Are transexual women attractive to hetero men?

jonon9 · 07-08-2018 07:07PM

Beanntraigheach · 07-08-2018 07:08PM

Superficially, as an image/form, yes a (very convincing) transexual "woman" could be visually attractive to a heterosexual man.
But, while physical preferences will vary from man to man, at the most fundamental level, what a heterosexual man is attracted to in a potential mate is her femaleness, her being a woman.
Little could be more off-putting than maleness, however it's packaged.

LLMMLL · 07-08-2018 07:14PM

doylefe wrote: »

Does not compute.

If someone undergoes surgery to make themselves look like some celebrity, they have mental health issues. Same goes for trans people.

Except the APA recognise that being trans is not a mental health issue.

But sure, your opinion on mental health is more accurate than the American psychiatric associations.

07-08-2018 07:23PM

LLMMLL wrote: »

Except the APA recognise that being trans is not a mental health issue.

But sure, your opinion on mental health is more accurate than the American psychiatric associations.

Is there any wiggle room there? I mean if someone recognises the fact that they are a trans woman but want to present themselves as a woman, that would not be a mental illness, but to think that with hormones and surgery, you can become an actual biological woman, that could be an indication that there may be an underlying bit of a mental health issue?

Annasopra · 07-08-2018 07:33PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Is there any wiggle room there? I mean if someone recognises the fact that they are a trans woman but want to present themselves as a woman, that would not be a mental illness, but to think that with hormones and surgery, you can become an actual biological woman, that could be an indication that there may be an underlying bit of a mental health issue?

I dont think anyone ever said that trans women are biological women so your hypotheses makes no sense.

P_1 · 07-08-2018 07:45PM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Is there any wiggle room there? I mean if someone recognises the fact that they are a trans woman but want to present themselves as a woman, that would not be a mental illness, but to think that with hormones and surgery, you can become an actual biological woman, that could be an indication that there may be an underlying bit of a mental health issue?

Eh based on current medical thinking not really. Like some of what is said online by some trans people can appear a bit off the wall to others but that's them voicing their own perspective of things. Text is a bastard of a medium to convey ones thoughts in at times so maybe cut them a little bit of slack. Until you've walked a mile in someone's shoes and all that...

gormdubhgorm · 07-08-2018 07:49PM

Absolutely not for me. Any transgender woman always looks like an auld wan all dolled up at best, or a man in drag at worst.
The outsized hands and adam's apple don't do it for me at all.
I am sure there are some who might go for it but they would be few and far between.

_Brian · 07-08-2018 07:49PM

As long as nobody is being deceived then it’s all good.

Personally the fact that a woman was once a man would be a turn off for me.

Franz Von Peppercorn · 07-08-2018 07:51PM

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

Absolutely not for me. Any transgender woman always looks like an auld wan all dolled up at best, or a man in drag at worst.
The outsized hands and adams apple don't do it for me at all.
I am sure there are some who might go for it but they would be few and far between.

Ah. You need to google the Asian trans.

My friend says they pass.

07-08-2018 07:53PM

P_1 wrote: »

Eh based on current medical thinking not really. Like some of what is said online by some trans people can appear a bit off the wall to others but that's them voicing their own perspective of things. Text is a bastard of a medium to convey ones thoughts in at times so maybe cut them a little bit of slack. Until you've walked a mile in someone's shoes and all that...

No I agree and that is why I asked and I don't mean to offend anyone.

I can see that it is no longer classed as a mental illness to want to transition, but is there genuinely current medical thinking that if you think you are biologically a woman, then you can be one?

07-08-2018 07:58PM

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

I dont think anyone ever said that trans women are biological women so your hypotheses makes no sense.

Katelyn Jenner won woman of the year?
I've seen tonnes of trans people declaring "I am a woman" or "I am a man".

I wasn't quoting anyone specifically so I was wondering if people who genuinely thought they were biologically the opposite sex may be displaying signs of mental illness.

It wasn't an attack.

P_1 · 07-08-2018 07:58PM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

No I agree and that is why I asked and I don't mean to offend anyone.

I can see that it is no longer classed as a mental illness to want to transition, but is there genuinely current medical thinking that if you think you are biologically a woman, then you can be one?

Others are more educated in this than I am so if any factual errors are made here then by all means please correct me but as far as my understanding is it was recently declassified as a mental illness by the WHO however national health bodies such as the HSE have yet to follow in their footsteps.

I guess it depends on who's guidelines you are following as a medical health professional. If you're following the WHO then the answer is presumably yes but if you're following the HSE then its anybody's guess I think.

All in all it appears that even in the medical field it is a devicive topic which is really unfair on those who it impacts the most on when you think about it.

