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Solar PV - is it worth it?

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  • Registered Users Posts: 799 ✭✭✭niallers1


      I received a quote for 4.13kw solar pv with 4.8kw (2*2.4kw) battery. With Grant comes in at 7k even (Includes VAT)The battery was 2,700 (includes vat)


  • Registered Users Posts: 799 ✭✭✭niallers1


      I received a quote for 4.13kw solar pv with 4.8kw (2*2.4kw) battery. With Grant comes in at 7k even (Includes VAT)The battery was 2,700 (includes vat)


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 18,958 ✭✭✭✭Shefwedfan


    niallers1 wrote: »
    • I received a quote for 4.13kw solar pv with 4.8kw (2*2.4kw) battery. With Grant comes in at 7k even (Includes VAT)The battery was 2,700 (includes vat)




    That after grant? Who gave that if you dont mind me asking?


  • Registered Users Posts: 799 ✭✭✭niallers1


    Shefwedfan wrote: »


    That after grant? Who gave that if you dont mind me asking?
    Don't think I can say name on forum


  • Registered Users Posts: 505 ✭✭✭alejandro1977


    niallers1 wrote: »
      I received a quote for 4.13kw solar pv with 4.8kw (2*2.4kw) battery. With Grant comes in at 7k even (Includes VAT)The battery was 2,700 (includes vat)
    is there really such a need for such a large battery; obviously if you want to go off-grid fine  but wouldn't it be useful to focus on smoothing out sunlight/power fluctuations and


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  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 38,688 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    is there really such a need for such a large battery; obviously if you want to go off-grid fine  but wouldn't it be useful to focus on smoothing out sunlight/power fluctuations and

    If your working during the day while panels are generating at their max, then it makes sense to store as much as you can for use later that evening.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 18,958 ✭✭✭✭Shefwedfan


    is there really such a need for such a large battery; obviously if you want to go off-grid fine but wouldn't it be useful to focus on smoothing out sunlight/power fluctuations and




    Part of the reason for battery, or what I was told

    During the winter you can fill the battery with night rate electricity. So during the day you can use the night rate and save also in regards to that...


    I dont know how much a 5kW battery would keep house ticking over but for a few hours maybe


  • Registered Users Posts: 799 ✭✭✭niallers1


    I believe the battery needs to be AC to allow you to store night rate electricity. The AC battery is more expensive than the DC battery


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 18,958 ✭✭✭✭Shefwedfan


    niallers1 wrote: »
    I believe the battery needs to be AC to allow you to store night rate electricity. The AC battery is more expensive than the DC battery


    Could be....something I did not ask....as I did not know :P:P


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,543 ✭✭✭wexfordman2


    niallers1 wrote: »
      I received a quote for 4.13kw solar pv with 4.8kw (2*2.4kw) battery. With Grant comes in at 7k even (Includes VAT)The battery was 2,700 (includes vat)

    Was that inc or exclusive of grant ?

    Cos otherwise its looking like 11k if you include the full grant


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  • Registered Users Posts: 799 ✭✭✭niallers1


    7k is price when grant is included/taken into account .


  • Posts: 21,179 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    What was the battery size again ? 2.7 Kwh ? that's practically going to be useless in Summer when it fills up quickly form a 4.13 Kwp array ! Dumping excess isn't viable in my opinion !


  • Registered Users Posts: 799 ✭✭✭niallers1


    2 * 2.4 kwh battery or 4.8 in total


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 18,958 ✭✭✭✭Shefwedfan


    niallers1 wrote: »
    2 * 2.4 kwh battery or 4.8 in total


    Everyone is quoting 5kWh. Anything bigger wil have to be a crashed Leaf and grabbing the battery off it


  • Posts: 21,179 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    I still think even a 5 Kwh battery is useless with a 4.13 kwp array. Don't get me wrong, it's better to store 5 Kwh than dump it but I feel a 4.13 Kwp system will generate far more than 5 Kwh worth of electricity in the Summer months per day, not every day, of course but I think significant energy will still have to be dumped.

    Good sunny Winter weather could also see a lot of energy dumped.

    It's ridiculous there's no push to make the ESB take more energy from Micro generation in the way of FIT.


  • Registered Users Posts: 799 ✭✭✭niallers1


    You could also divert to hot water tank with a diverter.

