School taxi - allowing a disabled 16 y.o to eat in taxi

Spook_ie · 23-08-2018 01:37AM #1

https://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/bus-eireann-ordered-to-pay-5k-to-autistic-boy-who-was-not-allowed-eat-toast-in-back-of-school-taxi-863835.html

Given that a taxi can refuse allowing food to be consumed without the consent of the driver

https://www.nationaltransport.ie/taxi-and-bus-licensing/taxi/spsv-driver-licensing/rights-and-responsibilities/

Right to refuse service
You may reasonably refuse:

To undertake journeys of more than 30km (in a taxi);
To allow passengers to consume food or drink in your vehicle;
To carry, or continue to carry, passengers who are acting in a disorderly, abusive or offensive manner; and
To carry, or continue to carry, passengers who are likely to soil or damage the vehicle.

Does the fact he allowed food to be consumed before do away with his rights to refuse now or in the future? Or does the fact of doing School Bus services invoke a whole new set of rules?

Peregrinus · 23-08-2018 02:25AM

This was a disability discrmination case. It's not the taxi driver who was sued here; it's BE. They were the ones with the responsibility to provide school transport suitable to the boy's needs. They contracted with a taxi driver who wouldn't allow eating in the car, which was not suitable to the boy's needs arising out of his disability. They could contract with people who were prepared to allow eating, and had done so in the past, so they couldn't say that it was unreasonably difficult to meet the boy's needs.

Rows Grower · 23-08-2018 07:55AM

Peregrinus wrote: »

This was a disability discrmination case. It's not the taxi driver who was sued here; it's BE. They were the ones with the responsibility to provide school transport suitable to the boy's needs. They contracted with a taxi driver who wouldn't allow eating in the car, which was not suitable to the boy's needs arising out of his disability. They could contract with people who were prepared to allow eating, and had done so in the past, so they couldn't say that it was unreasonably difficult to meet the boy's needs.

In all fairness it is a ridiculous award and I hope it is successfully appealed.

In my opinion the parents need to take ownership of this problem and teach their child that it is not allowed to eat breakfast in the back of a taxi.

We need to teach all our children no matter what their disabilities or disorders that they must have respect for other people and their property.

iamwhoiam · 23-08-2018 08:00AM

What a fuss over nothing . My granddaughter eats a slice of toast here , we get a few crumbs , we wipe them down , get a baby wipe and scoop them up !

Peregrinus · 23-08-2018 08:00AM

Rows Grower wrote: »

In all fairness it is a ridiculous award and I hope it is successfully appealed.

In my opinion the parents need to take ownership of this problem and teach their child that it is not allowed to eat breakfast in the back of a taxi.

We need to teach all our children no matter what their disabilities or disorders that they must have respect for other people and their property.

I think "other people" includes the boy, and a fairly minimal requirement for respecting him is that we recognise his disability and make reasonable accommodations for it. Allowing him to eat in a car is hardly radical; lots of people eat in cars, and nowadays they mostly come with coffee-cup holders, so it seems a widely socially accepted practice.

Rows Grower · 23-08-2018 08:35AM

Peregrinus wrote: »

I think "other people" includes the boy, and a fairly minimal requirement for respecting him is that we recognise his disability and make reasonable accommodations for it. Allowing him to eat in a car is hardly radical; lots of people eat in cars, and nowadays they mostly come with coffee-cup holders, so it seems a widely socially accepted practice.

You can think what you want.

He is already being recognised as disabled and more than reasonable accommodations have been made for him.

He doesn't have to use the bus service other kids use, a privately owned taxi picks him up and drops him off to minimize any trauma he might have to suffer by travelling with the kids he presumably shares a classroom with.

The taxi driver spent 60 grand on a new taxi and is being very reasonable to request that the lad changes his habit of eating his toast in the back of his taxi every morning.

"It seems a widely socially acceptable practice"?????????????

I really hope to God this judgement is appealed and over ruled.

Rows Grower · 23-08-2018 08:37AM

iamwhoiam wrote: »

What a fuss over nothing . My granddaughter eats a slice of toast here , we get a few crumbs , we wipe them down , get a baby wipe and scoop them up !

Couldn't agree more, that's what homes and parenting are all about.

BobMc · 23-08-2018 09:30AM

Rows Grower wrote: »

Couldn't agree more, that's what homes and parenting are all about.

"Parenting" is the key here, its lacking hugely in todays society

ohnonotgmail · 23-08-2018 09:35AM

Rows Grower wrote: »

You can think what you want.

