Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2018/2019 [Mod note 31-Aug-18]

Will I Am Not · 09-08-2018 12:29PM

Quandary wrote: »

I really don't understand this lat3 approach for Godin. Why the hell was a defender of his caliber not approached before now if we were interested in him.

Utd are looking very amateurish in their transfer dealings in this window. Everyone and their dog knows Mourinho has his faults but it's been very clear that he gave his list of desired centre backs to Woodward ages ago. We are in position to pay top money and top wages and it's not like Manchester United are an unattractive club to any prospective signing. The fact that we have not managed to sign a decent central defender by now seriously smacks of incompetence to me.

If the window closes without us signing a centre back it will be unacceptable.

If it’s true and that’s a big if, there’s a good chance we are going to have the pants pulled down for someone mediocre by 17:00.

Claude Burgundy · 09-08-2018 12:30PM

Sky sources are saying that man utd are looking to dig up the body of Bobby Moore in an attempt to sign it as every other centre back has said no to joining.

TheDoc · 09-08-2018 12:31PM

Just when I thought the club had sorted themselves out regarding transfers and strategy, this mess of a summer starts.

Regardless of what happens today, or the season, or with Jose, club needs a long hard look at itself and sort out a proper strategy and policy for transfers and squad building.

It really is high time that we move to a modern structure where transfer requirements and demands are not soley at the behest of the manager.

It's too much money and too much upheavel putting it on a person who likely will be at the club for 2-3 seasons.

At some point the penny needs to drop with the board that they need to put some proper structure and planning in place.

09-08-2018 12:31PM

Full presser. Jose spot on.

Drumpot · 09-08-2018 12:33PM

threein99 wrote: »

I just don't see how that's possible with the volume of average players, Smalling, Jones, Rojo, Lindelof (average is generous for him) and Young.

I am not saying we cannot improve it but Defence wasn't a problem last season. I also think Jose is great at setting up teams that defend well where the individual talent can be compensated with a disciplined organised team. I think that's why he loves players like Fellani who will do exactly what he asks to do and why Pogba was such a disappointment to him.

I think a big problem was central midfield where we had so many injuries that led to the Pogba playing deeper issue and ultimately having to rely on McTominey. Herrera, Fellani and Carrick were injured for long periods and Pogba clearly wasn't that interested in dropping back to help out. Hopefully Fred has reduced this issue.

Also, if Pogba and Sanchez raise their game we are a completely different prospect going forward.

Lord TSC · 09-08-2018 12:33PM

WinnyThePoo wrote: »

There is utterly no proof we are in for him. The media are reporting we are in for plethora of centre backs. Have they forgotten we have four centre backs at the club.

Simon Stone is pretty much bulletproof and he says we made an offers.

Remember, we still have 3 weeks to sell players. If we got a CB in today, we'd probably look to shift Rojo abroad in the next three weeks.

TheDoc · 09-08-2018 12:36PM

Quandary wrote: »

I really don't understand this lat3 approach for Godin. Why the hell was a defender of his caliber not approached before now if we were interested in him.

Utd are looking very amateurish in their transfer dealings in this window. Everyone and their dog knows Mourinho has his faults but it's been very clear that he gave his list of desired centre backs to Woodward ages ago. We are in position to pay top money and top wages and it's not like Manchester United are an unattractive club to any prospective signing. The fact that we have not managed to sign a decent central defender by now seriously smacks of incompetence to me.

If the window closes without us signing a centre back it will be unacceptable.

Has read to me all summer that the club are not comfortable in releasing the funds for this manager who has generally squandered a lot already with little return.

The club want to act responsibly and they want to be more long term in their planning( not wanting to sell Pogba or Martial) but that requires a genuine implementation, and requires a coach, not a manager.

While we are the richest club in the world and can and should buy whoever we want etc., I do appreciate their being some due dilligence. Just because you "have" the money doesn't mean you just pay whatever.

It's that recklessness that can ruin clubs, and I'd like our club to be prudent.

So the likes of 80m for Maguire, yeah, that shouldn't be done. Nor the 60-70m reports for Sandro. Or the 70-80m for Perisic.

At the same time, inroads should have been made on that target list months ago.

I do sympathise with everyone involved. Manager wants who he wants and doesn't care about how much it costs. IF he doesn't get them, its ready made excuses. And look some of it is geniune as well.

Club are dealing in a realm where nobody needs to sell, we deal with the Premier League AND United Tax, and we have to cough up extraordinary amounts of money for smack bang average - good players.

