Why is Ireland`s National Debt Clock almost as high as Poland`s?

realitykeeper · 18-08-2018 11:38PM #1

Poland has ten times the population of the Republic of Ireland yet Ireland`s national debt is definitely not 10% of Poland`s, it is more like eighty something %. Certainly there will be the usual chorus of assertions about Ireland`s higher income per capita and all that but Ireland`s vulnerability is nonetheless extreme. If a recession hit hard, the income the country is so dependent on will no longer there to service the debt. What will Ireland do then?

dr.fuzzenstein · 18-08-2018 11:41PM

Where you around about 10 years ago?

Silentcorner · 18-08-2018 11:41PM

We'll all be pulling on the green jerseys I'd imagine...I mean...we are where we are!

Arghus · 18-08-2018 11:44PM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GtWA3jQN1Pg

goose2005 · 18-08-2018 11:44PM

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_public_debt

Ireland's is 70% of GDP. Not that high

Alf Veedersane · 18-08-2018 11:49PM

The clock is an hour ahead in Poland though...an hour is a long time in economics, as someone possibly says.

California Dreamer · 18-08-2018 11:59PM

Because we haven't taxed ourselves out of the debt!!! Isn't that the governments answer to everything? TAX TAX TAX!!!!

jobeenfitz · 19-08-2018 12:03AM

goose2005 wrote: »

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_public_debt

Ireland's is 70% of GDP. Not that high

GDP can crash fast, as we now know. 70% not that low either!

LeinsterDub · 19-08-2018 12:03AM

California Dreamer wrote: »

Because we haven't taxed ourselves out of the debt!!! Isn't that the governments answer to everything? TAX TAX TAX!!!!

You inflate or grow your way out of debt. The US has been at it for years. If you want less tax what services would you like cut?

Kermit.de.frog · 19-08-2018 12:10AM

jobeenfitz wrote: »

GDP can crash fast, as we now know. 70% not that low either!

As long as governments are elected that will not blow a hole in our finances we'll be fine.

Right now the trajectory is good. That can change very quickly though...

Geuze · 19-08-2018 12:10AM

http://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/tgm/table.do?tab=table&init=1&language=en&pcode=sdg_17_40&plugin=1

Irish public debt, 2017

68% of GDP
approx 200 bn

Poland, 2017
51% of GDP

Geuze · 19-08-2018 12:12AM

General_government_debt%2C_2016_and_2017_%28%C2%B9%29_%28General_government_consolidated_gross_debt%2C_%25_of_GDP%29.png

Kermit.de.frog · 19-08-2018 12:15AM

Italy in a bailout this time next year - put money on it

Except there won't be enough money for the rescue

Hammer89 · 19-08-2018 12:18AM

I think a more important question is where you found that apostrophe.

California Dreamer · 19-08-2018 12:18AM

LeinsterDub wrote: »

You inflate or grow your way out of debt. The US has been at it for years. If you want less tax what services would you like cut?

At midnight on a Saturday night which part of what I said did you think was not total arse!?v:rolleyes:

Irish_rat · 19-08-2018 12:46AM

realitykeeper wrote: »

What will Ireland do then?

Default or whatever the IMF tell them to do.

Seriously though it's not something worth thinking about life's too short.

Victor · 19-08-2018 02:05AM

Fianna Fáil.

realitykeeper wrote: »

Poland has ten times the population of the Republic of Ireland

Eight.

yet Ireland`s national debt is definitely not 10% of Poland`s, it is more like eighty something %.

A few factors, but it is important to note that Ireland's economy is a lot more than 10% of Poland's.

A the fall of communism, Poland probably started with almost no structural debt, just short-term trading debt.

Mongfinder General · 19-08-2018 02:15AM

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Italy in a bailout this time next year - put money on it

Except there won't be enough money for the rescue

This is a long time coming. It doesn’t help that they’re a bunch of liars. Anything loaned to them is waste of time.

Franz Von Peppercorn · 19-08-2018 02:21AM

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

As long as governments are elected that will not blow a hole in our finances we'll be fine.

Right now the trajectory is good. That can change very quickly though...

Actually the last crash happened because of capitalism not left wing government overspending.

Not that the Irish left are anything but a rabble.

Franz Von Peppercorn · 19-08-2018 02:22AM

Mongfinder General wrote: »

This is a long time coming. It doesn’t help that they’re a bunch of liars. Anything loaned to them is waste of time.

Christ. Didn’t realise anti Italian bigotry was so advanced in Ireland.

LeinsterDub · 19-08-2018 03:52AM

California Dreamer wrote: »

At midnight on a Saturday night which part of what I said did you think was not total arse!?v:rolleyes:

I've no idea what you're talking about. It wasn't midnight where I am

Kermit.de.frog · 19-08-2018 04:46AM

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

Actually the last crash happened because of capitalism.