He is already being recognised as disabled and more than reasonable accommodations have been made for him.

He doesn't have to use the bus service other kids use, a privately owned taxi picks him up and drops him off to minimize any trauma he might have to suffer by travelling with the kids he presumably shares a classroom with.

The taxi driver spent 60 grand on a new taxi and is being very reasonable to request that the lad changes his habit of eating his toast in the back of his taxi every morning.

"It seems a widely socially acceptable practice"?????????????

I really hope to God this judgement is appealed and over ruled.

Presumably you didnt read beyond the headline?

JMNolan · 23-08-2018 01:19PM

Rows Grower wrote: »

In all fairness it is a ridiculous award and I hope it is successfully appealed.

In my opinion the parents need to take ownership of this problem and teach their child that it is not allowed to eat breakfast in the back of a taxi.

We need to teach all our children no matter what their disabilities or disorders that they must have respect for other people and their property.

Exactly, and those kids in wheelchairs should be simple taught how to walk :rolleyes:

Rows Grower · 23-08-2018 01:44PM

JMNolan wrote: »

Exactly, and those kids in wheelchairs should be simple taught how to walk :rolleyes:

Great contribution to the thread, well done.

RocketRaccoon · 23-08-2018 01:46PM

This country really is the drizzling ****s nowadays, awarded damages for not being allowed eat in the back of a taxi?

Laneyh · 23-08-2018 01:52PM

How much mess would some toast generate? Of course all children need boundaries including those with disabilities but people with autism can be set back quite a bit when there is a change in their routine. A two minute blast of the portable vacuum and there would be no evidence of any toast being eaten

jam_mac_jam · 23-08-2018 01:54PM

I love the idea that you can just teach an autistic kid to abandon their routine and that it's just bad parenting.

mloc123 · 23-08-2018 02:00PM

Laneyh wrote: »

How much mess would some toast generate?

My three year old can generate quite a mess from a slice of toast... it's the buttery fingers that does it

Apiarist · 23-08-2018 02:01PM

Rows Grower wrote: »

In all fairness it is a ridiculous award and I hope it is successfully appealed.

I hope you would read about autism and understand the condition since it is obvious you know nothing about it.

Rows Grower · 23-08-2018 02:24PM

victor8600 wrote: »

I hope you would read about autism and understand the condition since it is obvious you know nothing about it.

I have first hand experience of living with and caring for an autistic child.

frozenfrozen · 23-08-2018 02:28PM

The taxi driver is well within his rights to not allow someone to eat in his taxi. Someone could easily do damage with toast. I know that sounds ridiculous but you can't be expected to valet your rear seats after every trip, and if you did then you'd rightfully have to be compensated for it.

It's not the taxi drivers fault here, find someone else who will do it but you can't force him to allow eating in his taxi

Apiarist · 23-08-2018 02:32PM

Rows Grower wrote: »

I have first hand experience of living with and caring for an autistic child.

Really? Your caring approach for an autistic child seems to be to deny them their breakfast routine (and effectively preventing them from eating breakfast), just so that a taxi driver does not have to Hoover a few bread crumbs?

23-08-2018 02:34PM

Rows Grower wrote: »

I have first hand experience of living with and caring for an autistic child.

The fact you call him an austic child rather than a child with autism would make me question that.

Apiarist · 23-08-2018 02:35PM

frozenfrozen wrote: »

The taxi driver is well within his rights to not allow someone to eat in his taxi. Someone could easily do damage with toast. I know that sounds ridiculous but you can't be expected to valet your rear seats after every trip, and if you did then you'd rightfully have to be compensated for it.

It's not the taxi drivers fault here, find someone else who will do it but you can't force him to allow eating in his taxi

Read the thread from the beginning?

Peregrinus wrote: »

This was a disability discrmination case. It's not the taxi driver who was sued here; it's BE. They were the ones with the responsibility to provide school transport suitable to the boy's needs. They contracted with a taxi driver who wouldn't allow eating in the car, which was not suitable to the boy's needs arising out of his disability. They could contract with people who were prepared to allow eating, and had done so in the past, so they couldn't say that it was unreasonably difficult to meet the boy's needs.

Rows Grower · 23-08-2018 02:37PM

victor8600 wrote: »

Really? Your caring approach for an autistic child seems to be to deny them their breakfast routine (and effectively preventing them from eating breakfast), just so that a taxi driver does not have to Hoover a few bread crumbs?

Really.

Nermal · 23-08-2018 02:37PM

Peregrinus wrote: »

I think "other people" includes the boy, and a fairly minimal requirement for respecting him is that we recognise his disability and make reasonable accommodations for it.