07-08-2018 07:59PM

P_1 wrote: »

Others are more educated in this than I am so if any factual errors are made here then by all means please correct me but as far as my understanding is it was recently declassified as a mental illness by the WHO however national health bodies such as the HSE have yet to follow in their footsteps.

I guess it depends on who's guidelines you are following as a medical health professional. If you're following the WHO then the answer is presumably yes but if you're following the HSE then its anybody's guess I think.

All in all it appears that even in the medical field it is a devicive topic which is really unfair on those who it impacts the most on when you think about it.

Thank you. I was getting mixed answers when I was looking into it myself.

cantdecide · 07-08-2018 08:05PM

I follow a trans youtuber than restores and builds guitars and by coincidence I found her making a speech about trans issues elsewhere where she says her partner is a cis-hetero man so I guess it can happen.

P_1 · 07-08-2018 08:07PM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Thank you. I was getting mixed answers when I was looking into it myself.

It really is a horrific mess and you can really understand why people who it impacts on can sometimes tend to lash out at people who are genuinely trying to get their heads around it when there is so much thrash out there that is basically denying their right to exist.

So much misunderstanding out there on both sides (albeit much more pronounced on one side to be fair) its tragic and so many suicides as a result.

Venom · 07-08-2018 08:13PM

P_1 wrote: »

It really is a horrific mess and you can really understand why people who it impacts on can sometimes tend to lash out at people who are genuinely trying to get their heads around it when there is so much thrash out there that is basically denying their right to exist.

So much misunderstanding out there on both sides (albeit much more pronounced on one side to be fair) its tragic and so many suicides as a result.

It wouldn't hurt their cause any if they stuck with just he/she and dropped the gazillion bloody pronouns.

somefeen · 07-08-2018 08:20PM

Venom wrote: »

It wouldn't hurt their cause any if they stuck with just he/she and dropped the gazillion bloody pronouns.

The vast majority of trans people only use he or she.
The weird pronouns are for the gender fluid people

P_1 · 07-08-2018 08:20PM

Venom wrote: »

It wouldn't hurt their cause any if they stuck with just he/she and dropped the gazillion bloody pronouns.

Ok this is what I dont get. What issue do people have with the gender neutral pronouns? Is it that they sound silly or is it something else? Not having a pop or anything it's just genuine curiosity

wexie · 07-08-2018 08:30PM

P_1 wrote: »

Ok this is what I dont get. What issue do people have with the gender neutral pronouns? Is it that they sound silly or is it something else? Not having a pop or anything it's just genuine curiosity

I don't have an issue with 'they/them' which seems to be a perfectly usable gender neutral pronoun and would be quite happy to use it.

But why all the other ones? Why where they made up? What's wrong with they/them? Why should we use them? What's the difference between 'ae' and 'ey' and 've', 'xe' and 'ze'?

I'm sorry but I can't bring myself to take any of that nonsense seriously.

He/she/it/they....that's all I need and until someone can give me some convincing answer to the questions above that's going to be unlikely to change.

P_1 · 07-08-2018 08:32PM

wexie wrote: »

I don't have an issue with 'they/them' which seems to be a perfectly usable gender neutral pronoun and would be quite happy to use it.

But why all the other ones? Why where they made up? What's wrong with they/them? Why should we use them? What's the difference between 'ae' and 'ey' and 've', 'xe' and 'ze'?

I'm sorry but I can't bring myself to take any of that nonsense seriously.

He/she/it/they....that's all I need and until someone can give me some convincing answer to the questions above that's going to be unlikely to change.

Yeah I'd be in agreement. Nothing wrong with using they but (and I do feel a bit shïtty for this) I cant see myself using zey and the like without struggling to keep a straight face

rgodard80a · 07-08-2018 09:23PM

Redpatio wrote: »

It's a very general question of course but think it could prompt and interesting discussion.

No.

But I imagine in Ireland/UK they begin treatment in adulthood when most of the masculine features are well established. Very hard to disguise their biological beginnings with make-up and a wig.

The Bishop Basher · 07-08-2018 09:59PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Thank you. I was getting mixed answers when I was looking into it myself.

I understand that the WHO are reclassifying it away from a mental illness but I don't get what they're changing it to ?

And why do they make the point of stating that the treatment remains the same despite the reclassification. Surely that means the condition requiring treatment remains the same.

I honestly get the desire for people to not want the stigma of a mental illness especially on top of everything else they're going through but I also think we don't do anyone any favours by ignoring reality and making **** up..

There has to be a mental health element to this..

skybox2014 · 07-08-2018 10:32PM

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

I dont think anyone ever said that trans women are biological women so your hypotheses makes no sense.