Fitz* · 09-08-2018 12:37PM

https://twitter.com/JonnyGabriel/status/1027517100120784898

threein99 · 09-08-2018 12:38PM

Drumpot wrote: »

I am not saying we cannot improve it but Defence wasn't a problem last season. I also think Jose is great at setting up teams that defend well where the individual talent can be compensated with a disciplined organised team. I think that's why he loves players like Fellani who will do exactly what he asks to do and why Pogba was such a disappointment to him.

I think a big problem was central midfield where we had so many injuries that led to the Pogba playing deeper issue and ultimately having to rely on McTominey. Herrera, Fellani and Carrick were injured for long periods and Pogba clearly wasn't that interested in dropping back to help out. Hopefully Fred has reduced this issue.

Also, if Pogba and Sanchez raise their game we are a completely different prospect going forward.

That's why we didn't conceed huge amounts in my opinion, but you need better quality cbs than what we have. Bailly, Smalling and Jones are dreadful with the ball at their feet, the difference having someone good on the ball coming out of the defence driving the team up the pitch makes it so much easier to build attacks.

WinnyThePoo · 09-08-2018 12:39PM

Lord TSC wrote: »

Simon Stone is pretty much bulletproof and he says we made an offers.

Remember, we still have 3 weeks to sell players. If we got a CB in today, we'd probably look to shift Rojo abroad in the next three weeks.

I would even take himself as a pinch of salt.

Lord TSC · 09-08-2018 12:42PM

TheDoc wrote: »

Has read to me all summer that the club are not comfortable in releasing the funds for this manager who has generally squandered a lot already with little return.

Best league finish in the post-Fergie era, as well as the Europa League the season before. I get you don't like Jose, but this goes back to the earlier discussion of people downplying what he's gotten out of the squad so far in a bid to make it feel like there's been zero progress....

Drumpot · 09-08-2018 12:42PM

threein99 wrote: »

That's why we didn't conceed huge amounts in my opinion, but you need better quality cbs than what we have. Bailly, Smalling and Jones are dreadful with the ball at their feet, the difference having someone good on the ball coming out of the defence driving the team up the pitch makes it so much easier to build attacks.

I am not disagreeing with you totally.

I just think it could just as easily be a very good season if Jose can work with the players he has and Martial/Pogba (both French oddly) can sort out whatever it is they need to do to get focused on performing for the club.

Think about it. Sanzez, Pogba and Martial were generally not at peak performance and we know they can all do better. Sanchez is different in that he looks like hes getting the head down and on the same page as the manager. If the club gets some momentum in the league top players (Pogba) get excited or an extra motivation when there might be something in it for them.

bangkok · 09-08-2018 12:44PM

Saying we moved for godin last week. Press only hearing about it now so its being reported

threein99 · 09-08-2018 12:45PM

Drumpot wrote: »

I am not disagreeing with you totally.

I just think it could just as easily be a very good season if Jose can work with the players he has and Martial/Pogba (both French oddly) can sort out whatever it is they need to do to get focused on performing for the club.

Think about it. Sanzez, Pogba and Martial were generally not at peak performance and we know they can all do better. Sanchez is different in that he looks like hes getting the head down and on the same page as the manager. If the club gets some momentum in the league top players (Pogba) get excited or an extra motivation when there might be something in it for them.

The names in our attack are amazing and it should be so much better, I just don't trust the manager to get it right. I've heard enough of his excuses to last a lifetime.

Drumpot · 09-08-2018 12:48PM

TheDoc wrote: »

Has read to me all summer that the club are not comfortable in releasing the funds for this manager who has generally squandered a lot already with little return.

The club want to act responsibly and they want to be more long term in their planning( not wanting to sell Pogba or Martial) but that requires a genuine implementation, and requires a coach, not a manager.

While we are the richest club in the world and can and should buy whoever we want etc., I do appreciate their being some due dilligence. Just because you "have" the money doesn't mean you just pay whatever.

It's that recklessness that can ruin clubs, and I'd like our club to be prudent.

So the likes of 80m for Maguire, yeah, that shouldn't be done. Nor the 60-70m reports for Sandro. Or the 70-80m for Perisic.

At the same time, inroads should have been made on that target list months ago.

I do sympathise with everyone involved. Manager wants who he wants and doesn't care about how much it costs. IF he doesn't get them, its ready made excuses. And look some of it is geniune as well.

Club are dealing in a realm where nobody needs to sell, we deal with the Premier League AND United Tax, and we have to cough up extraordinary amounts of money for smack bang average - good players.