    We should see F.I.T. In the next couple of years. I believe this is coming down the road from E.U.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 18,958 ✭✭✭✭Shefwedfan


    niallers1 wrote: »
    You could also divert to hot water tank with a diverter.

    We should see F.I.T. In the next couple of years. I believe this is coming down the road from E.U.


    It will never happen under the EU puts a gun to our head....this backward country would prefer to ruin the countryside with turbines and fields of solar PV


  • Registered Users Posts: 65,085 ✭✭✭✭unkel


    Shefwedfan wrote: »
    It will never happen under the EU puts a gun to our head

    I hope they will. We need to take our head out of our arse in this dirty diesel, peat and solid fuel country

    Massive emissions fines are almost here for us the tax payer to cough up :(


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 38,688 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    I still think even a 5 Kwh battery is useless with a 4.13 kwp array. Don't get me wrong, it's better to store 5 Kwh than dump it but I feel a 4.13 Kwp system will generate far more than 5 Kwh worth of electricity in the Summer months per day, not every day, of course but I think significant energy will still have to be dumped.

    Good sunny Winter weather could also see a lot of energy dumped.

    It's ridiculous there's no push to make the ESB take more energy from Micro generation in the way of FIT.

    My 3kw system can generate up to 20kwh a day. Obviously we’ve had a sunnier few weeks though. But 10-13 on average is the normal since last September on decent days.

    Today was a bad day. Only 4kwh generated.

    The problem with saying a 5kwh battery is worthless, is the cost to go bigger and the size of the unit. You have to start thinking about where to put this battery.

    What would the average use be from 6pm to 6am for a typical house?
    5kwh would put a major dent in what you draw from the grid if you could fill that most days?

    Add to this an immersion divertor and if you get hot water and some storage then your laughing but I’d probably prioritize the battery storage as you can use that to turn on the immersion that evening if required.

    Today was the second day since April I’ve had to fire the gas boiler up to heat the water :(


  • Registered Users Posts: 65,085 ✭✭✭✭unkel


    kceire wrote: »
    My 3kw system can generate up to 20kwh a day. Obviously we’ve had a sunnier few weeks though. But 10-13 on average is the normal since last September on decent days.

    Today was a bad day. Only 4kwh generated.

    Sounds about right. I've only 1650wp but have generated on average about 6kWh per day over the last week (wasn't very sunny most days). Best day of the year would be about 10-12kWh I guess. Today just over 3kWh

    If going for the battery subsidy, I think I'll just go 2.4kWh initially as there is someone in the house most of the time during the day


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  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 90,965 Mod ✭✭✭✭Capt'n Midnight


    gally74 wrote: »
    Transmission losses 50 %
    Siemens are setting up transmisison lines twice that distance in China.

    Anyway on an EU wide grid you aren't transferring power from Spain to Ireland. It's power being offset sequentially from region to region.

    Either way chucking solar at Spain or Morocco might be used to offset our Koyoto fines.


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 38,688 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    unkel wrote: »
    Sounds about right. I've only 1650wp but have generated on average about 6kWh per day over the last week (wasn't very sunny most days). Best day of the year would be about 10-12kWh I guess. Today just over 3kWh

    If going for the battery subsidy, I think I'll just go 2.4kWh initially as there is someone in the house most of the time during the day

    I’d probably go with the cheapest option myself too, just to get going with hopefully the option to simply upgrade the battery at a later date.


  • Registered Users Posts: 65,085 ✭✭✭✭unkel


    Apparently you can. If I were you I'd do the same thing to get the most out of your diverter. And take full advantage of the subsidy. Do you know if your inverter can handle a battery or do you have to upgrade it? Seems like a bit of a waste to have to change the almost brand new inverter for a much more expensive one. I'm hoping the battery can be setup completely separate from the solar system for reasonable money.


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 38,688 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    unkel wrote: »
    Apparently you can. If I were you I'd do the same thing to get the most out of your diverter. And take full advantage of the subsidy. Do you know if your inverter can handle a battery or do you have to upgrade it? Seems like a bit of a waste to have to change the almost brand new inverter for a much more expensive one. I'm hoping the battery can be setup completely separate from the solar system for reasonable money.

    I’m hoping it can be still used. The installers have constantly kept me in the loop with their hybrid battery storage, so I assume it can based on that but I better get a definitive answer from them.


  • Posts: 21,179 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    kceire wrote: »
    My 3kw system can generate up to 20kwh a day. Obviously we’ve had a sunnier few weeks though. But 10-13 on average is the normal since last September on decent days.