Sending him to school in a taxi - let alone one that would let him eat along the way - already far oversteps the bounds of reasonable accommodation. It doesn't mean 'catering to his every whim in case he has a tantrum'.

myshirt · 23-08-2018 02:37PM

Total discrimination against this young child. These are extremely lucrative contracts remember. They seem to forget that in favour of their unrelenting self interest. /Mod deletion/ They've absolutely some brass neck to give out about this child eating his toast, particularly given the childs disability. Have we no sense of humanity any more?

I detail my car. Not a lot even know what detailing is. In short, I keep the car clean. But I would never, ever pull a disabled child up on eating some toast. They have enough daily challenges to be meeting than to be worrying about some crumbs. I'd be absolutely ashamed of myself, and these f#ckers should be as well. These type of stories boil the blood. The poor kid.

5k wasn't enough. There should be further punative damages. I remember the Rosario Donohoue / Carolan Coaches story a number of years ago where the driver punched a disabled child and it stuck with me. Where do these people get off? They take the shine off some very decent people who help out young kids.

myshirt · 23-08-2018 02:50PM

Rows Grower wrote: »

I have first hand experience of living with and caring for an autistic child.

I'd bet my left nut on it you don't.

98q76e12hrflnk · 23-08-2018 02:54PM

victor8600 wrote: »

Really? Your caring approach for an autistic child seems to be to deny them their breakfast routine (and effectively preventing them from eating breakfast), just so that a taxi driver does not have to Hoover a few bread crumbs?

So if you have autism that means you cannot change your routine at all?:rolleyes:

seamus · 23-08-2018 02:55PM

I expect the "right to refuse" quoted in the OP can be found to not apply to the situation quoted since this was a contracted regular service rather than an incidental hire.

The driver could have refused the contract initially, but given that he had previously permitted the consumption of food, his "right to refuse" on that ground was therefore waived for the duration of the contract.

Although as has been stated upthread, the issue was primarily with BÉ. When they became aware of this restriction, they should have terminated the contract with the taxi driver and found a new one.

Taxi driver comes across as a complete asshole.

Apiarist · 23-08-2018 02:56PM

Rows Grower wrote: »

Really.

I call BS on your "first hand experience".

Nermal wrote: »

Sending him to school in a taxi - let alone one that would let him eat along the way - already far oversteps the bounds of reasonable accommodation.

I would agree with you in general, but we do not know the specifics, so I would tend to agree with the judge in this case who presumably does know the details. In general, I would not advocate that every child with a disability be given a taxi to eat in. However, we do not know why the boy had to be taxied to school and why he had to eat in transit originally. What we do know is that breaking his routine would very likely cause him an unnecessary stress which could have been avoided if the new arrangement was made with the consideration of his needs.

98q76e12hrflnk · 23-08-2018 02:57PM

myshirt wrote: »

Total discrimination against this young child. These are extremely lucrative contracts remember. They seem to forget that in favour of their unrelenting self interest. Pure scumbags. They've absolutely some brass neck to give out about this child eating his toast, particularly given the childs disability. Have we no sense of humanity any more?

I detail my car. Not a lot even know what detailing is. In short, I keep the car clean. But I would never, ever pull a disabled child up on eating some toast. They have enough daily challenges to be meeting than to be worrying about some crumbs. I'd be absolutely ashamed of myself, and these f#ckers should be as well. These type of stories boil the blood. The poor kid.

5k wasn't enough. There should be further punative damages. I remember the Rosario Donohoue / Carolan Coaches story a number of years ago where the driver punched a disabled child and it stuck with me. Where do these people get off? They take the shine off some very decent people who help out young kids.

Are you actually being serious?

Rows Grower · 23-08-2018 02:57PM

You can believe what you want, it doesn't matter to me.

Plus I'd have no use for your left nut.

This was in reply to post 25 which I meant to quote as well but got distracted.

23-08-2018 03:06PM

Spook_ie wrote:

Does the fact he allowed food to be consumed before do away with his rights to refuse now or in the future? Or does the fact of doing School Bus services invoke a whole new set of rules?

A taxi driver can allow me to eat food yet refuse to let you eat food. Letting one eat doesn't mean they have to let everyone eat. A taxi at the start of the shift wants to keep the car clean and smell free. Towards the end of the shift they might relax the rules as they will need to clean the car at the end of the shift anyway.

It's their car and they get to make the rules.

School taxi - allowing a disabled 16 y.o to eat in taxi

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