I don't sympathise with everybody involved at all. The owners have taken over 1.2billion out of the club since they saddled it with crippling debt. Maybe if they hadn't done that the club wouldn't be struggling to get in targets to meet fans/managers expectations.

Seriously, I cant understand why any united fan cares if the club spends 20mi or 50mil on a player the team needs. Why are fans of the most valuable club in the world so focused on "value" for players ? Liverpool have broken records to buy in the targets their manager wanted, so why should we be desperate for the club to haggle over players ?

And it wont be the owners/woodward who get the sack if the team doesn't meet fans expectations.

Mokuba · 09-08-2018 12:49PM

If the manager was not going to be backed he should have been sacked.

Our 3 main targets for CB have not been brought in. Neither has our main target for the RW position, or our main target for the LB position.

And the deadwood still languishes at the club. Disgraceful window from the completely inept Woodward. Anyone who backs him must be related to him, because he is the biggest clown in football.

Drumpot · 09-08-2018 12:49PM

threein99 wrote: »

The names in our attack are amazing and it should be so much better, I just don't trust the manager to get it right. I've heard enough of his excuses to last a lifetime.

What has Jose done in his career that leads you to believe he has all of a sudden lost the ability to win leagues and champions leagues ?

If you are not sure then maybe the problem is our club. Jose has won the league in England in the last 5 seasons, what have our owners/CEO done in that period to trust them?

TheDoc · 09-08-2018 12:50PM

Lord TSC wrote: »

Best league finish in the post-Fergie era, as well as the Europa League the season before. I get you don't like Jose, but this goes back to the earlier discussion of people downplying what he's gotten out of the squad so far in a bid to make it feel like there's been zero progress....

There is just a genuine argument, even removing me entirely from it and my dislike for him, that he hasn't extracted anywhere near the maximum from this squad of players.

No one was celebrating finishing second. It was a slog,a grind and totally eclipsed by what happened during the course of the season.

You can by all means take the specifics and ignore all the other variables, but no one was celebrating finishing second, and I don't really get how anyone would or should be chuffed about it.

While opinions can shape if a person feels there has been progress, there is some definitives where we can say yes there was progress. As you say, Silverware and finishing second would point to progress in that respect.

Has the squad and the players "progressed"? Generally no.
Has the mood at the club improved since Van Gaal? Generally no.
Are we closer or better equipped to challenge and compete for the league or CL? Likely no.
Is it all the managers fault? No.

Lord TSC · 09-08-2018 12:52PM

TheDoc wrote: »

There is just a genuine argument, even removing me entirely from it and my dislike for him, that he hasn't extracted anywhere near the maximum from this squad of players.

No one was celebrating finishing second. It was a slog,a grind and totally eclipsed by what happened during the course of the season.

You can by all means take the specifics and ignore all the other variables, but no one was celebrating finishing second, and I don't really get how anyone would or should be chuffed about it.

While opinions can shape if a person feels there has been progress, there is some definitives where we can say yes there was progress. As you say, Silverware and finishing second would point to progress in that respect.

Has the squad and the players "progressed"? Generally no.
Has the mood at the club improved since Van Gaal? Generally no.
Are we closer or better equipped to challenge and compete for the league or CL? Likely no.
Is it all the managers fault? No.

Which is all perfectly fair.

My frustration is when people boil down their arguments to "he's achieved little". No. He's not achieved as much as we'd all want. But don't diminish what he actually has achieved.

TheDoc · 09-08-2018 12:55PM

Drumpot wrote: »

I don't sympathise with everybody involved at all. The owners have taken over 1.2billion out of the club since they saddled it with crippling debt. Maybe if they hadn't done that the club wouldn't be struggling to get in targets to meet fans/managers expectations.

Seriously, I cant understand why any united fan cares if the club spends 20mi or 50mil on a player the team needs. Why are fans of the most valuable club in the world so focused on "value" for players ? Liverpool have broken records to buy in the targets their manager wanted, so why should we be desperate for the club to haggle over players ?

And it wont be the owners/woodward who get the sack if the team doesn't meet fans expectations.

There is a well trodden history of

a) Clubs spending vicariously leading them into trouble.
b) Clubs spending there way back to former glories, that implodes on itself.

I probably also care because I personally believe the club needs to shift its foundations and structure. If someone doesn't believe that, then yeah they will just expect manager to want X and club to pay Y to get them.

I'm not desperate for the club to haggle. And it's not strictly about the money. It's about the general squad harmony and building process.

