was published he had to backtrack, and issue an apology.
He does have a track record of trying the cover abuse up

The high horse brigade · 26-08-2018 02:36PM

Very decent turn out in Tuam

euser1984 · 26-08-2018 02:43PM

the reason is very simple.

he did not apologise and has never apologised for political reasons. no matter what pope is in power there are limits to his power.

the limit being that if he apologised and the taoiseach apologises it means state payouts....with the amount of people affected the cost would be detrimental and put the country out of business.

however, it is important to note that the church is not the "real issue" here; paedophile rings are and the church knows this....paedophile rings exist in every institution or meet and organise some other ways be it a secret society or whatever. they are all around you. 1 in every 100 people you meet on the street is a paedophile

you should check out a very interesting psychologytoday article about it. the police in the uk cannot do anything about it because there are too many paedophiles

then you should go out and think well what has the pope brought to ireland positively, wherepeople are willing to overlook the flaws of institutions and human nature because they know that not all of them are bad

Fighting Tao · 26-08-2018 02:43PM

Genuine question... could it be considered religious discrimination to charge for public transport today only for those not going to see the pope?

euser1984 · 26-08-2018 02:45PM

Fighting Tao wrote: »

Genuine question... could it be considered religious discrimination to charge for public transport today only for those not going to see the pope?

no because a lot of people going to the pope may have very little money in 2018

the ones that needed to go the most were the ones that did not have anything

that is one of the beauties of ireland people love all over the world

Sleeper12 · 26-08-2018 02:56PM

Fighting Tao wrote:

Genuine question... could it be considered religious discrimination to charge for public transport today only for those not going to see the pope?

I thought public transport in Dublin today was only for ticket holders. I didn't know they had a regular service

BliainanAir · 26-08-2018 02:58PM

ELM327 wrote: »

Paedophile enabling, obstructing the course of justice by not reporting crimes he was aware of.

Listened to a lot of news bulletins from around the world today. The 'shock' news overnight from the US seems to have been spread by a rival Bishop to Francis, basically unfounded material to try and discredit him right in the middle of his Irish visit. Perfect timing.

Hitman3000 · 26-08-2018 02:59PM

BliainanAir wrote:

Listened to a lot of news bulletins from around the world today. The 'shock' news overnight from the US seems to have been spread by a rival Bishop to Francis, basically unfounded material to try and discredit him right in the middle of his Irish visit. Perfect timing.

Is it unfounded?

Discodog · 26-08-2018 03:02PM

BliainanAir wrote: »

Listened to a lot of news bulletins from around the world today. The 'shock' news overnight from the US seems to have been spread by a rival Bishop to Francis, basically unfounded material to try and discredit him right in the middle of his Irish visit. Perfect timing.

:pac:

Father Ted was a documentary

BliainanAir · 26-08-2018 03:10PM

Hitman3000 wrote: »

Is it unfounded?

It's not proven. The haters were out in force here this morning saying stuff like 'how do you feel about last night's revelations?'. Same people who would be saying innocent until proven guilty in civil cases.

Just popped in here today and it's remarkable how hate filled and negative these threads are.

Why 3 threads to catholic bash? Boards has a lot to answer for. It has descended into farce this year with one sided moderation.

I only usually use it for my interests in meteorology, who are a really genuine sound bunch of posters where all are welcome.

Aetheist, agnostic, spiritual, New Age, Hindu, Christian, everyone should be allowed make their points in an atmosphere of fair play.

Boards has turned into a populist echo chamber. They're are some excellent moderators but way too many that the title seems to have gone to their heads and who lack intelligence, common sense and fair play and can't control their bias.

Some posters are let away with everything. It's obvious to most neutrals and why many stay away from political and social threads here.

Sleeper12 · 26-08-2018 03:12PM

Rte Joe Little

Religious & Social Affairs Correspondent says:

However, Archbishop Vigano is also widely respected for blowing the whistle on financial corruption in the Vatican City state in 2011.

https://www.rte.ie/news/2018/0826/987632-pope-church-vigano/

His claims shouldn't be automatically dismissed.

BliainanAir · 26-08-2018 03:13PM

Discodog wrote: »

:pac:

Father Ted was a documentary

You obviously never watched Fr. Ted too closely. Fr. Dick Byrne was a rival priest. Bishop Brennan had no rival.

Your post is a prime example of what happens here. A fella tries to be flippant and funny and makes a balls of it.

Allinall · 26-08-2018 03:17PM

BliainanAir wrote: »

It's not proven. The haters were out in force here this morning saying stuff like 'how do you feel about last night's revelations?'. Same people who would be saying innocent until proven guilty in civil cases.

Just popped in here today and it's remarkable how hate filled and negative these threads are.

Why 3 threads to catholic bash? Boards has a lot to answer for. It has descended into farce this year with one sided moderation.

I only usually use it for my interests in meteorology, who are a really genuine sound bunch of posters where all are welcome.

Aetheist, agnostic, spiritual, New Age, Hindu, Christian, everyone should be allowed make their points in an atmosphere of fair play.

Boards has turned into a populist echo chamber. They're are some excellent moderators but way too many that the title seems to have gone to their heads and who lack intelligence, common sense and fair play and can't control their bias.

Some posters are let away with everything. It's obvious to most neutrals and why many stay away from political and social threads here.

+ 1

homerjay2005 · 26-08-2018 03:17PM

The high horse brigade wrote: »

Very decent turn out in Tuam

about 100 people.

BliainanAir · 26-08-2018 03:19PM

Last post here.

It's really pathetic that a cohort of posters spend hours, days, weeks of their lives Catholic bashing, church bashing etc.

What are you going to achieve on here? Absolutely nothing. This isn't real life...it's nothing.

Really people need to assess why are they wasting their lives away. It can't be good for your mental health. It must be terrible for physical health spending so much screen time, possibly getting overweight through lack of exercise, bad posture, back pain. A very unhealthy lifestyle. It's imperative to engage with the real world.

I'm off for a run. Take care folks. Enjoy the papal visit. It's a once in a lifetime.

Should we protest against the pope's visit?

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