    Today was a bad day. Only 4kwh generated.

    The problem with saying a 5kwh battery is worthless, is the cost to go bigger and the size of the unit. You have to start thinking about where to put this battery.

    What would the average use be from 6pm to 6am for a typical house?
    5kwh would put a major dent in what you draw from the grid if you could fill that most days?

    Add to this an immersion divertor and if you get hot water and some storage then your laughing but I’d probably prioritize the battery storage as you can use that to turn on the immersion that evening if required.

    Today was the second day since April I’ve had to fire the gas boiler up to heat the water :(

    The problem is that it's substantial energy wasted when the battery is full, if as you say you generate up to 20 Kwh on a sunny day that's a huge loss of energy , dumping it to hot water is fine but who has even close to 20 Kwh of storage in their hot water tank ? I'd say 0.

    Before I went EV our daily average house consumption was about 6.5 Kwh per day which I'm told was good.

    Only sane way to use solar is FIT, send to the grid all the excess , none is wasted and you buy back only what you need.

    Obviously we don't have such a system so in my opinion solar PV is not viable at this time.

    Our daily average now is about 15 Kwh per day.

    So run by me again, how much was the 4.3 Kwp array with battery including install + grant ?


  • Registered Users Posts: 65,085 ✭✭✭✭unkel


    The problem is that it's substantial energy wasted when the battery is full, if as you say you generate up to 20 Kwh on a sunny day that's a huge loss of energy , dumping it to hot water is fine but who has even close to 20 Kwh of storage in their hot water tank ? I'd say 0.

    20kWh will probably be only on an extremely sunny day. More typical on a good day is 12kWh. Which is only just above the average national consumption. A 3kwp south facing array in the Dublin area produces about 2900kWh per year. Average consumption is 3500kWh per year (without heating your water)

    There won't be much going to waste here once kceire has even a small battery


  • Registered Users Posts: 23,399 ✭✭✭✭ted1


    niallers1 wrote: »
      I received a quote for 4.13kw solar pv with 4.8kw (2*2.4kw) battery. With Grant comes in at 7k even (Includes VAT)The battery was 2,700 (includes vat)
    What’s your end goal ?
    Save money? Dump 7k off your mortgage?

    Save planet ? Invest the 7k in a renewable energy company


  • Registered Users Posts: 65,085 ✭✭✭✭unkel


    Almost 10k for a 4kwp system plus 4.8kWh battery doesn't seem a good price at all tbh (7k after subsidy). But if you are going to stay in your house for several decades it will pay for itself and after that you will have substantial savings. Li-Ion batteries last a lot longer than people thought they would. And prices are coming down, you can add more later.


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 38,688 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    The problem is that it's substantial energy wasted when the battery is full, if as you say you generate up to 20 Kwh on a sunny day that's a huge loss of energy , dumping it to hot water is fine but who has even close to 20 Kwh of storage in their hot water tank ? I'd say 0.

    Before I went EV our daily average house consumption was about 6.5 Kwh per day which I'm told was good.

    Only sane way to use solar is FIT, send to the grid all the excess , none is wasted and you buy back only what you need.

    Obviously we don't have such a system so in my opinion solar PV is not viable at this time.

    Our daily average now is about 15 Kwh per day.

    So run by me again, how much was the 4.3 Kwp array with battery including install + grant ?

    20kwh would be rare enough.
    FIT is the best option, I agree but it ain’t happen so we got to work with what we have.

    I actually dont know what my daily use is, can I work it’s out by checking the meter figures?
    I would only dump about 3-4kwh to the immersion on a good day Andy that gives me a full tank of hot water (300L new, highly insulated cylinder).

    Also not sure on complete costing for a 4.3 system but my 3kw system including the immersion divertor cost me €2900 supplied and fitted while I was renovating my house last year. I didn’t do it for the financial gain, although it simply nice to save a little, I done it for the environment if I’m honest and to do my little bit as corny as it sounds.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,543 ✭✭✭wexfordman2


    ted1 wrote: »
    What’s your end goal ?
    Save money? Dump 7k off your mortgage?

    Save planet ? Invest the 7k in a renewable energy company

    What if his objective is both ?

    What if he has no mortgage?

    What if his mortgage interest is costing less then the saving he would generate from solar PV ? Is it not a good investment then ?


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