No.

The last crash happened because of a stupid Irish government.

Nothing to do with capitalism and everything to do with no regulation and feckless expenditure.

If you don't run your country properly you end up in trouble.

Others want to blame the EU etc.

Our problems then were our fault. No one else's. You get what you vote for.

Kermit.de.frog · 19-08-2018 04:54AM

Mongfinder General wrote: »

This is a long time coming. It doesn’t help that they’re a bunch of liars. Anything loaned to them is waste of time.

The only people buying Italian debt now are the ECB and that ends in October.

No way out for Italy. They elected populists and have not reformed their country at all in the last ten years.

The EU and IMF together don't have the resources to bail them out.

They will fall out of the Euro and it will be the biggest financial disaster of a country in Europe since the Weimar Republic. That's my prediction!

_Brian · 19-08-2018 04:56AM

LeinsterDub wrote: »

You inflate or grow your way out of debt. The US has been at it for years. If you want less tax what services would you like cut?

Let’s start with something simple and obvious like the dole for anyone more than 3 years out of work. The professionally unemployed needs addressing, not taxing us more to support them.

realitykeeper · 19-08-2018 05:59AM

goose2005 wrote: »

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_public_debt

Ireland's is 70% of GDP. Not that high

GDP gets hit hard by recessions but debt does not. In fact, interest rates increase when recessions come and companies close. Also, GDP is strongly influenced by the velocity of money in the economy and that slows when recessions hit.

The extraordinary QE program conducted by the ECB cannot be repeated for the next recession without serious consequences.

realitykeeper · 19-08-2018 06:01AM

California Dreamer wrote: »

Because we haven't taxed ourselves out of the debt!!! Isn't that the governments answer to everything? TAX TAX TAX!!!!

Cutting would make a lot more sense.

Del2005 · 19-08-2018 06:01AM

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

No.

The last crash happened because of a stupid Irish government.

Nothing to do with capitalism and everything to do with no regulation and feckless expenditure.

If you don't run your country properly you end up in trouble.

Others want to blame the EU etc.

Our problems then were our fault. No one else's. You get what you vote for.

So the financial crash that nearly bankrupted the world's banking system which required governments to bail out the banks was our fault. I thought that it was because a US bank collapsed and brought down the house of cards, thanks for correcting history and letting me know it was our fault

As a matter of interest what could we have done not to collapse the world banking system which lead to one of the biggest international recessions? And considering that we were paying more out than we earned how where we to keep the country running after we told the lenders to feck off we aren't paying our debts, regardless of them been secured or not?

realitykeeper · 19-08-2018 06:06AM

LeinsterDub wrote: »

You inflate or grow your way out of debt. The US has been at it for years. If you want less tax what services would you like cut?

How can we inflate our way out of Debt? Ireland is in the Eurozone. Do you think Germany, the Netherlands and Finland will agree to that?

realitykeeper · 19-08-2018 06:24AM

Geuze wrote: »

... but check out this link and look at Ireland`s debt per capita. The only two countries in the world with higher debt per capita are Luxembourg and Palau.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_external_debt

Luxembourg is an outlier, there is probably some distorting reason for that. Of course, some say Ireland`s GDP is distorted and GNP should be used. Remember Paul Krugman`s leprechaun economics jibe?

realitykeeper · 19-08-2018 06:29AM

Irish_rat wrote: »

Default or whatever the IMF tell them to do.

Seriously though it's not something worth thinking about life's too short.

If you live in a war zone can you simply ignore it? The national debt will have consequences you cannot ignore.

kalych · 19-08-2018 06:58AM

Del2005 wrote:

So the financial crash that nearly bankrupted the world's banking system which required governments to bail out the banks was our fault. I thought that it was because a US bank collapsed and brought down the house of cards, thanks for correcting history and letting me know it was our fault

Absolutely correct, however world's financial crash does not equal Irish crash. Irish crash happened because we let Anglo and others lend 60+bn to property developers.

Del2005 wrote:

As a matter of interest what could we have done not to collapse the world banking system which lead to one of the biggest international recessions? And considering that we were paying more out than we earned how where we to keep the country running after we told the lenders to feck off we aren't paying our debts, regardless of them been secured or not?

Probably nothing. What we could have done, though, is regulate banks and the property market better. Kind of like Belgium, Netherlands, Poland, Austria, Finland and oh I don't know, pretty much every other small but reasonable EU nation has done. So that they didn't bankrupt the country. Oh well, maybe next time...

Why is Ireland`s National Debt Clock almost as high as Poland`s?

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