We did exactly what you mentioned in January bringing in Sanchez on massive money. It's clearly caused a ripple in terms of other players and their own salaries.
It completely ****ed Martial who was in fine form, to the point he wants to leave.
It put Rashfords involvement, which was working nicely with Martial, down to cameo appearances where he was generally poor for the second half of the season.
And it caused utter confusion and chaos tactically in the team. We signed someone the manager wanted with zero plan for him,

Now look that all might be fine this season, and Sanchez might work out and great. But prudent ownership would look at that and ask some questions.

Prudent owners ask questions of their managers. Sorry but your not in the real world if you, or any manager thinks, in 2018, they rock into a club and the owners are just an ATM machine.

Mokuba · 09-08-2018 12:55PM

TheDoc wrote: »

Has the squad and the players "progressed"? Generally no.
Has the mood at the club improved since Van Gaal? Generally no.
Are we closer or better equipped to challenge and compete for the league or CL? Likely no.
Is it all the managers fault? No.

I'd say we are closer considering we finished closer to first last season than at any point since we last won it. What are you on about exactly?

TheDoc · 09-08-2018 12:58PM

Should also say, I'm hopeful that our big players really step up this season. And if they hit form, and the team gels and operates as we all know it can, it could make up a massive shortfall in any signings or gaps there last season.

If we dont have stupid results, if the team steps up a level, it would be such a big , positive deal.

Sanchez, Pogba, Bailly, Fred, Lindelof, Shaw.

The likes of these really step to the plate and operate at a high level, it could bring the team up and on massively. Even just Pogba and Sanchez alone being top notch would be a massive boost. Sanchez was utter garbage when he joined and all throughout. He gets to any level he was operating at with Arsenal, that alone could be a significant jump in terms of attacking productivity.

Which was and is the broken part of this team. The attack. If that attack clicks and fires, think we will all be pleasently surprised with the results.

Might not have the defenders or midfielders the manager wants, but think he can get by with what he has.

Lord TSC · 09-08-2018 12:58PM

#MUFC continue to vigorously pursue deal for centre half, and have by no means given up hope of getting one of them across the line before 5pm. Dialogue still ongoing over Alderweireld, and contact over Godin and Maguire (Maddock)

adox · 09-08-2018 12:58PM

Lads I get the positivity thing and I`m also looking forward to the match tomorrow and cheering the team on but at the same time I`m not going to ignore the poor window the club have had and the managers disappointment with it and public calling out of Woodward on it.

Id be delighted to see us have a very good season and play a lot of exciting football but I just dont see it happening. I think we will finish top four but cant see us repeating a 2nd place finish. I just see stormy waters ahead with Jose becoming more and more disgruntled and gone before the season is out or next summer at the latest.

Call that being very negative but thats my laymans honest opinion on things. we are drifting further out from the fergie glory years and while they were never going to be repeated, i feel the club has hastened its downfall from those dizzy heights and is losing sight of them altogether rather than aiming to emulate them in some way or have them as a goal.

I really really hope I`m wide of the mark and talking sh!t but thats my honest opinion on it.

Trigger · 09-08-2018 12:58PM

https://twitter.com/munitedfrance/status/1027500213601284098?s=21

Craig Norwood: "Ed Woodward plans to hold the rights to live games from United and launch a Netflix-style application and hold world rights on the application." [Red Mancunian Podcast] #MUFC

Mokuba · 09-08-2018 12:59PM

TheDoc wrote: »

There is a well trodden history of

a) Clubs spending vicariously leading them into trouble.
b) Clubs spending there way back to former glories, that implodes on itself.

I probably also care because I personally believe the club needs to shift its foundations and structure. If someone doesn't believe that, then yeah they will just expect manager to want X and club to pay Y to get them.

I'm not desperate for the club to haggle. And it's not strictly about the money. It's about the general squad harmony and building process.

We did exactly what you mentioned in January bringing in Sanchez on massive money. It's clearly caused a ripple in terms of other players and their own salaries.
It completely ****ed Martial who was in fine form, to the point he wants to leave.
It put Rashfords involvement, which was working nicely with Martial, down to cameo appearances where he was generally poor for the second half of the season.
And it caused utter confusion and chaos tactically in the team. We signed someone the manager wanted with zero plan for him,

Now look that all might be fine this season, and Sanchez might work out and great. But prudent ownership would look at that and ask some questions.

Prudent owners ask questions of their managers. Sorry but your not in the real world if you, or any manager thinks, in 2018, they rock into a club and the owners are just an ATM machine.