Riley Denis, Julia Serano and plenty on Twitter certainly make this claim on a regular basis.
Apparently sex is a 'social construct' and not a biological fact anymore.

gormdubhgorm · 07-08-2018 10:33PM

P_1 wrote: »

Yeah I'd be in agreement. Nothing wrong with using they but (and I do feel a bit shïtty for this) I cant see myself using zey and the like without struggling to keep a straight face

Why would you feel sh1tty? Its a joke.
In years to come people will be laughing at this type of stuff.
It has to have been invented by american loolaas it makes no sense whatsoever.
People pop out male or female.
If people want to chop bits off or add bits on, that is up to them.
But to try and create a whole language around it that is daft.

I mean how would you translate all them pro-nouns into Irish for example?
Stick a fada on it and hope for the best?

Also where does it stop would I be permitted too say 'yer man' or 'yer wan' ?
Or do I just last z's in it and hope for the best?
Example:
"The head on zer zan"

wexie · 07-08-2018 10:46PM

P_1 wrote: »

Yeah I'd be in agreement. Nothing wrong with using they but (and I do feel a bit shïtty for this) I cant see myself using zey and the like without struggling to keep a straight face

I can't help it, but everytime i see reference to 'ze' I automatically follow it with 'Germans' in my head

AtomicHorror · 07-08-2018 10:53PM

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

Why would you feel sh1tty? Its a joke.
In years to come people will be laughing at this type of stuff.
It has to have been invented by american loolaas it makes no sense whatsoever.
People pop out male or female.
If people want to chop bits off or add bits on, that is up to them.
But to try and create a whole language around it that is daft.

What's so difficult about calling people what they'd like to be called? We manage just fine with everyone having their own name, which could be any one of thousands we know, or one of millions we've never even heard before. It could be unpronounceable. It might be written with a different alphabet. We ask a person what they're named, then we call them that. If we get it wrong, they correct us and we say sorry and do it right next time. It's grand.

Compared to that a few extra pronouns is nothing.

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

I mean how would you translate all them pro-nouns into Irish for example?
Stick a fada on it and hope for the best?

How did Irish manage with the other thousands of new concepts that were invented after the language died and got put on life support? It was fine. Here you are ag surfail ar an idirlíon gan fadhb.

People are awful quick to invent problems with stuff rather than try to understand it.

07-08-2018 11:00PM

AtomicHorror wrote: »

What's so difficult about calling people what they'd like to be called? We manage just fine with everyone having their own name, which could be any one of thousands we know, or one of millions we've never even heard before. It could be unpronounceable. It might be written with a different alphabet. We ask a person what they're named, then we call them that. If we get it wrong, they correct us and we say sorry and do it right next time. It's grand.

Compared to that a few extra pronouns is nothing.

How did Irish manage with the other thousands of new concepts that were invented after the language died and got put on life support? It was fine. Here you are ag surfail ar an idirlíon gan fadhb.

People are awful quick to invent problems with stuff rather than try to understand it.

If my preferred pronoun was King or Ruler or something offensive like "Mohammed is gay" would you refer to me as my preferred pronouns?

You can't just create your own reality and expect everyone to accept it. Where does it end?

VonZan · 07-08-2018 11:12PM

P_1 wrote: »

Ok this is what I dont get. What issue do people have with the gender neutral pronouns? Is it that they sound silly or is it something else? Not having a pop or anything it's just genuine curiosity

I don't think there is a problem with the pronoun; it's the offence and the policing of language from some sections of the LGBT+ community that people have an issue with.

I have no issue with people identifying with whatever they want to identity with but if you look slightly like a woman and I happen to call you she then you shouldn't be offended by that. In the same vein if I know you and you identify with a different pronoun then I would have no issue with referring to you by whatever term you like but I don't believe I should be legally obliged to do so.

AtomicHorror · 07-08-2018 11:16PM

Deleted User wrote: »

If my preferred pronoun was King or Ruler or something offensive like "Mohammed is gay" would you refer to me as my preferred pronouns?

If transgender/genderfluid people ever decide to make their pronouns deliberately provocative or offensive, you might have a point. Since they haven't, you really don't.

Deleted User wrote: »

You can't just create your own reality and expect everyone to accept it. Where does it end?

Choosing a name is not creating your own reality. At most it's creating a label and identity for yourself. A pronoun is just a shortcut for a person's name, so it's the same deal.

The slippery slope argument is tired af. It's the conservative's easy argument against any and all change from the status quo.

hetuzozaho · 07-08-2018 11:23PM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

If my preferred pronoun was King or Ruler or something offensive like "Mohammed is gay" would you refer to me as my preferred pronouns?

You can't just create your own reality and expect everyone to accept it. Where does it end?

Suppose people could change their name to these things, seems to be going fine so far?

Are transexual women attractive to hetero men?

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