Prudent owners?

More like parasites who have robbed the club blind and are throwing out a few band aids to keep us in Top 4.

Are you for real? Embarrassing stuff defending them. We could spend like PSG and still be financially comfortable. Buying a few players isn't going to bankrupt the club FFS. Our revenue is only growing!

And completely ironic that you talk about the board being prudent and being careful not to destabilise the squad when they have purchased players for years based on name with little input from the manager.

Lord TSC · 09-08-2018 01:00PM

adox wrote: »

Lads I get the positivity thing and I`m also looking forward to the match tomorrow and cheering the team on but at the same time I`m not going to ignore the poor window the club have had and the managers disappointment with it and public calling out of Woodward on it.

Id be delighted to see us have a very good season and play a lot of exciting football but I just dont see it happening. I think we will finish top four but cant see us repeating a 2nd place finish. I just see stormy waters ahead with Jose becoming more and more disgruntled and gone before the season is out or next summer at the latest.

Call that being very negative but thats my laymans honest opinion on things. we are drifting further out from the fergie glory years and while they were never going to be repeated, i feel the club has hastened its downfall from those dizzy heights and is losing sight of them altogether rather than aiming to emulate them in some way or have them as a goal.

I really really hope I`m wide of the mark and talking sh!t but thats my honest opinion on it.

I think more than anyone else, you probably mirror my exact feelings on everything right now.

But I have to try to stay positive.

Too much **** elsewhere in my life. I want to believe football will be an escape.

I bloody hated the last 7 months or so of the Van Gaal and Moyes eras. I really don't want to have another season where I'm getting angry watching something that I want to love. I just don't know if I have the energy.....

adox · 09-08-2018 01:00PM

TheDoc wrote: »

Should also say, I'm hopeful that our big players really step up this season. And if they hit form, and the team gels and operates as we all know it can, it could make up a massive shortfall in any signings or gaps there last season.

If we dont have stupid results, if the team steps up a level, it would be such a big , positive deal.

Sanchez, Pogba, Bailly, Fred, Lindelof, Shaw.

The likes of these really step to the plate and operate at a high level, it could bring the team up and on massively. Even just Pogba and Sanchez alone being top notch would be a massive boost. Sanchez was utter garbage when he joined and all throughout. He gets to any level he was operating at with Arsenal, that alone could be a significant jump in terms of attacking productivity.

Which was and is the broken part of this team. The attack. If that attack clicks and fires, think we will all be pleasently surprised with the results.

Might not have the defenders or midfielders the manager wants, but think he can get by with what he has.

I would say that Sanchez and Lindelof have shown real signs pre season that they will be much better players this season so that is positive going in.

TheDoc · 09-08-2018 01:01PM

Mokuba wrote: »

I'd say we are closer considering we finished closer to first last season than at any point since we last won it. What are you on about exactly?

How many points were be behind? I know people loved banding about the points total with "oh but in this past season we would have won it"

From the summer do you believe we have bridged that gap to city?

That is the general narrative running at the moment.

Personally, (and maybe I'm not being clear on this, appreciate I've been awol a lot this summer) I think if Pogba hits his level consistently, Sanchez performs to any sort of level and our attack clicks, we will bridge a significant portion of that gap from last season.

What's concerning me is the negativity around the place. And it seems to be lost in that while Liverpool for exmple (frequently hearing mooted as nearest challenger to City now) bought some nice shiney new players, everyone seems to be forgetting the squad we actually have, and the players that havn't been performing consistently or to a high level.

PhlegmyMoses · 09-08-2018 01:05PM

TheDoc wrote: »

How many points were be behind? I know people loved banding about the points total with "oh but in this past season we would have won it"

From the summer do you believe we have bridged that gap to city?

That is the general narrative running at the moment.

Personally, (and maybe I'm not being clear on this, appreciate I've been awol a lot this summer) I think if Pogba hits his level consistently, Sanchez performs to any sort of level and our attack clicks, we will bridge a significant portion of that gap from last season.

What's concerning me is the negativity around the place. And it seems to be lost in that while Liverpool for exmple (frequently hearing mooted as nearest challenger to City now) bought some nice shiney new players, everyone seems to be forgetting the squad we actually have, and the players that havn't been performing consistently or to a high level.

You think that the general narrative in here is that United have bridged the gap to City? I disagree completely, general narrative is that we absolutely have not.

Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2018/2019 [Mod note 31-Aug-18]

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